BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: xrayjay on May 28, 2014, 02:38:54 PM
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I noticed the house I bowl league have upgraded to a kegel machine. I have not bowled league there this last winter, but I've been practicing there recently.
Well, yesterday I noticed the conditioner felt a little dense compared to the other house known to put down more oil. The house with more volume has a thinner feel to it.
Is there any affect with transition/carry down with the two different conditioner's viscosity? assuming all lanes surface, ball, rev, line, ect... are the same...
Thinner more volume vs. thicker less volume...I think thicker as a greater chance of carry down...?? this is my own assesdment, so excuse me if I am mistaken.
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xrayjay,
I would ask the house what brand of oil they were using. Kegel now has 2 new oils, Fire and Ice. Ice is what they use at the USBC Open now. It doesn't break down as quickly as Defender did, so it may be what they have, giving you what appears to be higher volume than the other house. The newest Kegel Machines can even put down a combination of both oils, like a hybrid of the two....you put both in the machine and it mixes them together at the time of application. If I had to take a guess, I'd bet they switched to Ice when they got the new machine.
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It's not as simple as just viscosity determining how an oil will play. There is a lot of information on Kegel's site if you want to learn about it.
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The biggest different in oils changed in 99 or 2000 when additives started showing up in the oils...the way we used to look at oils were more comparable to mineral oils...much lighter...now today we use viscosity which is much more in line with motor oils...the livelier the additives the more lively they can be on the lane as well as how it is applied plus how long it may be between cleaning and applying plus how long anyone bowls on them after application. Not as simple as it used to be...
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I believe they have a flex machine....I'll ask what oil they're using.. It's just interesting cause this house tends to be on the drier side with their old summit machine and wick problems. I struggled a lot on dry lanes and I'm hoping things will be different. Though it might not even matter, I bowled second shift..
I'll check out the kegel site just to see what's new...
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The biggest different in oils changed in 99 or 2000 when additives started showing up in the oils...the way we used to look at oils were more comparable to mineral oils...much lighter...now today we use viscosity which is much more in line with motor oils...the livelier the additives the more lively they can be on the lane as well as how it is applied plus how long it may be between cleaning and applying plus how long anyone bowls on them after application. Not as simple as it used to be...
"Not simple as it used to be" that's why it's interesting ;) much more interesting than finger weight...hehehe
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Also keep in mind, bowling league the condition created is built to last 5-6 games depending on size - 3,4, or 5 man and generally won't see a lot of change per sey...it's tournament conditions is where you see change throughout
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Also the way the condition is attacked...either more so via the friction as opposed to the conditioner transition will show up differently as well as pace
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My home house started using Ice oil about 6 weeks ago. Compared to the previous oil (no idea what it was they probably got it used from the woks of a local Chinese restaurant, knowing how cheap Bowlmor/AMF is these days),
Ice seems a lot slicker, lower friction.
I no longer need to think of using urethanes as an option or my B/G Centaur (unless I sand it dull). In general, whie our house wall always seemed to be a wet/dry, now it seems even more so with more backend and more skid.
Most telling is my captain's ball reaction. He fires it hard down the 5/10 board. With Ice he is constantly in danger of leaving 5/7s and 8-10s. I had to keep reminding him to stay under and behind the ball to insure it gets into a roll. Our season just finished and he dropped from 220 to about 215 in these last 6 weeks. That's a lot over 90-95 game season.
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just got word that they use the flex walker and Ice oil too. Yesterday the backends were not too jumpy, just a little o/u, and it did play pretty quick to start. (I used a Freak'n Frantic low flare layout 5.5" p to axis, oob cover )
I normally play the track or just inside of it at this house, but I found myself piping it up between 1st and 2nd arrow. If I came around the ball, I did see three 5 7's and one 8 10, and deflections. When I moved left and got softer, I left solid 9's.....
The lanes are SPL's just for info add ons....
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I use low vis oil in our wick machine it flows better . I believe the flex machine has multi tanks so you can use different oils .
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I use low vis oil in our wick machine it flows better . I believe the flex machine has multi tanks so you can use different oils .
I don't think it's a flex they are using. I asked one of the managers what kegel machine they are using and he said it was a walker. He wasn't sure if it's a flex or the older model. Also, they are trying different patterns with it this summer to prepare for winter.
My assessment the other day after practice was similar to what he said bowlers have seen since the upgrade, and that was carry down. Carry down was often. He mention possibly shortening the pattern.
It'll be interesting to see how it is when I return after a year off. Whatever they put down for next season is already on upgrade from their old patterns with the summit.
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I use low vis oil in our wick machine it flows better . I believe the flex machine has multi tanks so you can use different oils .
I don't think it's a flex they are using. I asked one of the managers what kegel machine they are using and he said it was a walker. He wasn't sure if it's a flex or the older model. Also, they are trying different patterns with it this summer to prepare for winter.
My assessment the other day after practice was similar to what he said bowlers have seen since the upgrade, and that was carry down. Carry down was often. He mention possibly shortening the pattern.
It'll be interesting to see how it is when I return after a year off. Whatever they put down for next season is already on upgrade from their old patterns with the summit.
The problem my center had with the Ice oil was carrydown, especially in the beginning of fall when it was still hot out. There was too many complaints so they switched back to Defense-S. We use Kegels Ion to oil
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Xrayjay,
The comments make sense based on the characteristics of Ice, it doesn't disappear as quickly as older oils so it can only move, left or right or carry down. It sounds like your center is doing it right though, trying different patterns during the summer to see which one(s) give them the shot they like. You may need multiple ones ready though, as the change in temperature from Summer to Winter will effect how the patterns break down and one that looked good in Summer may not work as well in the Winter.
Another option you could mention to them is dialing back the volume a little, that may help reduce carrydown as well.
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Xrayjay,
The comments make sense based on the characteristics of Ice, it doesn't disappear as quickly as older oils so it can only move, left or right or carry down. It sounds like your center is doing it right though, trying different patterns during the summer to see which one(s) give them the shot they like. You may need multiple ones ready though, as the change in temperature from Summer to Winter will effect how the patterns break down and one that looked good in Summer may not work as well in the Winter.
Another option you could mention to them is dialing back the volume a little, that may help reduce carrydown as well.
That's what I thought too, temp changes from summer and winter will be a factor that's for sure here.
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The older pad machines do not handle the higher viscosity oils well that have become most common with todays machines like Ion, and Flex. I don't know if Kegel even makes a pad machine anymore.