Author Topic: VISE IT legality (Read 5586 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** December 30, 2009, 07:39:50 AM »

How does the VISE IT system get around the "no interior void" USBC rule? I believe I read that the USBC specifies that when using a slug you must drill through the bottom so that there isn''''t any isolated voids in the ball. If you didn''''t drill through and there was a gap between the hole bottom and the slug then there would be a void making the ball illegal. Well in the IT system it looks like there would be a void around the female screw molley that is in the bottom of the hole once the slug is screwed into it.
Can somebody that is familiar with the IT system give me some insight on this?
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Edited on 12/30/2009 4:43 PM

Edited on 12/30/2009 4:53 PM

icefiction · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2010, 05:22:32 PM »

it does not, maybe they should add that as well. The only point I was trying to make is that the Vise system has a void built into the system, which means that when used as intended the Vise system utilizes a void. One could argue that the bowling ball was not designed with the void so if a void occurs after drilling it was not the intent of the manufacturer of that product.
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BeansProShop · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2010, 07:10:00 PM »

I am sure the USBC has done testing of the VISE IT before giving it the OK approval. Their determination of the product will supercede(sp)any other rules. I am guessing because there is only (1) contant way to install the IT was the deciding factor. Also, is it really a true void. Once the slug is screwed into the ball. How much void space is there???

Don't forget...This is what our sanction fees are used for. The testing they did on these contraptions....

Beans
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scotts33 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 02, 2010, 07:15:54 PM »

quote:
Don't forget...This is what our sanction fees are used for. The testing they did on these contraptions....

Beans,

I'd agree but then USBC also charges the manufacturer to approve the product....yes?
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Scott

purduepaul · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2010, 09:34:22 PM »

There is no interior void in the product. The inner cylinder that locks the Vice IT into place has a hole in it so if you wanted to you could inspect the bottom of the drilled hole. Thus why it is USBC and PBA legal. I have used the product extensively and it is a great product.
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"Oops, Looks like we are going to need another timmy." -Dr Lizard, "Dinosaurs"

J_w73 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2010, 09:10:40 AM »

quote:
There is no interior void in the product. The inner cylinder that locks the Vice IT into place has a hole in it so if you wanted to you could inspect the bottom of the drilled hole. Thus why it is USBC and PBA legal. I have used the product extensively and it is a great product.
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"Oops, Looks like we are going to need another timmy." -Dr Lizard, "Dinosaurs"

Can you please clarify what you are saying? Where and in what piece is this hole that you are talking about? And why would this be legal?
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2010, 09:55:41 AM »

Here is the answer from the USBC.. I guess there is a sufficient hole in the bottom of the slug and slug-it combo that goes into the void

Thanks for your question. As far as a void, that is defined in the back of the spec manual as "a manufactured cavity with purposeful size, dimensions and/or location within an object." The spec would be similar to that as applied for a thumb slug. There is no requirement to minimum size of the hole on the bottom of the device. And while small, there is still a clearance through the bottom of the insert for review purposes.

On a similar note: if a thumb hole is drilled into a slug, the clearance through the slug, although most do it, can be any size. If you drill a thumb of 1" into a 1 1/4" slug, you can then drill a small hole through the bottom of the slug to expose the underside. What matters is it's drilled out, but doesn't have to be the same diameter as the thumb hole. when you drill it out, there is no longer a void, even if it's a relatively small hole.

Hopefully this makes sense, but I do understand your concern.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

icefiction · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2010, 12:25:03 PM »

that does not answer the space surrounding the thumb slug after an inner is screwed in place. The sleeve at the top of the whole makes a snug fit up top but underneath that space is a void in between that ring and the bottom of the hole.
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stormed1 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2010, 01:20:13 PM »

It is no different than drilling the thumbhole deep to remove excessive thumb weight. Using a 1 1/4 slug for an example you would drill the normal depth and then use a 1 tnch bit to go deeper to remove excessive thumb weigh t. The "shelf" created by the smaller bit wouls linit the slug from sinking. and you would have a "void" under the slug
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icefiction · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2010, 01:30:26 PM »

i am refering to the void/gap between the inner slug and the inner edge of the drilled hole, located around the width of the hole, the length of the black sleeve at the top and the bottom of the hole.
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icefiction · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2010, 01:32:49 PM »

just got my email from usbc, all they said was it is approved. Im glad they really took the time to read my email.
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J_w73 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2010, 02:02:27 PM »

quote:
It is no different than drilling the thumbhole deep to remove excessive thumb weight. Using a 1 1/4 slug for an example you would drill the normal depth and then use a 1 tnch bit to go deeper to remove excessive thumb weigh t. The "shelf" created by the smaller bit wouls linit the slug from sinking. and you would have a "void" under the slug
--------------------
Arsenal: Mega Friction, S-75, Break Point x 2, Break x2,Clutch x 2,Maniac,Awakening,Lunatic,SX-1,Link,Hype urethane,Global Globe, 14# golden globe

http://s485.photobucket.com/albums/rr220/stormed1/My%20Arsenal/
Bowlingboards.com

that is why when drilling a slug you must drill a hole (no matter how small) through the slug so that there will not be an included void under the slug..
the hole through the slug makes the two areas connected..

the "connection" of the open areas with the IT is still sketchy to me though.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 05, 2010, 02:06:50 PM »

quote:
just got my email from usbc, all they said was it is approved. Im glad they really took the time to read my email.
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HAHA... that is the usual response.. just statements with no examination of details or responses to the question details.. just an overall answer that sometimes might or might not apply to the original question... Surprised I got more of an answer.
That is what I got when I gave a specific scenario about a bowler going over the line and touching the bowling surface after throwing his 12th strike for a 300.. never would give me a definite answer even though the scenario was defined..said since they weren't there they could not make a ruling and that it would have to go to the league board.. I asked for their ruling in a "hypothetical" scenario and they still wouldn't make a decision.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 05, 2010, 02:14:11 PM »

quote:
i am refering to the void/gap between the inner slug and the inner edge of the drilled hole, located around the width of the hole, the length of the black sleeve at the top and the bottom of the hole.
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I guess they are saying there isn't a hole that is surrounded in the ball that would qualify as a void.. they are saying all voids have access to the outside of the ball so are therefore legal..
the hole in the bottom of the slug that is plugged with the security cap is still considered a hole that vents the area not making it a void
atleast that is how I read it..

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

icefiction · « **Reply #29 on:** January 05, 2010, 02:15:04 PM »

im not sure if im making myself clear or not, the void i see is the space between the outer edge of the inserted end and the hole, installed at the top of the hole is the black sleeve which does not go all the way down. So i believe the void is that gap between the outside edge of the insert and the edge of the whole, at the depths below the black sleeve. Does anyone understand what i am saying?
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #30 on:** January 05, 2010, 02:20:47 PM »

quote:
im not sure if im making myself clear or not, the void i see is the space between the outer edge of the inserted end and the hole, installed at the top of the hole is the black sleeve which does not go all the way down. So i believe the void is that gap between the outside edge of the insert and the edge of the whole, at the depths below the black sleeve. Does anyone understand what i am saying?

Since this area is exposed whenever you remove the thumb insert, and because it is so small that it won't have any discernable affect on either ball reaction or providing an area to insert another foreign material, I guess it doesn't really matter enough for the USBC to outlaw it. You guys seem way too concerned about this when it's something that, quite frankly, doesn't make one damn bit of difference.

Author Topic: VISE IT legality (Read 5586 times)

J_w73

VISE IT legality

icefiction

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BeansProShop

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scotts33

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purduepaul

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J_w73

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J_w73

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icefiction

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stormed1

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icefiction

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icefiction

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J_w73

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J_w73

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J_w73

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icefiction

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Dan Belcher

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