BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: 12XSECH on September 27, 2013, 07:19:57 AM
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Since the house knew there was an issue with the lanes from many complaints from bowlers other then myself.....They put down an actual pattern and will keep it for the rest of the season. They are using the Kegel High Street pattern as the house shot now. So, for the morons that said I was just complaining..I guess this AMF house put out a real pattern just for me! WOW, I didnt know I had that kind of pull with AMF. I still cant believe that they did this just because I didnt like the bone dry condition.
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At least you now know it has nothing to do with AMF/Bowlmor. That should make you feel better.
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SPM,
People were going to quit the league it was so dry. The manager took the leagues complaints and Im pretty sure he had to go to district management to get the ok to add more oil. Either way, I'm pretty happy that problem is fixed. Now...on Saturdays and Sundays they dont turn the lights on anymore.
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They put down an actual pattern and will keep it for the rest of the season. They are using the Kegel High Street pattern as the house shot now. So, for the morons that said I was just complaining..I guess this AMF house put out a real pattern just for me!
As opposed to a "non-actual" or "false" pattern? ;)
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SPM,
People were going to quit the league it was so dry. The manager took the leagues complaints and Im pretty sure he had to go to district management to get the ok to add more oil. Either way, I'm pretty happy that problem is fixed. Now...on Saturdays and Sundays they dont turn the lights on anymore.
I used to manage an AMF house. I still bowl in an AMF/Bowlmor house. I have bowled in numerous AMF houses. In all my travels I have not encountered 2 AMF houses with the same shot or at least 2 shots that played the same. The notion that AMF dictates to every center a specific shot or a mandate that says, "Thou shalt not put more than X ml of oil" is preposterous. We never had to get "permission" to adjust our shot. We only put out a shot that OUR bowlers wanted to see.
In my eyes, your situation is one where the people responsible for putting out the shot perhaps hadn't actually bowled on the shot. They didn't know where all of the griping was from. To them, nothing had changed. But any general manager (or some facility managers in AMF's case) worth his salt would listen to his customer base, investigate the issue, and make changes as needed. And that is what seems to have happened.
There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion in a professional manner to the people who make the decisions. As for those on this website, they have heard numerous times of bowlers complaining about how dry a shot is and the only equipment they have are oil eating hook monsters. And after these numerous bowlers finally get a ball designed for the conditions they face, they realize their mistake and invariably come back here saying how a Brunswick Slingshot or Storm Tropical Breeze or "insert lighter oil ball here" has saved their season and made bowling fun again. So hopefully you can see where they were coming from, even if it was a little harsh at times.
I wish you the best of luck the rest of the season and I'm glad the shot is better suited to the customer base at your bowling center. A GM wants nothing more.
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As for those on this website, they have heard numerous times of bowlers complaining about how dry a shot is and the only equipment they have are oil eating hook monsters.
Such was this case exactly if I recall correctly. I think OP mentined hook monsters and a Wrecker (as the weakest in his arsenal). Thus the multiple suggestions to get a weak / mild piece.
"But they were polished!" :P
Regardless, he got his condition so that is nice for the customer. Now he can go bowling "for real" on that increased volume THS, with "real equipment".
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The shot at our AMF center is not dry. Pattern is a little longer now with a bit more volume. Still do not like the 2 foot buffer at the beginning, but with the longer pattern, not as much of a factor now. Kegel machine with Fire Oil. Heard that Kegel gave them some pattern downloads for the 2 foot buffer and playable shot. Not confirmed, just what I heard.
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Good to see that you got the condition you wanted! Now you don't have to adjust or drill different gear. Or learn to play the lane a different way, or release it different. Now only if you could get that silly thing fixed about having to move your feet left and right on the approach fixed so you never need to adjust
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Have to agree with Mainzer, learn the sport.
Next week it will be too much oil, then what another meeting?
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mainzer,. It wasnt a matter of adjusting. It was a matter of poor conditions..PERIOD.
Never said anything about being on AMFs side dude.
Adjustments are part of the game, I struggle something firce with lighter oil in the heads but I don't come on here and whine I make the adjustments make the spares strike when I can and do the best I can.
The sport is based off of who can make the best adjustments, I would suggest not calling me names because you only make yourself look kinda silly and take my advice and work on getting better. Bowling needs more good young bowlers you could potentially be one, it seems you have the passion for it.
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This isn't the non-moderated forum. Watch the personal attacks and language.
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as bowlers we love bowling,to improve,to bowl on all the neat patterns that are promoted to test our skill.to buy the hi tech equipment and expert layouts and advice. bowling coaches and expert pro shop staff just trying to make a living doing what they love to do.
as bowlers we really don't care for bolmore's lack of respect for league bowling and serious bowlers. they care about restaurants and bars and simply the bottom line.they are looking to cater to non bowlers that really don't care about the fore mentioned or heritage of the sport.
the way people on this board,ps opps,coaches,long time bowlers react to this topic is very sad.
don't promote your equipment,pro shop,advice if it just becomes slanderous statements.
I don't need equipment or advice to bowl on dirt,just my old plastic and urethane works perfect. and maybe its for the better. don't need so many experts and pro shops any more.
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Quote from 12X:
I guess this AMF house put out a real pattern just for me! WOW, I didnt know I had that kind of pull with AMF. I still cant believe that they did this just because I didnt like the bone dry condition.
See your special and didn't know it! I tend to believe the management really didn't know how bad/dry the lane condition was, until he heard or received numerous complaints. We try to keep the bowlers happy and want them to have a good time and bowl well. Just my $.02, Bruce
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Theres a few people on here like mainzer and northface that think they know it all. They also think its ok to bowl in a league on poor conditions. The volume of the 1st 2 weeks was less then what a center puts out for glow bowling. If anybody accepts those conditions and say "adjust" then you will accept anything that people tell you to do. Its called being a wimp and bending over because your a mouse and take any piece of cheese that someone tosses to you. If I know something isnt right, I'm not accepting it and that was the feeling of plenty of the league bowlers. But these other guys on here will bowl on anything because their "real bowlers"...More then likely just panzies in real life and when someone tells them to jump, they ask "how high?'
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Poor conditions make you a better bowler.
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How fantastic for you and all the other crybabies. You chose to bowl on one of the easier Recreational shots in the Kegel library of patterns, 44 ft of oil, 8:1 ratio, a nice heavy wall of China to allow you guys to spray and pray at will.
You now get to come in and know exactly what hook-in-a-box ball to throw, from where on the approach to stand, how much speed to put on it, what hand position to use, where to target your breakpoint, etc. every week! Oh, the challenge must be spine tingling. I wonder who you and the other hacks will bitch to when the day to day humidity and temps in the bowling center differ and affect the shot? The National Weather Service.
Bravo on setting up the sport of bowling to take yet another shot directly in the gut. Please spare us any more details of this league. It'd be more interesting watching and hearing about a youth league.
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Poor conditions may make you and better bowler as you and I know, but most league bowlers want to have fun and score. I put out a sign up sheet for a sport shot league and had three guys sign up and they didn't know what a sport shot was. We had 20 bowlers the year before and a lot complained and quit, but the bowler that wanted the challenge stayed and learned. Being in a small center in a small town, we don't have the luxury of pulling bowlers from a larger area. We have to cater to the bowlers we have and most don't want a tough shot, but area! Just my $.02, Bruce
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Good points bat, but just the opposite around here. We have a massive PBAX league on Monday nights we have a waiting list to get in! People dig the challenge.
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Our Monday PBAX league has been around for a while now. First time ever, a full 8 teams (32 bowlers). We even have a waiting list. Took some time, but a few of the bowlers said that they were tired of averaging huge on the house shot and wanted a bigger challenge. Encouraging.
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Build it and they will come. The ones that can't check their egos at the door are the ones that will never join your PBAX league, they'll bowl on a Kegel Recreation pattern (THS) week after week and think they're "bowling".
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Build it and they will come. The ones that can't check their egos at the door are the ones that will never join your PBAX league, they'll bowl on a Kegel Recreation pattern (THS) week after week and think they're "bowling".
Yes!
Over the summer I averaged just shy of 193 (good for second high in that PBAX!) on some flat and VERY tough shots and after 5 weeks and a good start of a dry THS I'm at 233.
I challenge someone to explain why my 233 THS avg is more of an accomplishment (HINT: it isn't) OR "more real" bowling.
A LOT more work and shot / spare making went into that 193 sport avg. High average was 200 and that was by a regional player who has been on a national telecast. Difficult flat patterns = real bowling.
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All of this talk about PBAX bowling has me thinking. Didn't 12 say that he averaged something like 210 on PBA conditions?
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He claims he did, yet he walks around with 5 hook monsters and says things like "I was standing where I stand for my 10 pin shot for strike ball". Something doesn't add up.
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He claims he did, yet he walks around with 5 hook monsters and says things like "I was standing where I stand for my 10 pin shot for strike ball". Something doesn't add up.
And why bowl sport league where your average will be knocked down 20 or 30 pins, makes it hard to put them big 8s up on the board.
And while I was thinking that he averages 217 in regular league but 210 in a PBAX? Thinking the patterns are not being laid down properly, maybe the house isn't pulling tapes and sending them in or not fixing the mistakes
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Great post and discussion when we talk about what can make us and others better at the sport we love! I bowl with a guy that doesn't practice and didn't bowl all summer, but complains after every shot. Did I mention that this is going to be a long season? lol Just my $.02, Bruce
Plus, I hate all the handicap everybody thinks they need when they're bowling on china!
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2 years on sport ......190 and 197...last couple of years on house condition 226, 217 and 214. Also I didnt ask the house for the high street pattern. All I and the league members wanted was for there to be oil.........period. THEY decided to put out high street which I'm happy with and so is the league. I used the Wrecker on it and shot 610....Not great.
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Sorry, late to the party here, but here are my thoughts:
12X - so the lanes were dry, you have to learn to adjust. If you want to be a competitive bowler, you need equipment for all conditions. For almost a whole season, in my scratch league in Texas, I threw a Urethane Sumo because the lanes were drier. Did my average suffer, yes. But I thought I threw the ball better that year than the year before when I averaged quite a bit higher. The Urethane made me become more accurate to try and carry better. You could have done the same or even go to polyester if needed. You can give your opinions/complaints to the center, as long as it was done in a courteous manner, but take the opportunity while it is there to become a better bowler.
For those that have full PBAX leagues, who do you do it? We have a Sports/PBAX league here and we struggle to find bowlers. I haven't bowled a Winter league on anything but a Sports shot since I have had the chance to bowl in this league. I have seen my average go up from 197 two years ago, to 203 last year. I am hoping for another increase this year as well. I love the challenge and know I am becoming a better bowler, but we can't seem to get that across to others. They want their higher scores from THS (even though the THS in this house isn't super easy). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Jorge I uses an two piece Black-U-Dot if they too dry. Just like you said it make you more accurate I went from shooting 240 plus with an seven bagger to leaving 8 ten pins 1 four -nine with one strike played safe because my doubles partner was shooting so good didn't want to have any opens other than the one four-nine.
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I love the challenge and know I am becoming a better bowler, but we can't seem to get that across to others. They want their higher scores from THS (even though the THS in this house isn't super easy). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Move. :)
I live in the Los Angeles area, and even with one of the largest concentrations of people in the US, there are only a handful of good regular season scratch and PBAX leagues. It's hard attracting bowlers to our 650 Scratch Trio league. It's 10 times harder recruiting for the PBAX league I'm in. Most THS bowlers are simply too intimidated and can't be convinced of the benefits. I know I sound pessimistic, but if you don't have a large mass of bowlers to market to, it's next to impossible to get anything new going.
As far as bowling on brickyard dry and "adjusting", I don't see the benefits most here are pushing. There is dry, and then there is dry where you are reduced to huck-and-chuck to keep plastic to the right of the headpin. Not to mention dealing with damage in the ball's track area due to too much friction. Sorry, I don't agree that this makes one a better bowler. I think this was the condition 12XSECH described before the testosterone crowd started jumping down his throat.
Anyway, good luck in trying to start up a PBAX league in your area.
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I bowled in one tournament where I burned an track in two new balls an Roto Grip Neptune and Venus just purchased the day before.
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Thank you Steven!
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scrub,
All of the balls in our league were coming back tracked up. Dry is one thing....This dry is not acceptable. And...I / we must have been right because the house changed it and corrected it. If it was just a matter of everyone adjusting the house would have said "adjust, we aint changing."
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I wonder what some of you do on Wolf or Cheetah or a tournament condition where the front part of the lane is high friction and blown up (approaching toast)........I really do.
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I bowl in an AMF center and have since 2000. Whatever the lane surface is, its very high friction. My ball's track area looks like it has 1000 games on it after only a few. It has always been that way. I never use any of my good stuff if I can help it.
They condition the lanes but they still have a ton of friction. Its a tough place to score. Only one 800 series in 5 years and usually one 300 in a season. One or two with avg over 200 out of 14 5 man teams too. Its tough but I like the challenge.
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I wonder what some of you do on Wolf or Cheetah or a tournament condition where the front part of the lane is high friction and blown up (approaching toast)........I really do.
Adjust. :)
I regularly see what you're describing. I generally move in to find head oil and hope I don't run out of room. Next step is to play with hand positions, maybe dumb down to a high RG weak resin, or as a last resort, my Storm urethane Polar Ice. This is 'normal' and to be expected.
But when it gets to the point of having to throw plastic up the back at 19-20 mph instead of my normal 17 mph release, it's really not bowling anymore. You know for certain when you're ball needs a resurface after the fun-and-games brickyard event.
There is dry, and then there is DRY.
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Believe me 12X I understand my pro shop man could not remove the track that was burned in my balls. The house I bowl in has 1.50 an game special on Friday, you can rolled your least aggressive ball it start rolling at the arrow toward the seven pin and I am right handed so I just pull out my 2 piece Black-U-Dot to save my equipment.
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Excellent observation.
I love the challenge and know I am becoming a better bowler, but we can't seem to get that across to others. They want their higher scores from THS (even though the THS in this house isn't super easy). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Move. :)
I live in the Los Angeles area, and even with one of the largest concentrations of people in the US, there are only a handful of good regular season scratch and PBAX leagues. It's hard attracting bowlers to our 650 Scratch Trio league. It's 10 times harder recruiting for the PBAX league I'm in. Most THS bowlers are simply too intimidated and can't be convinced of the benefits. I know I sound pessimistic, but if you don't have a large mass of bowlers to market to, it's next to impossible to get anything new going.
As far as bowling on brickyard dry and "adjusting", I don't see the benefits most here are pushing. There is dry, and then there is dry where you are reduced to huck-and-chuck to keep plastic to the right of the headpin. Not to mention dealing with damage in the ball's track area due to too much friction. Sorry, I don't agree that this makes one a better bowler. I think this was the condition 12XSECH described before the testosterone crowd started jumping down his throat.
Anyway, good luck in trying to start up a PBAX league in your area.
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I bowl in 2 house...One is private owned the other AMF. The private owned house puts out plenty of oil and its not a walled up shot either. The oil last decently for all 3 games. The balls dont come back checked up and burn marks in the tracks either. This is all our league wanted from AMF....We didnt ask for any specific pattern to make it easy. I rather struggle on a shark pattern then struggle on dirt with the balls coming back damaged. AMF did correct the problem in week 3.