What I learned on another forum.

"That the way you locate the PAP is wrong"

"The X and Y values simply don't translate into anything useful other than identifying a location." (of the PAP)

"Measure from the PAP to the center of the fingers gives you a longitude, latitude value, longitude being 0 degrees."

"And A dual angle layout doesn't produce the same dynamic parameters for each bowler."

"Each bowler (worth making a layout for) has a PAP." (I guess if your not worth a layout you don't have PAP)

"At the point of release the ball will rotate around the PAP.
(technically it's the line from the PAP to NAP)"

"Now lets look at the major problem.
At the point of release, what is the position of the core in relation to where the force is applied.
It makes a big difference if the PIN is facing down, or up at that moment.
But that question can't be accurately answered if you use the current PAP identification method."

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/9967-PAP-Identification-Method-(-amp-Terminology)

I think your pretty close Juggernaut.

The way I took is

That if you had two identical bowlers, with the exact same PAP and layout on the ball. Only their spans are different. The balls won't react the same.

Because if they both release the ball with their fingers say at 3 oclock, the one bowler with the longer span. His ball would be turned slight ahead of the other ball.

say you took a picture right then and overlayed one ball on top of the other (which he di in one pictur). the pin and MB of the balls wouldn't match up. Only the PAP and finger holes would.

And he say's because of that the balls would not react the same. It's like a different layout now. as he put it "doesn't produce the same dynamic parameters for each bowler".

So by changing how the pap is located, it will fix that. So people with the same layout, their balls will react the sameway.

Or something like that.

We also learned that the throbot's are flawed because they can't throw a 300 game.

That is a insane thread, that should have never got started.

I think your pretty close Juggernaut.

The way I took is

That if you had two identical bowlers, with the exact same PAP and layout on the ball. Only their spans are different. The balls won't react the same.

Because if they both release the ball with their fingers say at 3 oclock, the one bowler with the longer span. His ball would be turned slight ahead of the other ball.

say you took a picture right then and overlayed one ball on top of the other (which he di in one pictur). the pin and MB of the balls wouldn't match up. Only the PAP and finger holes would.

And he say's because of that the balls would not react the same. It's like a different layout now. as he put it "doesn't produce the same dynamic parameters for each bowler".

So by changing how the pap is located, it will fix that. So people with the same layout, their balls will react the sameway.

Or something like that.

We also learned that the throbot's are flawed because they can't throw a 300 game.

That is a insane thread, that should have never got started.

 Well, to be honest, there are FAR too many variables involved to make the conclusion that slight span length diferences would make a difference of a magnitude that any bowler, much less an amatuer league bowler, could tell the difference.

 Technically, ANY system that repeats is capable of producing good results, as long as the PROCESS is repeatable. That doesn't mean that one is better than another, just different in some basic principle.

 I understand the system he is coming up with, and I do think it would be a repeatable system with predictable results, but I also think the dual angle technique and the pin buffer technique can be used with equal repeatability and predictability.

 The balls reaction, to me at least, is irrellevant to the location of the gripping holes, except that the gripping holes predicate the center of grip, which would be an individual spec, just like the span length is.

 If the system is repeatable and predictable, and the point of reference used is constant to the system, then the results will be repeatable and equitable from ball to ball.

 As I have said before, and I will say again, it is regrettable that you now have to have a PHD to understand, design, and drill bowling balls these days.