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Author Topic: PAP related question  (Read 1416 times)

Splitz

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PAP related question
« on: January 05, 2008, 01:28:06 AM »
I've noticed that several of my top line balls have PAP's that are not similar, I'm assuming from the core dynamics.  Now, I agree that drilling a ball using your PAP is a good idea, that it should give you a better result than just approximating, BUT when your PAP has changed from the ball dynamics it no longer is what you thought you were getting.  The distance to the pin may have moved an inch sideways with maybe some up/down thrown in for good measure and on a high differential ball wouldn't that be a somewhat significant change?

If it matters reactionwise, how would you go about getting your PAP to remain the same on a new ball as what you had determined off a non-flaring spare ball so what you wanted for a layout is what you actually have in the end?

I've never really worried about this as I doubt if I'm good enough to tell the difference especially on a house shot.  But the other post on drilling off a PAP got me thinking inquisitively about this.  Anyone care to venture an opinion?
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novawagonmaster

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 09:45:08 AM »
I don't know about the way you throw, but when I throw my spare ball, I tend to throw harder with a broken wrist position. My track is normally an inch or better away from the middle finger on my strike balls, but it often clips the finger hole with my spare ball due to the change in release.

Also, my track changes with drilling changes. For me, shorter span equals lower track. Longer span brings the track up a little. Also, changes in thumb pitch (especially lateral) can also slightly alter the track.

Generally, your PAP should remain the same given duplicate fitment and release.
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Jon (in Ohio)
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 09:45:10 AM »
PAP is measured as the ball is leaving your hand... not once the ball hits the lane.. or is in the heads, etc.  Therefore, it should be almost identical, regardless of the ball/core dynamics/etc.  With that being said, I've read that certain balls with very strong cores may actually begin to flare just off the hand and/or as soon as they contact the lane surface.  If this is indeed the case, they may give a "false" impression of having a different PAP.  Anyone else care to add/clarify/disprove my thoughts entirely?  

S^2
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J_Mac

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 09:49:29 AM »
S^2...  believe it or not it, it's been shown that balls start to flare in the air.
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nospareball

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2008, 10:06:13 AM »
quote:
S^2...  believe it or not it, it's been shown that balls start to flare in the air.
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice."  Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."


On some balls maybe, but most of the time if I put a piece of tape on my pap and throw it the tape will stay stable for the first 15 feet or so.

Personally I never believed in getting PAP from a non flaring plastic ball.  If your PAP is different on a dynamic cored ball for whatever reason and verified with a piece of tape, then why wouldn't you want to use that measurement?
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Monster Pike

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2008, 10:08:44 AM »
Let me preface by saying I'm no physicist or Sir Isaac Newton, but I highly doubt the bowling ball starts to "flare" in the air.  My initial impression is that when the dry ball meets the lane surface & continues down lane is when the ball starts to flare & then when it encounters some sort of friction/dry boards is when it bonds to the surface & hooks or flips. I believe that is why one lofts the ball, ala Robert Smith, so it doesn't flare too early. Now I might be wrong about that, but I do not think the ball "flares" while in the air.
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novawagonmaster

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2008, 10:31:32 AM »
I believe a ball "could" flare in the air, but I also believe the amount of flare would be nearly immeasurable between the time the ball left the bowlers hand and the time it first contacts the lane.

I think if you conducted an experiment from a certain altitude, revved up a ball, and chucked it out the back of a plane, it might flare to some degree. While intersting to consider, I don't think it has any bearing on bowling in the real world.
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Monster Pike

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2008, 11:38:03 AM »
quote:
I also believe the amount of flare would be nearly immeasurable between the time the ball left the bowlers hand and the time it first contacts the lane.

I don't think it has any bearing on bowling in the real world.
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Jon (in Ohio)
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Agreed.
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bigb4life

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 12:06:57 PM »
Remember that your pap is not only for ball reaction but for for a flare safe alignment. If you want to drill a ball that doesnt track over fingers use your pap from your most recent ball. Your next ball may be a bit different but no one releases the ball the same way every single time. If it is not a huge difference between balls and paps it will matter very little.
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TWOHAND834

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Re: PAP related question
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 12:30:11 PM »
Yes.  The ball can/does flare in the air.  Reason is that even though the ball is not in contact with the lane surface, the ball is still, in fact, rotating.  If the ball is rotating, wouldn't the core have to flare? That is why they say it is best to use a non flaring ball such as a plastic spare ball and use your normal strike release.  That way, regardless of the ball being in the air or on the lane, the PAP is still going to be "true".  EX:  Bowler uses his spare ball with a strike release but the natural release does not allow the ball to hit the surface until close to the arrows, the tape should still be stationary once it does hit the lane surface thus making it easier to get the true PAP.  If the same bowler uses a higher end bowling ball for the same purpose, the ball more than likely will flare just enough so that the tape is not stationary once it hits the surface thus making finding the PAP more difficult.
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Steven Vance
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