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Author Topic: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.  (Read 7031 times)

pocket710book

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Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« on: July 04, 2016, 06:43:12 AM »
I'm new to your board, so if I've posted this to the wrong forum, please let me know.

I am a USBC Silver Coach, and my partner is a USBC Gold Coach.  We are conducting research for an upcoming book, and would really appreciate your help.  We have posted a short survey consisting of 9 photos of a bowling ball entering the pins, and seek bowlers' opinions as to whether or not the shot is in the pocket, and whether or not you think it will carry.  The survey is completely anonymous.  At the end, you have the option of entering your email address for a chance to win a copy of the book (once published), or to receive notifications regarding the book.  We will not spam you nor sell your address.

We are not trying to determine where the pocket is with this survey.  Rather, we seek only the opinions of bowlers of different calibers.  If you threw the shot depicted in the photos, would you consider it to be in the pocket?  Would you expect a strike from that hit?

If you would like to share your opinion, our survey can be found at http://pocket710.com.  Thanks in advance for your help.

...James
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billdozer

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2016, 08:45:59 AM »
Quote from: luv2C10falll on July 05, 2016, 08:03:31 AM
My thoughts are falling in line with Icdeadmoney.Not sure they are silver,gold ciaches.Ill save my money and pass on what ever book they publish

Silver coaching doesn't mean you're a coach at all. I sat through a seminar and got my silver. 

Gold on the other hand is pretty intense...

Now that I'm done with Purdue and graduated...

I might pursue gold coaching...
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michelle

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2016, 09:32:39 AM »
I have to agree with some of the comments about too little information being provided.  There are so many other variables that enter the equation, not the least of which is speed, rotation and weight...none of which you are getting from a still shot. 

Some of those photos are clearly not going to strike if it was one style but could well be throwing pins around from another style.  I would have preferred to see a brief video that stopped as the ball got to the pin deck...and then perhaps show a result only after the person answering the questions had responded about strike or not. 
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djgook

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2016, 09:39:26 AM »
Quote from: michelle on July 05, 2016, 09:32:39 AM
I have to agree with some of the comments about too little information being provided.  There are so many other variables that enter the equation, not the least of which is speed, rotation and weight...none of which you are getting from a still shot. 

Some of those photos are clearly not going to strike if it was one style but could well be throwing pins around from another style.  I would have preferred to see a brief video that stopped as the ball got to the pin deck...and then perhaps show a result only after the person answering the questions had responded about strike or not.

Thank you sir. You just saved me alot of money, cause my local pro shop is a bronze coach :)
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dmonroe814

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2016, 10:08:01 AM »
I see these hits all the time in my leagues.  For most league bowlers, if it hits the head pin then they think it should strike and get "screwed" if it doesn't.  Sure, angle, roll phase, oil pattern, and luck, all play a big part in whether it strikes or not.  This would just be a small snapshot of the book.  Just putting the pictures of a ball hitting the pocket (1-3), with educated bowlers bowlers on this board making our best guess, would give the reader some idea of how many opinions there are on the strikes.  Watching league bowlers, and studying the lady professionals, I am surprised at how well they carry, on half pocket and too deep an angle.  Just wait until the book comes out and judge then.
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billdozer

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2016, 10:10:23 AM »
Quote from: djgook on July 05, 2016, 09:39:26 AM
Quote from: michelle on July 05, 2016, 09:32:39 AM
I have to agree with some of the comments about too little information being provided.  There are so many other variables that enter the equation, not the least of which is speed, rotation and weight...none of which you are getting from a still shot. 

Some of those photos are clearly not going to strike if it was one style but could well be throwing pins around from another style.  I would have preferred to see a brief video that stopped as the ball got to the pin deck...and then perhaps show a result only after the person answering the questions had responded about strike or not.

Thank you sir. You just saved me alot of money, cause my local pro shop is a bronze coach :)

Unless they upped the requirements...
Bronze ain't anything. Props to him having it though...ain't a PSO in the county with one where i live!!!
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spmcgivern

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 10:35:30 AM »
On another forum, there was a little more information provided. 

The survey intends the bowler to imagine his personal shot hitting the pocket at the locations shown in the pictures, then state whether they would strike or not.  I think that would provide a better context to answer the survey's questions.

But I do believe a better way to show whether or not the shot would strike or not is to give a chance percentage of striking.  For instance, if I carry a lot of light hits I might put 70% on some light hits where as another bowler might put less at 40% or so.
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kidlost2000

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2016, 01:59:39 PM »
Quote from: ICDeadMoney on July 05, 2016, 02:03:31 AM
Quote from: kidlost2000 on July 04, 2016, 10:29:49 AM
And you're over thinking the simple survey….. If you threw the ball and that was the location hitting the pins, is it a light hit, high hit,  or in the pocket… and do you think it will carry. That's it. That is all that is needed for an opinion survey.

Could ring a 10, Stone a 9 or 8 or miss the pocket completely and domino a strike. If they wanted a break down of results they would give you an essay section instead of strike or no strike

You see it as a simple survey.

The OP claims to be a Silver level, and along with a Gold level, are doing "research" for a book.

Are you interested in reading a book where such a simple survey would be considered research?



I believe if  a book is great they will make it a movie so Im not responsible for reading anything. I am sure it would be easy to correlate based off of people of said caliber in bowling their opinions of what is or isn't a pocket hit and based off their experiences if they think it will carry or not. With the questions asked and the opinions given you could use it for worth while conversation or literature in a book.

We also do not know if the pins are new fresh out of the box, well worn, twisters, pin weights, is there an unknown person back there throwing messengers with said pins to help carry, what altitude the bowling is taking place, are we the bowler throwing the ball good or bad that day, are the lanes within regulations, pins spotted correctly, pin deck level or slanted, the direction of said slant if they are....is their an oil pattern on these lanes we speak of, does it play correctly...the world may never know these answers.

With so many unknowns I am not sure how the bowler can be expected to throw the ball in the first place.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 04:30:03 PM by kidlost2000 »
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ThomasBowling

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2016, 02:52:44 PM »
The actual pocket is just a tiny bit to the side of the 1 pin, on the right for us righties, and to the left for the lefties.
But I've gotten strikes by hitting the 1 pin straight on, gotten strikes by hitting it very far to the right, and far to the left too.
I've even gotten strike without touching the 1 pin, just once though.
I hit between the 3 and 6 pin I think. Was one of the weirdest strikes I've gotten.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2016, 07:52:27 AM »
Geeeeez, REALLY?

 My God, it's just a simple question, that has a simple answer.

 They're not looking for an in depth study with statistical logistics about what percent of "good" shots don't carry and "bad" shots do. All they asked was "Is this ball in the pocket or not, and should you expect it to strike or not". That's it.

 Do light hits carry? We all know they can, but do we expect it to, or do you feel just a little lucky when it does?

 We all know that some high shots roll the four pin, but is that what we are purposely aiming to do, or did we just throw it high and get lucky?

 If it helps, just imagine you're throwing a plastic ball, THEN answer the questions they asked.
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cory867

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2016, 08:48:59 AM »
Quote from: Juggernaut on July 06, 2016, 07:52:27 AM
Geeeeez, REALLY?

 My God, it's just a simple question, that has a simple answer.

 They're not looking for an in depth study with statistical logistics about what percent of "good" shots don't carry and "bad" shots do. All they asked was "Is this ball in the pocket or not, and should you expect it to strike or not". That's it.

 Do light hits carry? We all know they can, but do we expect it to, or do you feel just a little lucky when it does?

 We all know that some high shots roll the four pin, but is that what we are purposely aiming to do, or did we just throw it high and get lucky?

 If it helps, just imagine you're throwing a plastic ball, THEN answer the questions they asked.

same thing I was thinking.
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luv2C10falll

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2016, 12:08:22 PM »
It was retarded,no coaches writing a book there
Diffently not Mark Baker.I've seen him several times and I think he would laugh at that survey.Besides why not put your name on it in the beginning to give it more credibility??
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 12:12:58 PM by luv2C10falll »
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xrayjay

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2016, 04:39:34 PM »
Anything less than a perfect pocket entry are all "lucky strikes" IMO. Especially for those lower rev players.
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avabob

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2016, 10:52:12 PM »
Not a very useful survey.  Only possible answer is to express as a percentage.  Perfect pocket hit will result in solid 8 as much as 5 percent of the time.  Some days a shaker can carry 70 percent.  Other days less than 50. Half pocket can vary even more.
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Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2016, 10:08:04 AM »
    Prime example of the problem with most on this site. Everyone is an expert and has to be negative on every post. We all have had our nights where we throw the ball great and don't score well then we have our nights where we throw the ball terrible and score well. OP said they were Silver/Gold coaches and wanted to write a book and needed feedback. Maybe they are writing the book to educate the up and coming bowlers as to what it pocket, what is not and to show where highest strike percentage is and not to expect a strike on every pocket hit. At least they are putting in an honest effort to help the game and it's a lot better than listen to the few individuals on league night that think every time they touch the head pin they should get a strike.
     By the way OP, I took the survey and best of luck on your book. You have evidently put in time and money to become Silver/Gold coaches and seem to want to help people in the game unlike a lot of coaches that get certified and that's all they do.
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avabob

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Re: Where is the pocket? Please help us with our survey.
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2016, 11:59:55 AM »
The question on each shot was whether it would strike.  There is no way I could answer that question yes or no. 
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