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Author Topic: Why waste your time?  (Read 1965 times)

twister

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Why waste your time?
« on: August 24, 2004, 06:45:54 AM »
I don't know how anyone can bowl these strikefests that are going on without pulling their hair out! when your averaging 231 and just make the cut, http://www.granprixtours.com/Crestreg02results.html how much easier can it be? put these so called "bowlers" on a sport shot and we'll see who goes home crying cause they can't average 240-250 anymore.
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SrKegler

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2004, 08:02:00 PM »
There's a big difference in averaging 150 and winning and having to average 250 and win.

I know most of the people on that list, each one of the cashers are high caliber bowlers.  The problem with scores that high is it turns into a carry contest.  Leave a solid 8 in the wrong place, all of a sudden you're down 21 pins.  Not because you threw a bad shot, luck was just against you, a pin may have been slightly off spot.

Like Twister mentioned, its not a matter of bowling, its a matter of carrying.  Luck has more to do with winning than execution.
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SrKegler

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2004, 08:54:04 PM »
The problem is I would like to see us get back to the 150-200 bowlers we used to have attend.  The way the shot is now, EVERONE can hit the pocket, all that matters is the carry.

Now if Joe Bowler with his 205 average looks at the scores, he isn't going to enter.

If we could put out a tougher shot and the scores drop to around 215-220 level, Joe Bowler would probably give it a try.

Now when I mentioned these were all high caliber bowlers, there are a few of them that couldn't compete on a tougher condition.  The stand left, throw right with 500 revs won't count if they have to hit within a 5 board area.

Twister probably knows the few I'm talking about.
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ThongPrincess

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2004, 08:57:34 PM »
Hard Cold Truth, just my impression, I think what Twister is getting at is on an easy condition it is not always the better bowler who wins.  On a tough condition, it takes accuracy and precision to score well.  Luck is less of a factor in the outcome.

Example I bowled a sport pattern league and a THS league in the same house.  On the THS league I could pull the ball and still carry the strike.  On the sport pattern league, that error would not result in a strike.  On a tougher pattern, luck has less to do with carry.  While everyone will be scoring lower, the better, more accurate, or more skilled bowler will be rewarded with the cashing positions.
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DP3

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2004, 09:02:52 PM »
Mike Remaklus.....he's good.  Really good.
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hotstoy

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2004, 09:46:56 PM »
O.K.--I'm not trying to be a smart-alec here, but If a higher average bowler that is so skilled and precise is not carrying, why can't they adjust.  If it takes a lite hit to carry, why can't Mr./Ms. Precise throw it lite?  I can't do it, but I never said I was any good.

9andaWiggle

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2004, 09:50:43 PM »
I can see both sides of this equation.  Being a lowly 193 avg. bowler myself, the thought of having to shoot 690+ just to sniff the cash is a bit intimidating.  However, I can see where TCHT is coming from.  There will probably be some "lesser" bowlers cashing due to the easier condition, but overall, wouldn't it make sense that in the end the more skilled bowlers will still wind up on top?
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sheppy335

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2004, 10:32:20 AM »
I dont think it matter what condidtion you bowl on you need some luck to win no matter what! YOu can bowl sport and put it in the pocket 7 or 8 times and get tapped everytime or carry them all. Whether easy condidtion or hard you need to caryy period if you dont you loose, now on the harder you need to convert spares which is a dying breed now a days. that is the only true difference
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da Shiv

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2004, 11:27:01 AM »
I have nothing in particular to add to this topic, but I notice that the word "luck" is being used.  There was a time a few years ago when using the word "luck" would get you crucified around here.  Even when I was off the site, I could tell when someone had said something about luck because my computer would get hot and start to smell like ozone.

I have nothing against luck myself.  If you've got some to spare, I'll take it.

Shiv
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da Shiv

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2004, 12:16:59 PM »
quote:
People who are interested in entering tourneys have some degree of confidence in their ability to shoot around 600 (whether scratch or with handicap) and these bowlers make up the majority of the field. They will shun tourneys that have a rep for needing 700 to even cash.


Sawbones, since I just disagreed with you in another post, I thought in all fairness I should mention that I agree with you here.  I shoot 700s occasionally, but I know better than to think that I can summon one on command.  Since my game depends on good spare shooting, if I see a tournament that looks like it is not a carry contest and  good spare shooting is needed, I might be more inclined to enter.

Shiv
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2004, 12:17:14 PM »
Whow!

I did not read this whold post.

But I saw one thing that caught my eye!

Carrying is a matter of luck!

I disagree with that statement.  Ball speed, entry angle, ball weight, retained energy.

All of those things go into being a good carry bowler.

How do I know this, well I am not usually a good carry bowler.  But in a way I believe I bowl with one of the highest scoring highest carry bowlers in America.

He has easily 10 800s in the past 12 months and probably 20 790s.  To me to say that he's lucky when he throws 440 revs and 18 mph at the pin deck and I throw 14.5 mph and 290 revs is simply sour grapes.  He IS a better carry bowler and that is a definite skill!

For anyone to deny that as it's own seperate skill is just plain being, well sort of piss anty..!

Do I bowl a lot better relative to him on a difficult condition? Sure.  Do I maybe occassionally better on tough conditions? Why sure.

But that doesn't let me deny his considerable skill which just happens to be carry!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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MichiganBowling

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Re: Why waste your time?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2004, 01:19:48 PM »
I speak from experience here as I run sport tournaments on a regular basis...

On a sport shot, the general rule is if you bowl good and execute, you will qualify for match play.  If you are a little off, you will be on the bubble, and if you are making a lot of bad shots, you will miss the cut.

On a house shot, there is no general rule, because you can do any one of the three I mentioned above and still qualify for the cash.  

Bowling on a house shot is more about creating or finding a 10 board area, and then getting away with poor shots and still striking.  Bowling on a sport shot, you want to create as much area as you can, but you still have to be accurate to hit your 2-3 boards that you either created or found.  Accuracy is rarely a factor on the THS.  And spares are easy on THS too.

Of course there are exceptions to the rules, but this is generally how things are.

The proof is in the pudding here.  You look at most THS scratch tournaments, and it's the same few bowlers winning on a regular basis.  Those that are great at exploiting the large area and right roll that carries even the mis-hits.  In my sport tournaments, I've had 14 different winners in 15 events, because quite frankly, it's hard being the absolute best, even 2 times out of 15!  Our sport shot tournaments are finding out who is the best on those given days.

On a side note, I always ask our better bowlers why they think they missed the cut.  Rarely does somebody tell me they didn't have the right ball.  It's usually "I just didn't execute today".  So "matching up" doesn't appear to be the factor on sport shots that it is on PBA patterns.
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