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Author Topic: Wierd PAP location  (Read 5191 times)

housebowlerwannabe

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Wierd PAP location
« on: April 06, 2009, 07:40:58 PM »
Hey guys. I just found out today that my PAP is located in the center of my grip. I would consider myself a good bowler. I have cashed in a few regionals and average about 215 or so. My questions are: what could cause this? and what type of drillings would I benefit from? I have asked a few people and they say they have not heard of this ever happening.
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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2009, 02:21:23 PM »
If you can repeat it you always have a chance to find something on the lanes.

Slick lanes will be a challenge for sure, but maybe you can experiment with surface changes on the ball and see if that helps at all. Summer is a great time to work on different hand positions, etc. and develop a "B" game just in case...  Good luck.


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agroves

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2009, 12:05:07 AM »
That can't be right.  I drilled a ball for a lady with a 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 up pap.  Her track was the size of a donut.
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housebowlerwannabe

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2009, 12:30:01 AM »
ok so I took the pics. Can anyone help me figure out how to post them. I got no clue.
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JessN16

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2009, 12:47:49 AM »
quote:
That can't be right.  I drilled a ball for a lady with a 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 up pap.  Her track was the size of a donut.


You can have a 0 and 0 PAP and still cover the entire circumference of the ball. Or you can have a PAP of 6 over 0 up and be a spinner.

What determines track size is basically tilt. To see what I'm talking about, the easiest thing I can think of is to find a ball with a Rico drilling on it, which will have the pin dead center in the palm. Now pretend you have a pencil sticking straight through the pin out the top of the ball and also out the bottom of the ball.

If you were to spin the ball like a top, the pencil would point to the sky, and the track on the bottom side of the ball would be tiny.

Now, rotate the ball 90 degrees. The pencil, instead of facing north-south, will now be facing east-west. If the ball is rotating around the pencil with the pencil facing east-west, you will cover the maximum amount of circumference possible.

Where tilt relates to this is that a PAP of 0 and 0 with a small track works like it actually has 90 degrees of tilt. A PAP of 0 and 0 with maximum track circumference works like it actually has 0 degrees of tilt. There's another way to get 0 and 0 with a small track, and that's to spin it like you're opening a jar. I've found the guys with 0 and 0 (or close to it) with large tracks make a wrist motion during the delivery akin to turning down the volume on a stereo.

Jess

Edited on 4/8/2009 0:51 AM
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rockerbowler18

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2009, 12:54:22 AM »
quote:
quote:
That can't be right.  I drilled a ball for a lady with a 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 up pap.  Her track was the size of a donut.


You can have a 0 and 0 PAP and still cover the entire circumference of the ball. Or you can have a PAP of 6 over 0 up and be a spinner.

What determines track size is basically tilt. To see what I'm talking about, the easiest thing I can think of is to find a ball with a Rico drilling on it, which will have the pin dead center in the palm. Now pretend you have a pencil sticking straight through the pin out the top of the ball and also out the bottom of the ball.

If you were to spin the ball like a top, the pencil would point to the sky, and the track on the bottom side of the ball would be tiny.

Now, rotate the ball 90 degrees. The pencil, instead of facing north-south, will now be facing east-west. If the ball is rotating around the pencil with the pencil facing east-west, you will cover the maximum amount of circumference possible.

Where tilt relates to this is that a PAP of 0 and 0 with a small track works like it actually has 90 degrees of tilt. A PAP of 0 and 0 with maximum track circumference works like it actually has 0 degrees of tilt. There's another way to get 0 and 0 with a small track, and that's to spin it like you're opening a jar. I've found the guys with 0 and 0 (or close to it) with large tracks make a wrist motion during the delivery akin to turning down the volume on a stereo.

Jess

Edited on 4/8/2009 0:51 AM


Very nice description, Jess.
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housebowlerwannabe

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2009, 12:56:16 AM »
So I don't know very much about all this stuff (obviously), but can you tell the axis tilt from the track? Once I get get these pics up Im sure yal can help me more. The main things I want to know is if I need to change the way I throw the ball or if there would be any drillings that I could benefit from? If this really is my PAP then wouldn't typical drilling do something way different for me then they would for other players?
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JessN16

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2009, 01:11:10 AM »
quote:
So I don't know very much about all this stuff (obviously), but can you tell the axis tilt from the track? Once I get get these pics up Im sure yal can help me more. The main things I want to know is if I need to change the way I throw the ball or if there would be any drillings that I could benefit from? If this really is my PAP then wouldn't typical drilling do something way different for me then they would for other players?


First of all, I'm not a pro shop operator, although I do drill my own stuff. I'd feel more comfortable if you contacted someone like tenpinspro, BrunsNick, BeansProShop, JohnP, etc., because I might tell you something wrong.

Now, my personal opinions on your questions:

1) Axis tilt from track: As it relates to accuracy of knowing your true tilt, if you also know your PAP, then yes. If you don't know your PAP, then no.

2) Should you change: If you think you need to. If you're averaging 210 I'd have a hard time saying "yes, change." If you're averaging that high, that question needs to be directed to a professional coach, and I mean a really good, experienced one.

3) Will certain drillings benefit you: Absolutely they will. That goes for everyone but especially for anyone who has odd stats.

4) Would a "typical" drilling possibly hurt your game: Absolutely it could. I'll give you a prime example from under my own roof -- my wife bowls with some of my old 14-pound stuff. A ball drilled 4x4 with the pin at 1 o'clock over the ring for me works out to a 1.5x2 drilling for her because of her shorter PAP. The difference between a 4-by and a 1.5-by drilling, to me, is incredibly huge in terms of ball reaction.

One thing from a previous post, about struggling on oil: It's quite possible all your stuff is drilled "wrong" if your PAP is indeed that strange. And if that's the case, it can have a big effect on ball performance, especially as it relates to reaction on extremely oily or dry conditions.

Jess
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housebowlerwannabe

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2009, 01:56:11 AM »
Thank you Jess. I appreciate your input. I am just now starting to be serious about bowling. I am going to start practicing and getting new equipment. I feel like I need to figure out whats going to with this before I can really get started though .
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Buddy Christ

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2009, 01:59:03 AM »
quote:
ok so I took the pics. Can anyone help me figure out how to post them. I got no clue.

Upload them into photobucket.com (create an account if you're not registered, it's really easy) and then post the link on the site.
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housebowlerwannabe

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2009, 03:31:49 AM »
Thank you ssnix. Alright so here it is. I just took a bunch of pics. Hopefully this will show yal what im talking about.

1. Pic of grip. Track is not visible from this look
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling001.jpg

2. Upper bowtie
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling002.jpg

3. Lower bowtie
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling003.jpg

4. Track
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling004.jpg

5. Approximate PAP location (looks like 1/2 right, 1 inch down)
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling005.jpg
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JohnP

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2009, 11:21:28 AM »
That is a weird track and PAP!  Based on the pictures, you have very little axis tilt.  To measure your axis tilt, first measure your track diameter, see the following link.

https://www.buddiesproshop.com/34/How_to_Measure_Track_Diameter.htm

Then go to the following link for a table that relates the track diameter to axis tilt.

https://www.buddiesproshop.com/36/Asymetrical_Layout_Guide.htm

Can you post a video showing your release, I'd love to see it?  And I doubt that you've ever had a ball that was layed out properly for that PAP.  --  JohnP
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fluff33

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2009, 11:30:09 AM »
Definitely the track of a thumb dominant player.  But, if it is not broken, don't fix it.  Every bowler has his own style and release.  Don't fight success.
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Locke

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2009, 11:34:37 AM »
That is an interesting track you have there. I have a girl that I coach that is very close to that PAP. She covers a little less surface with her track though. As far as drillings go, you deffinately need something a little different than your average joe bowler. Me and my ball driller when laying out balls for this girl usually go an inch or 2 above the fingers and put the CG/MB pretty negative. This lets her ball hold some energy for a snap. Right now the way you have that ball layed out is like my lightest oil ball. It is impossible to make its flip. That is most likely why you are having trouble on oil.
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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it.

housebowlerwannabe

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Re: Wierd PAP location
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2009, 11:38:52 AM »
My track diameter is roughly 12 1/2 to 13 inches. According to the layout guide, that would equal about a 3-7 degree axis tilt. Thank John P for your help. I can try to do the whole video thing and have it up by tonight.
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