Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 06, 2009, 07:40:58 PM
Post by: BrunsNick on April 07, 2009, 03:57:36 AM
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
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Post by: leftyinsnellville on April 07, 2009, 05:00:15 AM
Post by: Goof1073 on April 07, 2009, 06:36:01 AM
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-Chris: DJ's Pro Shop : Auburn, MA
Post by: on April 07, 2009, 08:41:32 AM
quote:
...and you've verified this with putting a piece of tape in the center of grip then throwing the ball?
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-09
http://www.BrunsNick.com
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Use coupon code 1f59492 and save 15%
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Agreed. You may want to get that one double checked...
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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: JessN16 on April 07, 2009, 11:17:08 AM
I've seen some spinner guys come really close to this (another guy with a PAP of around 1 over, 1 up and averaged 210 with it), but it's rare and you should definitely get it confirmed.
Jess
Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 07, 2009, 12:00:33 PM
Post by: JessN16 on April 07, 2009, 12:37:20 PM
quote:
Yeah. Last night my teammate commented that I had a track that no where close to my fingers and thumb. We showed it to a couple of the more experienced guys in the league and they said they has never seen a track so far away from my fingers and thumb. After league a guy put a piece of tape in the center of my grip just to see what was going on. The just stayed in place right off my hand. I throw it about 19-20 mph and have a pretty good rev rate. I really just dont see how I started doing this. I guess it does explain why I have problems on oil though.
Is the tape "staying in the same place" and pointing straight up to the ceiling, or is it staying in place and pointing somewhere else, like 90 degrees to the lane? I'm trying to get a feel for how much tilt you have. How much of the circumference of the ball does your track cover?
Jess
Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 07, 2009, 01:00:20 PM
Post by: insidedrive on April 07, 2009, 01:18:57 PM
If you draw a line around the first ring of your track are the fingers and thumb equally distant from the track?
Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 07, 2009, 01:25:39 PM
Post by: fluff33 on April 07, 2009, 01:27:13 PM
Post by: EboKnight on April 07, 2009, 01:37:39 PM
quote:
I have seen a similar PAP, not quite as drastic, 1" over and 1 1/2" up. This was caused by him being thumb dominant. Instead of rotating his fingers around his thumb, he rotated his thumb around his fingers. He also had a large track, somewhere around 11".
i agree. thats what it sounds like he's doing at his release. its like he is opening a jar of pickles or something
turning his hand left to right.whatever works, works. do your thing man.
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Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 07, 2009, 01:38:49 PM
Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 07, 2009, 01:48:18 PM
quote:quote:
I have seen a similar PAP, not quite as drastic, 1" over and 1 1/2" up. This was caused by him being thumb dominant. Instead of rotating his fingers around his thumb, he rotated his thumb around his fingers. He also had a large track, somewhere around 11".
i agree. thats what it sounds like he's doing at his release. its like he is opening a jar of pickles or something
whatever works, works. do your thing man.
Yeah thats what my league members said last night (I shot 810), but I struggle on oil. I just started bowling regionals, and I have trouble usually in the first few games. Also, I often here people talk about spinning the ball as a negative thing.
Post by: on April 07, 2009, 02:21:23 PM
Slick lanes will be a challenge for sure, but maybe you can experiment with surface changes on the ball and see if that helps at all. Summer is a great time to work on different hand positions, etc. and develop a "B" game just in case... Good luck.
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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: agroves on April 08, 2009, 12:05:07 AM
Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 08, 2009, 12:30:01 AM
Post by: JessN16 on April 08, 2009, 12:47:49 AM
quote:
That can't be right. I drilled a ball for a lady with a 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 up pap. Her track was the size of a donut.
You can have a 0 and 0 PAP and still cover the entire circumference of the ball. Or you can have a PAP of 6 over 0 up and be a spinner.
What determines track size is basically tilt. To see what I'm talking about, the easiest thing I can think of is to find a ball with a Rico drilling on it, which will have the pin dead center in the palm. Now pretend you have a pencil sticking straight through the pin out the top of the ball and also out the bottom of the ball.
If you were to spin the ball like a top, the pencil would point to the sky, and the track on the bottom side of the ball would be tiny.
Now, rotate the ball 90 degrees. The pencil, instead of facing north-south, will now be facing east-west. If the ball is rotating around the pencil with the pencil facing east-west, you will cover the maximum amount of circumference possible.
Where tilt relates to this is that a PAP of 0 and 0 with a small track works like it actually has 90 degrees of tilt. A PAP of 0 and 0 with maximum track circumference works like it actually has 0 degrees of tilt. There's another way to get 0 and 0 with a small track, and that's to spin it like you're opening a jar. I've found the guys with 0 and 0 (or close to it) with large tracks make a wrist motion during the delivery akin to turning down the volume on a stereo.
Jess
Edited on 4/8/2009 0:51 AM
Post by: rockerbowler18 on April 08, 2009, 12:54:22 AM
quote:quote:
That can't be right. I drilled a ball for a lady with a 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 up pap. Her track was the size of a donut.
You can have a 0 and 0 PAP and still cover the entire circumference of the ball. Or you can have a PAP of 6 over 0 up and be a spinner.
What determines track size is basically tilt. To see what I'm talking about, the easiest thing I can think of is to find a ball with a Rico drilling on it, which will have the pin dead center in the palm. Now pretend you have a pencil sticking straight through the pin out the top of the ball and also out the bottom of the ball.
If you were to spin the ball like a top, the pencil would point to the sky, and the track on the bottom side of the ball would be tiny.
Now, rotate the ball 90 degrees. The pencil, instead of facing north-south, will now be facing east-west. If the ball is rotating around the pencil with the pencil facing east-west, you will cover the maximum amount of circumference possible.
Where tilt relates to this is that a PAP of 0 and 0 with a small track works like it actually has 90 degrees of tilt. A PAP of 0 and 0 with maximum track circumference works like it actually has 0 degrees of tilt. There's another way to get 0 and 0 with a small track, and that's to spin it like you're opening a jar. I've found the guys with 0 and 0 (or close to it) with large tracks make a wrist motion during the delivery akin to turning down the volume on a stereo.
Jess
Edited on 4/8/2009 0:51 AM
Very nice description, Jess.
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Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 08, 2009, 12:56:16 AM
Post by: JessN16 on April 08, 2009, 01:11:10 AM
quote:
So I don't know very much about all this stuff (obviously), but can you tell the axis tilt from the track? Once I get get these pics up Im sure yal can help me more. The main things I want to know is if I need to change the way I throw the ball or if there would be any drillings that I could benefit from? If this really is my PAP then wouldn't typical drilling do something way different for me then they would for other players?
First of all, I'm not a pro shop operator, although I do drill my own stuff. I'd feel more comfortable if you contacted someone like tenpinspro, BrunsNick, BeansProShop, JohnP, etc., because I might tell you something wrong.
Now, my personal opinions on your questions:
1) Axis tilt from track: As it relates to accuracy of knowing your true tilt, if you also know your PAP, then yes. If you don't know your PAP, then no.
2) Should you change: If you think you need to. If you're averaging 210 I'd have a hard time saying "yes, change." If you're averaging that high, that question needs to be directed to a professional coach, and I mean a really good, experienced one.
3) Will certain drillings benefit you: Absolutely they will. That goes for everyone but especially for anyone who has odd stats.
4) Would a "typical" drilling possibly hurt your game: Absolutely it could. I'll give you a prime example from under my own roof -- my wife bowls with some of my old 14-pound stuff. A ball drilled 4x4 with the pin at 1 o'clock over the ring for me works out to a 1.5x2 drilling for her because of her shorter PAP. The difference between a 4-by and a 1.5-by drilling, to me, is incredibly huge in terms of ball reaction.
One thing from a previous post, about struggling on oil: It's quite possible all your stuff is drilled "wrong" if your PAP is indeed that strange. And if that's the case, it can have a big effect on ball performance, especially as it relates to reaction on extremely oily or dry conditions.
Jess
Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 08, 2009, 01:56:11 AM
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Post by: Buddy Christ on April 08, 2009, 01:59:03 AM
quote:
ok so I took the pics. Can anyone help me figure out how to post them. I got no clue.
Upload them into photobucket.com (create an account if you're not registered, it's really easy) and then post the link on the site.
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Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 08, 2009, 03:31:49 AM
1. Pic of grip. Track is not visible from this look
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling001.jpg
2. Upper bowtie
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling002.jpg
3. Lower bowtie
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling003.jpg
4. Track
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling004.jpg
5. Approximate PAP location (looks like 1/2 right, 1 inch down)
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/p_mccordic/bowling005.jpg
Post by: JohnP on April 08, 2009, 11:21:28 AM
https://www.buddiesproshop.com/34/How_to_Measure_Track_Diameter.htm
Then go to the following link for a table that relates the track diameter to axis tilt.
https://www.buddiesproshop.com/36/Asymetrical_Layout_Guide.htm
Can you post a video showing your release, I'd love to see it? And I doubt that you've ever had a ball that was layed out properly for that PAP. -- JohnP
Post by: fluff33 on April 08, 2009, 11:30:09 AM
Post by: Locke on April 08, 2009, 11:34:37 AM
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Post by: housebowlerwannabe on April 08, 2009, 11:38:52 AM