Post by: JOE FALCO on August 16, 2007, 12:30:48 PM
Is this the going rate for leagues?
I always said that things like this is what's killing bowling .. I'm thinking seriously of cutting down my 4 leagues per week this year!
ON EDIT! Cutting down on leagues will certainly cut down the number of balls I buy!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Edited on 8/16/2007 8:33 PM
Post by: jkiser01 on August 16, 2007, 08:35:34 PM
WE are gonna have to raise the rate to at least $16 dollars per bwoler per night to have any prize money at all..
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Post by: FastTracker33 on August 16, 2007, 08:35:59 PM
They were 9.50 last season! My center's single game fee
is 4.00 a game. I bowl for free because I work there,
but still, this is gonna keep getting higher and higher
as the years go on. I see it now..
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-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!
Post by: Scolai on August 16, 2007, 08:37:21 PM
Regional management is always raising the league lineage knowing full well that the league will always paint the rise in league fees to "increased prize fund".
I bowl at an independent center in Rocky Mount. It's not much better, but it is better.
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Namaste.
ScolaÃ
/|\
Scolaà <--- The bowler formerly known as Pin-nut.
Post by: someguyintucson on August 16, 2007, 09:08:48 PM
Post by: BOWL119 on August 16, 2007, 09:39:34 PM
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T.J.
BOWLING IS FUN NO MATTER WHAT YOU SCORE. BUT A 300 IS ALWAYS NICE.
Awesome Revs, Finish, Fury, Mammoth, Flip
GOOD LUCK AND GOOD BOWLING!!!
Support the Military they are the reason we have freedom...
Post by: ThongPrincess on August 16, 2007, 09:41:16 PM
Monday Sport Trios 4 games $28/week going up to $30
Tuesday Prime Time Classic $25/week in winter it is a Men's only league
Wednesday NBAC League $23/week my guess is going to $24 in the winter
Sunday Adult/Jr League $9/week I don't know if it will go up or not for Winter
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
Edited on 8/16/2007 10:18 PM
Post by: DON DRAPER on August 16, 2007, 09:42:11 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on August 16, 2007, 09:49:21 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: MSC2471 on August 16, 2007, 10:07:20 PM
Wednesday night singles league in house closer to work (15 minutes east of work): $25 a week, $12.50 in lineage a night.
If I could bowl for $15-$17 a week in houses and have the house only get $8-$9 a night in lineage, I'd be bowling more often. You gotta love the East Coast...
Matt
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Tag Team Coaching Success Story
Post by: splendorlex on August 16, 2007, 10:24:27 PM
The real money is in the pot games anyhow!--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...
Post by: Hogsharley on August 16, 2007, 10:41:16 PM
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: Derek on August 16, 2007, 10:56:07 PM
Post by: JoeBowler on August 17, 2007, 07:33:58 AM
I wouldn't be able to afford to spend $200 a month on bowling balls. League lineage fees are $9.50 to $11.00 around here depending on how new the house is.
You old cheapskates kill me. If .35 a week makes or breaks you then you shouldnt be bowling in the first place.
Post by: JOE FALCO on August 17, 2007, 07:37:13 AM
My problem is commitment. I've told at least 3 of the four teams I would bowl. I won't let them down .. but .. this will be my last season. Sure I can make excuses for the costs .. but as long as we keep paying .. they will ask for more!
I just put some numbers together and I was wondering what I was doing wrong:
$9 per bowler each league
x 4 bowlers per team
$36 per team
x 16 number of teams in league
$576 league lineage per night
x 36 number of commited weeks (paid bowl or no bowl)
$20,736 for one league season
Not sure how many leagues each house has but I'll minimize and say 7 (out of 7 days). That would be $150,000 +/- committed from leagues during the winter season! From what I hear the CENTERS are not making money from leagues so this must be a DROP IN THE BUCKET when compared to their over all income!
Unless we want to continue to get TAKING .. we need action as the UNIONS would do .. STOP!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Phoneman on August 17, 2007, 07:46:01 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on August 17, 2007, 07:46:29 AM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: NappyCuts on August 17, 2007, 07:57:11 AM
Post by: triggerman on August 17, 2007, 07:57:58 AM
We are fortunate, our linage for leagues is about 2.00 to 2.50 a game so our league prices are all below 15
proprietors are getting greedy with linage of 4.00+ per game, the leagues are making up for their open bowling shorage no matter what they say. If say an AMF house is making more with open bowling,then why do they still discount prices during the day or early weekends? because they are not busy Leagues are now making that up for them via linage that is over the posted prices on the wall. 12.00 linage amounts to 4.00 bucks a game, I dont see alleys making it without lagues, and if htey shut out leagues alleys are only going to be open friday,saturday and sunday. leagues are still the bread and butter of houses and unfortunately instead of treating leagues like thier best customers, proprietors are starting to gouge those good customers. how long does an owner think he will keep a league when the leagues pays more then the open bowlers do?
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: JoeBowler on August 17, 2007, 08:06:00 AM
They built a new faciility here, 32 lanes, cost over 4 MILLION to build. If I had 4 million i would expect to make at least 5% on the money. That is over $200,000 in interest on capital. If you borrow your probably paying 7% for $300,000 a year. And that is no principal payment.
How are your utilities? Hve they gone up lately? Those caverenous barns are not cheap to heat, cool, run the machines, parts, labor. Automatic scores used to be about 5 to 10 grand a pair.
That 4% increase in lineage is $6000 a year in your example. To pay increases in utilities, minimum wage, insurance, etc.
Yes there are manyother source of cash stream. Snack bar, video games, candy, shoes, etc.
MagicCarpet had a post a while back about the cost of running a center. I ccodn't do better. Most centers are going broke, I dont know anyone getting rich.
$9.50 for 2 to 3 hours activity seems pretty cheap to me.
Post by: triggerman on August 17, 2007, 08:16:12 AM
quote:
Joe you problem is you always act like it is all income and they have not exspense.
They built a new faciility here, 32 lanes, cost over 4 MILLION to build. If I had 4 million i would expect to make at least 5% on the money. That is over $200,000 in interest on capital. If you borrow your probably paying 7% for $300,000 a year. And that is no principal payment.
How are your utilities? Hve they gone up lately? Those caverenous barns are not cheap to heat, cool, run the machines, parts, labor. Automatic scores used to be about 5 to 10 grand a pair.
That 4% increase in lineage is $6000 a year in your example. To pay increases in utilities, minimum wage, insurance, etc.
Yes there are manyother source of cash stream. Snack bar, video games, candy, shoes, etc.
MagicCarpet had a post a while back about the cost of running a center. I ccodn't do better. Most centers are going broke, I dont know anyone getting rich.
$9.50 for 2 to 3 hours activity seems pretty cheap to me.
I agree that costs will need to be adjusted for these types of things, BUT I still contend that in no way shape or form should a league be paying more in linage then OPEN bowling
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: JoeBowler on August 17, 2007, 08:44:10 AM
Post by: demo40 on August 17, 2007, 09:10:51 AM
for you and want to pay for it. Who says they shouldn't
get a raise every year just like you do. You know that if
you didn't get a raise every year, you would be raising
hell.
Post by: justdale on August 17, 2007, 09:18:09 AM
14 teams x 5 bowlers x 34 weeks x $10.95 our leauge will be giving the house $26061.00 for the year, that just one league, this is a 48 lane house
Post by: qstick777 on August 17, 2007, 10:08:48 AM
We had 28 teams, 5 bowlers per team, and 35 or 36 weeks.
We finished in 18th place and got $90 per bowler.
Each year they raise lineage - when I started in 2004 it was $11.05, then 11.20, then 11.35.
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Post by: CHILLX on August 17, 2007, 10:24:38 AM
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Clarke Hill
King Pin Pro Shop
3rd Annual King Pin Scratch Tournament $5,000.00 1st place
January 12 & 13 , 2008
Post by: JOE FALCO on August 17, 2007, 12:04:10 PM
Others have mentioned expenses .. one of those items is INSURANCE .. many of you may not remember but years ago INSURANCE was the initial reason for raising the LINE fee .. since then the fee has been jumping like crazy!
Is it justified .. like everything else .. depends on who is talking!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: MC on August 17, 2007, 12:26:01 PM
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"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up."
-Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
-Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story 
Post by: ThongPrincess on August 17, 2007, 12:36:29 PM
I think those on a fixed income are hurting the most when it comes to increases in league fees. I see more and more of the seniors bowling the Sr Leagues in the morning and early afternoon and giving up the night leagues. The Sr. leagues have the lowest fees and they are given perks the night league bowlers do not get. Many of the Sr Leagues give game passes weekly and they get free sodas and coffee during league. Oh and you are NOT a cheapskate.
As far as guaranteed amounts the house gets no matter if a team drops, this is not always the case where I bowl. When a person or team drops everything possible is done to fill the spot or spots. If they go unfilled, all the house keeps is the amount of prize fund already paid by the person/team. The league does not lose additional funds. There are many times the amount of shortages exceeds the prize fund accumulated and the house eats it. This may be a part of the "expenses."
I will also say my home center is kept in good condition and improvements are made regularly, so at least we see some of the added fees in use. BTW we usually see a $0.50 increase in linage every year or 2. The leagues often increase league fees by $1 and the extra increases the prize fund.
--------------------
USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
Edited on 8/17/2007 12:40 PM
Post by: BrianCRX90 on August 17, 2007, 04:50:17 PM
Post by: TheDude on August 17, 2007, 05:06:03 PM
We are presently i think charging bowlers anywhere from 6.50 per bowler plus taxes to 9.00 per bowler plus taxes at prime time.
No centre in our city is charging more than 10.50 for peak time tho.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: Red-Lake-83 on August 17, 2007, 05:26:15 PM
Wed-PBA experience $20.00
Thur-Mixed 4(Wife too!) $13.00ea
Fri-Mixed 3(Wife too! $10.00ea
Sun-practice $1.00 per game 6:00am to 11:00am
We are very lucky because we have at least 11 houses with in a 20 mile radius of us here in Las Vegas,NV so there is alot of compition for bowlers and it keeps the prices down. In about a year frome now we will have a brand new house only 2 miles from us! Of course those prices are only good as long as we stay off the one arm bandits as we come and go from bowling nights. All our leagues are in the casinos.
Post by: JOE FALCO on August 17, 2007, 06:33:07 PM
From what I see of responses line fees are at this amount or higher in some areas. But then I think in some of the areas reporting higher fees we are talking areas where RENTS and SALARIES are also higher. To me $3 (or higher) a game for league bowlers is ADDING THE STRAW THAT BREAKS THE CAMEL'S BACK! My feeling is that CENTER OWNERS are pushing to see how much league bowlers will take!
The question was always WHAT IS THE REASON FOR BOWLING LOSING BOWLERS? I have always speculated that it was BOWLING COSTS .. NOW I'm beginning to think my speculations was right!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Volksbeetle28 on August 17, 2007, 07:54:33 PM
On edit, for our winter league we pay $20.00 with 11.00 going to lineage
Edited on 8/17/2007 8:12 PM
Post by: BrianCRX90 on August 18, 2007, 02:56:55 PM
Post by: williewc on August 18, 2007, 09:49:45 PM
the big money league decided to go to a 28 week season last year, which pissed me off, hopefully we will go back to 32 weeks this year, but then we will probably have quite a few quit
then the trophy league i bowl in does 32 weeks
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Proud member of the Track Legion
Tag Team Coaching Success Story
Post by: JohnP on August 20, 2007, 09:42:09 PM
Post by: someguyintucson on August 22, 2007, 11:37:46 PM
Post by: Atochabsh on August 23, 2007, 12:51:37 AM
You cannot compare the price you pay as a discounted league bowler per line to the cost the house charges for league lineage. Its going to be different depending on the day you bowl and what time slot you take up.
Erin
Post by: Atochabsh on August 23, 2007, 01:49:51 AM
Erin
Post by: Jock on August 23, 2007, 03:19:10 AM
But, in relation to what you pay each week to bowl in your league, you have to know what you want. Do you want to pay a high price and have a high prize fund or a low price and a low prize fund?
I, personally, don't have the choice. We pay low cost each week and win virtually nothing at the end of the league (only a small trophy) but that was what was wanted by the majority of the bowlers.
Bowling league over here certainly isn't motivated by money!!
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I've upped my average, so up yours!
Post by: Jock on August 23, 2007, 03:31:34 AM
quote:
We finished in 18th place and got $90 per bowler.
WOW. Even WINNING the leagues here won't get you that much. Still, we only pay $14 each week, compared to your $20.
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I've upped my average, so up yours!
Post by: ThongPrincess on August 23, 2007, 06:59:05 AM
quote:
Heck...it only costs $2.75 per game to open bowl during the day so I'm trying to figure out where the $3.65 per game comes from???
I don't know about where you are from, but here the open play day rate is lower than the evening rate - $3.50/game open - 5 PM M - F, $4.50/game weekends all day and M - F evenings 6PM - close. So if your league is a night league, that may be the reason for the additional $0.90. Also it might include for sheet service, our house does the sheets.
I don't think the lineage should be more than open play for the time slot the league bowls. The league is guaranteed income while open play is not.
I just found a copies of the league rules.
Tuesday night 6 PM league We pay $25/week and of that $13.75 is prize fund and $11.25 is lineage. Word is lineage is going up $0.50/week so winter lineage will probably be $11.75
Wednesday night 9PM league (same house) We pay $23/week and of that $10.75 is prize fund and $12.25 is lineage. With the rumored increase, it will be $12.75 in the winter.
--------------------
USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
Post by: Powermachine- on August 23, 2007, 07:20:55 AM
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yes i sandbag im left handed.
Typical house bowler
Post by: pro shop guy on August 23, 2007, 07:35:43 AM
Post by: RealBowler on August 23, 2007, 08:06:56 AM
quote:
as the costs of heating, A/C, phone, rent, taxes all go up.......so too does the lineage.
You cannot compare the price you pay as a discounted league bowler per line to the cost the house charges for league lineage. Its going to be different depending on the day you bowl and what time slot you take up.
Erin
That's crap!
Our lineage is $12.00 for 3 games. If the leagues aren't there, the center is dead until 9pm. They only get busy at 9pm because they over all your can bowl for $12. 9 to close (some close at 11, some 12) you can bowl as much as you want for the same price as league bowlers are paying for 3 games.
I know league bowlers can be pricks sometimes, but I guarantee they do less damage to the lanes than the people bowling 9 to close - throwing houseballs half way down the lane, hitting the pin sweeper and what not.
And remember one thing. Your league bowlers are commiting to coming in EACH AND EVERY WEEK, for the better part of the year. These aren't the people that come in once a month to drink a couple of pitchers of beer and see how much you can tear up the lanes (although that depends a lot of league bowlers!).
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Haywood
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I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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Post by: chrisleftwich on August 23, 2007, 08:11:50 AM
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Chris Leftwich
Active Duty Coast Guard member.