Author Topic: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund? (Read 2529 times)

J_L_B · « **on:** November 02, 2008, 12:53:17 PM »

Would you bowl for just an Eagle?

Sidepots and Brackets don't count.

NOTHUMB · « **Reply #16 on:** November 03, 2008, 08:44:25 PM »

No. I make money and it pays for the trip. If gas were free---yes.
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Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.myspace.com/crushgroovecg

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #17 on:** November 04, 2008, 07:25:34 AM »

Heck yeah I would. And when I win, you can bet I'm gonna rub it in ALL YOUR FACES!!! I'm going to drive around town with that trophy on my dash! I'm going to post pictures of me making out with the trophy all over the internet, on every bowling forum, and I'll constantly remind everyone I see who THE CHAMP is!

It ain't about the money for finishing second, IT'S ABOUT THE GLORY OF WINNING IT ALL!

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9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

Smash49 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 04, 2008, 11:36:47 AM »

Of the times I have been to Nationals I have cashed fairly well. Was it enough to justify the cost and time of going? No! I still like going to Nationals because I bowl with a bunch of guys from all over the country. It is our one time a year to get together have dinner and just talk. Now not to say there is not money in the brackets. One person made about three grand in the brackets. I would still go but cost of going is getting high.

Smash49
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Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
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psaunders300 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 04, 2008, 12:43:20 PM »

Yes...
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Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://www.psaunders.net/bowling.shtml

Mvpbowler · « **Reply #20 on:** November 04, 2008, 02:20:36 PM »

JLB,

You know we go way back and have been friends so this isn't an attack by any means. But think about it, why would any amateur of any sort want to bowl against the top level pros. They have so much more access to anything they need then just about all amateurs. Also remember a few years back the high roller brought out a great thing called the A Game about 4 years ago. They invited any pro that wasn't exempt at the time I think it was or maybe just regional guys and how many showed up. I want to say about 20-30 to bowl for $50,000 I believe it was. That field was nearly 100 bowlers tops, $1000 entry fee for $50,000. And only 20-30 pros show up? Why would any mega buck/amateur event want to let pros in. Do you let 20-30 pros in and scare away 60-70 amateurs that aren't willing to bowl?? Or keep those 60-70 entries and continue on the way you are. There is only one reason here and we all know it why the pros are having a hard time bowling for bigger prizes. That is the PBA in itself.

Why doesn't the PBA just open the fields back up and do away with exemptions. OR better yet, have exemptions but still allow the 120 extra bowlers that they use to get come out and compete.

It is totally insane that during a TQR 6-10 amateurs bowl every stop, yet they get 1 spot ONLY?!?! THATS BS!! If 3 amateurs are in the top 5-8 your taking, then all 3 get in. The amateur paid his entry fee just like the PBA guy did. So WHY are they being penalized for being in the top 8? That rule has kept so many amateurs from supporting the PBA and wanting to go out and try their luck each week against the pros.

The mega bucks have tried their luck with allowing pros in. I even believe the Mini did it a few years back when they had the open division and Tyler Jensen won it. By the way the A Game David Ozio won it that year! Both of course having more access to equipment, a rep, etc.. then just about all the amateurs out there. Take nothing away from Ozio and Tyler, both are very good bowlers and well deserving of their victory!

But again the Mega Bucks have tried their luck with allowing the pros and it scares away the amateurs who don't think they have a chance against pros. What do we all know about the world, it is all about MONEY. If you lose entries because of PBA guys then the mega bucks are going to do what they have to do to continue to make money and bring back those people who don't think they can compete against the pros.

This is an on going battle for many years now
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George Palumbo
Visionary Bowling Products West Coast Sales Rep
VBPwest@yahoo.com
http://www.visionarybowling.com

Pinbuster · « **Reply #21 on:** November 04, 2008, 03:04:25 PM »

To go along with that.

The high roller entries started falling when some "amatuer" bowlers starting dominating sweepers and the main tournament.

So they installed rules to limit entries of the "professional am's" who had won over a certain amount in a time period.

That rule change drove serveral am's to the tour. Barnes, Kretzer, Healy, Rudy, and I'm sure others.

J_L_B · « **Reply #22 on:** November 04, 2008, 03:37:42 PM »

George,

Your post actually proves my point by showing why a great many amateur bowlers DON'T want to compete against Pros.

Is it because the Ams don't need to become better bowlers to be competitive?

Is it because the Pros are superhuman and will beat the Ams 100% of the time?

Or is it because bowlers in general always look to take advantage of a situation, the easiest quick buck, and the odds of making money without putting forth any effort to become a better bowler.

The fact that Ams can and do make money is a testament to the culture of bowling today and the past 20+ years.

We have taught an entire generation of bowlers that you don't need to practice, you don't need coaching, you don't to excel at the game/sport and you don't want to be a Pro.

The tide is beginning to change with the popularity of High School and College bowling, but the worst part about it is that a large portion of those great young bowlers don't aspire to become Professional because there are other ways to make more money bowling against less talented fields in the amateur ranks.

As far as Nationals goes, there is a rule that limits a team to two Professionals. No exempt bowlers are allowed at Nationals.

The main reason that pros have access to information, equipment, coaching, etc. is because they have EARNED it. Any bowler who worked hard on their game, competed at a high level and earned some respect, would be privy to the same information. Too many Ams want to be treated like pros without earning a thing.

dw23 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 04, 2008, 04:21:02 PM »

quote:
George,

Your post actually proves my point by showing why a great many amateur bowlers DON'T want to compete against Pros.

Is it because the Ams don't need to become better bowlers to be competitive?

Is it because the Pros are superhuman and will beat the Ams 100% of the time?

Or is it because bowlers in general always look to take advantage of a situation, the easiest quick buck, and the odds of making money without putting forth any effort to become a better bowler.

The fact that Ams can and do make money is a testament to the culture of bowling today and the past 20+ years.

We have taught an entire generation of bowlers that you don't need to practice, you don't need coaching, you don't to excel at the game/sport and you don't want to be a Pro.

The tide is beginning to change with the popularity of High School and College bowling, but the worst part about it is that a large portion of those great young bowlers don't aspire to become Professional because there are other ways to make more money bowling against less talented fields in the amateur ranks.

As far as Nationals goes, there is a rule that limits a team to two Professionals. No exempt bowlers are allowed at Nationals.

The main reason that pros have access to information, equipment, coaching, etc. is because they have EARNED it. Any bowler who worked hard on their game, competed at a high level and earned some respect, would be privy to the same information. Too many Ams want to be treated like pros without earning a thing.

My opinion doesn't mean much as I have only been at this for 13 years but here it is.

I have had the opportunity to meet a lot of the Ebonite employees over the last few months at Mega Buck events and other special events they sponsor. What I have noticed is that they are not especially open to talking to just anyone that loves bowling. If you are not going to purchase a ball or you are not on there staff they have little or no time for you. They were openly rooting for there staffer against my friend who was also throwing Ebonite at a Mega Bucks event they sponsor. I thought this was wrong. It made me yell louder for my friend as he beat the staffer.

There are many talented amateurs out there that have received coaching and bowl against the amateur staff of the big boys on a regular basis but like in most sports it is not what you know but who you know. Amateurs can't compete on the same level without spending alot of money that alot of these staffers didn't have to spend because they went to a college that had bowling or the ball companies have training sessions. It's not like pros or great amateur bowlers are going to go back to their home house and give seminars to help the sport. That would mean competition.

Sorry for the rambling but there's alot more on my mind.
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DW

Rileybowler · « **Reply #24 on:** November 04, 2008, 04:28:04 PM »

The majority of people that bowl nationals don't get any money anyway so I would say most would still bowl without a money award
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #25 on:** November 04, 2008, 05:24:19 PM »

"Almost every amateur bowling tournament that has a prize fund, excludes Professional bowlers. Megabuck tournaments have banked on the fact that if a so-called "pro" is not eligible to win, then more people are willing to bowl.

In my opinion, this is where bowling as a whole has failed miserably. Bowling is the only game/sport that teaches its participants to play beneath their ability to gain an advantage. It's the only game/sport in which you are penalized for becoming a better bowler by being excluded from tournaments.

We must change the attitude of bowlers as a whole from a sandbagging, average controlling nation to a always try your best, become the best bowler you can nation"

JLB,

The big problem, i see with bowling, is the fact that in todays age of cake shots and 240 house averages, you hurt yourself more by bowling better in leagues, because when you goto a tournament, those guys with a 180-190 average are more of a threat, than anyone else. because on a easy shot, they can snap off a 680 to low 700 series, now add in 90% of 220 for thier handicap and you have anywhere from 750 to almost 800 for a series. And if someone with a 220+ average, has an off day, or just isnt gettin the carry, he's going to get beat all day long.

Plus the sandbaggers is a big problem too, and they always will be too, untill you start making all tournaments scratch!

Another thing, is to make the standard oil pattern a sport shot, or atleast toughen up the shot alot. i mean nobody should average over 220, except the PRO's!!!!!!!!!!

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" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl " http://coolluvr4u1976.bowlspace.com/

Mvpbowler · « **Reply #26 on:** November 05, 2008, 12:09:57 PM »

JLB,

You know as well as I do the top 50% of the best amateurs have no problems bowling against the pros. Those are the guys who do go to the Open and the Masters and bowl. Us guys who are considered professional amateurs have no problem putting up the $400 and going to bowl there. So the people you are referring to are the 2nd tier which we both know what they are. I don't need to get into that. But you know I have no problems shoeing up and bowling with the pros one bit, nor does just about 60% of a high roller field. Now if you go over to the TAT you might get about 5%, but that really isn't a mega buck in my eyes. Granted he offers a huge prize, but has many limitations on who can bowl. Would I like the PBA guys to come bowl, probably not! Only for the mere fact that I cannot go bowl their events! Why should the be able to come bowl for my prize fund but I can't go bowl for theirs? That isn't fair at all. Again I say why doesn't the PBA open the field up to amateurs to bowl each week?

The high roller has been around since 1982, giving out over $80 Million in 26 years years. So they obviously have been doing something fair right because they are still around and do not "need" the pros.
I do understand what you are saying and in a way you are right. But in the past again when mega bucks open up to the pros, they don't show up to bowl!

Also realize the youth of bowling aren't aspiring to be anything in bowling these days. They are looking into other sports or actually leaving bowling after college. You do have a handful of bowlers that come out and go into amateur stuff. But also realize they live in a time where making it on the PBA tour is exceptionally hard! No one really has $20k to go around and bowl TQRs every week to try and get on the points. Or hope you get through and win that title. Some do go bowl the Tour Trials. But think about what they are getting out if it. Not a great income or life to live there.

How many kids do you know came out of college the last 5-6 years and had success at any level? 90% of the kids these days that have any success after college also have Team USA experience and coaching of some sort. Here are some of your 30 or so and under with success in recent years

Sean Rash*
Matt O'Grady*
Rhino Page*
Bill O'neill
Mike Fagan*
Jeremy Sonnenfeld*
Derek Sapp*
Chris Klerk*
Tyson Baranagan
Andrew Cain*
Tommy Jones*
Jason Williams
Chris Loschetter*

* ~ Team USA coaching/experience of some sort

I am sure there are a few others. But as a whole there aren't very many bowlers that come out of college and have success. You talk about they try and take the easy road to mega bucks and bowl for money there. If that is how they are trying to make their living, good luck! We have 10 events a year. You really think you can live off of that. The regionals aren't any better. The fact is there is NO money in bowling what so ever these days! Back in the days of high rollers being worth $200,000 or $100,000 those were the good ole days. But they aren't coming back anytime soon!
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George Palumbo
Visionary Bowling Products West Coast Sales Rep
VBPwest@yahoo.com
http://www.visionarybowling.com

Author Topic: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund? (Read 2529 times)

J_L_B

Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

NOTHUMB

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

9andaWiggle

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

Smash49

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

psaunders300

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

Mvpbowler

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

Pinbuster

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

J_L_B

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

dw23

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

Rileybowler

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

David Lee Yskes

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?

Mvpbowler

Re: Would you bowl Nationals if there were no Prize Fund?