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Author Topic: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s  (Read 4150 times)

mogators

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Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« on: April 09, 2016, 08:38:16 PM »
I'm considering dropping from 15# to 14# equipment and looking for feedback.  I have high ball speed and decent revs, at least for a 50 year old.  I have been having hand and back pain so after throwing a few shots at a demo with 14#, I bought a used 14# from a friend and had it re-drilled.  I have bowled well with it for the few weeks I've used it and feel like I can get a little more hand into it.  I did leave a pocket 8-10 last week, but I've done that on rare occasions with 15#'s too.  Other than that, I have not noticed any real difference in carry.  I am still hesitant to totally switch over and was considering just having my pro-shop try to get the lightest 15's they can when getting new balls.  I imagine I would see worse carry if I didn't have the ball speed I do or the revs, but for now it doesn't seem bad at all.  Do you think the lighter weights might get me into a habit of over throwing the ball?  What are everyone's thoughts on carry loss with lighter weights?  Probably getting 2 new balls shortly and don't know which way to go.
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Alpha Jackal
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TREP

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2016, 11:29:49 PM »
 I was told many years ago that the weight of the ball does not matter if you do not hit the pocket you will not score good no matter what weight ball you throw. With that being said I was forced to drop to #12 a few years back because of medical issues and have not had any problems with the lighter weight and scoring. An older guy (late 60s) that has bowled on the pro tour was thinking of giving up bowling because he is having problems throwing #16.He told me that with the carry I get with #12 that he feels he should be able to drop in weight and still be able to get good carry. Just make sure to practice with the weight you are dropping to and use only that weight so you are not going back and forth and messing your timing up.

jumba98

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 11:35:11 PM »
Im 55 switched to 14lbs 3 years ago,  average went up ten pins as now i can put more hand in it i have more control and can bowl way more games and not get tired. i personally did not see loss in carry actually seemed to carry better, probably because as i said my control and power was better. i say do it now u aint gonna get any younger.

good luck!

Juggernaut

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 11:53:26 PM »
Its a mixed bag.  I dropped down to 14's several years ago, and the only real difference I ever saw between 14's and 15's was on the bad "iffy" shots, and even then I couldn't tell much.

 The only thing I would suggest is, when drilling up a 14, you may want to go a little stronger drilling than with the 15. When I switched, my ball speed went up a bit, and I could use stronger drillings than before to allow for the change in speed.

 Yeah, it took me a while to get over the "mental thing" about 14's, but I finally did, and shot lots of good scores with them, including several really high 700 series and a couple of 300's.
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CoorZero

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2016, 12:00:21 AM »
I wouldn't worry too much about going down to 14. There are lots of good bowlers in my area that throw them and they carry just as well (or bad) as everybody else.

If core numbers matter to you you have to keep an eye on what you're buying though. In addition to the likely increased speed (at least at first) sometimes the RG and differential vary quite a bit between 14 and 15 pound balls. I definitely agree with the poster above that stronger layouts are probably better.

Eddie M

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 07:53:16 AM »
I switched to 14 about 2 years ago, and I can't tell a difference in carry.  If you think a weight drop will help, then do it.  Don't let the uneducated tell you that weight matters.
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dmonroe814

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 08:29:48 AM »
I had about the same carry with 14 when I tried it.  My problem was that I was throwing it through the break point, so I went back to 15.  14-15 doesn't matter a lot with carry.  If you are having pain, listen to your body about the weight.
14lb 15.5 mph at pins 325 Revs. Silver Coach, Ball Driller. In Bag:  Storm Pro-Motion, Hyroad X, Matchup, Code Red.

bergman

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2016, 10:29:10 AM »
If you are a high-speed-low-rev type of player (as I am), dropping down in ball weight
will often result in poorer pin carry. I dropped from 16# to 15" a few years back due to
advancing age (and knee issues) and I definitely noticed a decline in pin carry, especially on tighter lane conditions and on light pocket hits. Two years ago, I experimented with 14# and the results were even worse. Granted, today's balls are indeed a lot stronger but I still experienced a noticeable decline in pin carry. I did make
some physical adjustments in order to better match my speed-to-rev ratio, which certainly helped a little. However if I were physically able to do so, I would go back to
using 16# equipment in a heartbeat. For folks who are more rev-dominant, dropping down in weight will usually not be much of a problem.

Again, these observations are based on my own experiences. What's most important
is what works best for you, given your age, physical condition and style of play.

ICDeadMoney

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 12:51:49 PM »
If you are dropping weight due to physical limits on your body, then expect a drop in carry.

If however, you a dropping because you are hitting the pocket too hard with the heavier ball, you can see an increase in carry.


Steven

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 01:51:56 PM »
If you are a high-speed-low-rev type of player (as I am), dropping down in ball weight
will often result in poorer pin carry. I dropped from 16# to 15" a few years back due to
advancing age (and knee issues) and I definitely noticed a decline in pin carry, especially on tighter lane conditions and on light pocket hits. Two years ago, I experimented with 14# and the results were even worse. Granted, today's balls are indeed a lot stronger but I still experienced a noticeable decline in pin carry.

 
Very good analysis. At higher levels of competition, you'll see very few using 14# equipment. Norm Duke doesn't use 16# because it's no more effective that 14#.
 
A good rule of thumb is to use the heaviest weight you can comfortably handle. There are always unique exceptions where a lighter weight by choice is the better option, but they are exceptions.
 
However, if you don't have a choice and need to go down in weight due to physical limitations, nothing else matters. Bowl with the appropriate weight and enjoy the game.

ICDeadMoney

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2016, 05:51:13 PM »
If you are a high-speed-low-rev type of player (as I am), dropping down in ball weight
will often result in poorer pin carry. I dropped from 16# to 15" a few years back due to
advancing age (and knee issues) and I definitely noticed a decline in pin carry, especially on tighter lane conditions and on light pocket hits. Two years ago, I experimented with 14# and the results were even worse. Granted, today's balls are indeed a lot stronger but I still experienced a noticeable decline in pin carry.

 
Very good analysis. At higher levels of competition, you'll see very few using 14# equipment. Norm Duke doesn't use 16# because it's no more effective that 14#.
 
A good rule of thumb is to use the heaviest weight you can comfortably handle. There are always unique exceptions where a lighter weight by choice is the better option, but they are exceptions.
 
However, if you don't have a choice and need to go down in weight due to physical limitations, nothing else matters. Bowl with the appropriate weight and enjoy the game.

You really have to be careful when you discuss a specific bowler based on what you see on TV.

Lets take Norm Duke as an example.

Most times you see him on TV, he's bowled well enough to make the top 5, which means he's not struggling.

Now consider the "new" team events. 

Even if he's not bowling well, you get a chance to see him on TV, and he leaves more than his share of weak 10's

You may think the PBA is a scratch event, but it's not.  They are constantly changing oil patterns so the same names don't win all of the money.

That's a form of handicapping.

Norm Duke, and then Walter Ray when presented with a condition that favored playing straighter, up the outside, tended to take the title.

When you play straighter, deflection is your enemy.  All else being equal, heavier balls deflect less.


Steven

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2016, 11:01:31 PM »

You really have to be careful when you discuss a specific bowler based on what you see on TV.


You really have to be careful about making assumptions about where I see the players I reference.
 
I've bowled in some of the same tournaments along side Norm and Walter Ray. I had the privilege of bowling on the same pair with Walter Ray in the Senior Masters. Being in the position, I've seen both players play lines that you rarely see them play on TV. I watched Norm throw a 300 sliding up against the left gutter. Preferences aside, they both play the area of the lane that works based on the condition. Don't kid yourself otherwise. 
 
I'm not going to respond to any suggestion that PBA competition is not scratch bowling. I'm sure any of the other players in the PBA Regional I just bowled in would have some choice words for your assertion. 
 
In any case, none of this has anything to do with the fact that better players mostly throw 15 and 16 pound equipment. They do so because it gives them the best overall carry in most situations. The lesson is to throw the highest weight you can comfortably handle unless their are some unique reasons to do otherwise. If you have physical limitations, move down in weight and adjust accordingly. It's pretty simple.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 11:07:09 PM by Steven »

Juggernaut

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 08:17:48 AM »
I know I've already posted about this, but it seems you guys are forgetting something.

 If it were as simple as E=MC2 makes it sound, things would be different, but it is NOT that easy.

 There are so many extemporaneous qualities involved in this question that it cannot be fully answered by anyone other than the person in question him/her self.

 Personal idiosyncrasies that are intrinsic to each individuals release and abilities.

 Example: Person "A" is using a 15lb ball. For them, it feels quite heavy, and they just don't have the arm strength to impart the proper rotational energy to the ball to really get it to roll over and "set" itself at the proper entry angle.

 This person drops down to a 14lb ball, and suddenly they are able to put more on the ball, enough so that now the ball flips over into the proper roll pattern and entry angle, which means this particular person will probably carry BETTER with the 14lb ball than they did with the 15lb one.

 It is a very individual thing. For me, the ONLY difference I have seen is on the "bad" shots where I need some help from the pin action to help make up for a poorly executed shot. On the good shots, you would think my ball was a full 16lb ball, and I have had people look very surprised to find out it was "only" a 14lb'er.

 Truth be told, the only way to find out is get a good one and try it out
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avabob

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 06:02:20 PM »
All other things being equal, heavier weight means less deflection, translating to better carry.  However all other things are not equal.  Todays environment is much higher than many years ago.   This means that higher ball speed and higher rev rates which can both be achieved more easily with lighter weight balls will translate to a later release of side roll energy.  This is turn will often offset, or sometimes more than offset a decrease in weight. 

For bowlers that are already speed dominant, dropping in weight will usually hurt carry a bit.  For rev dominant bowlers dropping in weight will almost always result in better carry except on the slickest long patterns.   

johnkim

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Re: Thoughts on dropping to 14#'s
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2016, 07:27:32 PM »
I went down from #16 to #14 about 2 years ago.
My fingers (3) were hurting and the wrist (even though I were wrist support) and then my arm.
The reason I went to #14 instead of #15 was because most of my friends were using #14 now that we are all in late 40s.

I had so much more control with #14 balls.  I can actually change the ball speed as well.  I would get many light hit strikes and within 1-2 months my average came back to normal (190-195).

However, so often I would leave corner pins as well as solid 8 pins. Even though I was more consistent with not too many low scores, I didn't get high scores (250+).
So recently I went back to 16# because my hand was feeling much better now.
My average went up with many high games now.  I can't control the ball speed with #16 balls but I don't overthrow it.

I tried using both #14 and #16 at the same time... but bad results.

If my hand holds up, then I'm planning on sticking with #16 or maybe try #15.

One tip... since with lighter ball your ball speed will increase you might want to try earlier rolling layout or else you will pass the break point.

Good luck!