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Author Topic: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg  (Read 2382 times)

EagleHunter

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Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« on: March 03, 2009, 01:08:56 PM »
The Metro Detroit area townhall was held this past Sunday, with a turnout of roughly 120 people.  The meeting was contentious to say the least and almost ALL discussion was about the youth changes.  We had about 20-or-so youth bowlers show up at the meeting...from the local classic youth leagues and classic touring tournament organizations.

A number of the youth present spoke very passionately about why they thought the changes were "unfair."  A number of them spoke about how without being able to continue bowling in youth until age 22, they wouldn't be able to garner further scholarships and go on to college.  To many, these scholarships are apparently the ONLY way they will get to go to college.  Sadly, a number said "there is no way that I will get an academic scholarship, and you are taking away my only chance..."

First off, I feel for these youth...to a point.  Look, at some point in time USBC will make this change and some youth will be affected by it...there is NO way around this.  But some of the comments that came from these youths were quite troubling to me.  With all due respect, if a youth is so good at bowling that they can garner scholarships but says an academic scholarship is, essentially, laughable, perhaps they are bowling too much and should be...God forbid, concentrating on their academics!  Next, I don't know what these youth are being taught, but there are MANY ways out there for ANYONE to go on to college.  Thinking bowling is the only way is naive and shows (to me at least) a lack of parental involvement in important decision-making for the future, as well as a failure to present other realistic options for their youth.

On to the scholarships...a gentlemen (representing the State, I believe) made some comments about scholarships that I found interesting.  Paraphrasing, he said...scholarships CANNOT be based solely on bowling, that such scholarships can be or are considered income because they are not based on academic achievement...

I do not recall whom he was referring to concerning this classification, but it got me thinking...are there ANY other sports that provide individual scholarships for youth based on competing against other youth?  And if not, are these youth bowlers REALLY bowling for income, which is something no other youth sport competitor is allowed to do?

Now I don't know how many of you have classic youth tournament organizations in your area...we have a good number around here.  Understandably, those that would be impacted by this change were the most vocal...they want what they feel they DESERVE.  Another one of the issues brought up yesterday was how youth receiving such scholarships are getting a hard time from State High School Associations, NCAA, and other Collegiate programs.  So who is right about this?

Something tells me that, as much as would hate to think they are correct, that NCAA feels these youth are getting a benefit that other youth athletes are not...which leads me to believe that bowling is the only sport that does this.  While it is a noble idea, are we doing a disservice to our youth?  Should not ALL scholarships be received for academic achievement only (obviously except for those received directly from higher education institutions that offer them for bowling on the school's team)?

 

Atochabsh

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 01:28:45 PM »
I think the general concensous after our meeting was that if this cut off had to be done that it be given some warning of a year or so.  

Erin

ek11sx

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 02:42:25 PM »
wait, what exactly is happening to the scholarships?

JessN16

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 03:38:33 PM »
I don't get the state's interpretation on this.

If he said exactly what you relayed, then the logical end is that football, basketball, baseball, etc. scholarships are to be taxed as income. And I've been covering college football for 13 years and have yet to run into a single athlete or family that has ever mentioned the kid's scholarship being taxed.

And are those scholarships purely based on sport? You better believe they are. There are kids that have literally been functionally illiterate get college scholarships to play Division-I football off the strength of their athletic abilities. That position doesn't hold water and I can't see how it would stand up to a court challenge.

In regards to the NCAA, I hold more contempt for that organization than just about any other and it has nothing to do with bowling. The NCAA's rules are arcane and the application of those rules arbitrary and capricious. Their decisions are inconsistent and they basically have no legal oversight. The courts have mostly left them alone and lawmakers either feel they have more pressing issues or don't want to mess with a cash cow that contributes millions to their state schools' bottom lines.

If the NCAA has a problem with the SMART account or any other scholarship program, it is only because of issues of control -- i.e., they don't control it, therefore they don't like it.

Basically sounds like the state wants at that money, and the NCAA wants control of the process.

Jess

EagleHunter

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 04:40:07 PM »
There's a significant difference though in what you are portraying in regards to the scholarships received for other sports.  

First, the scholarship is offered by the educational institution, following acceptance into the school via testing or other requirements (granted those requirements probably aren't very stringent).  Bowling scholarships received by students in this way are treated just as the football, basketball, etc., scholarships.  And whether you believe it or not, there are some educational requirements that have to be met in order to retain those scholarships (granted many schools manage to "look the other way" in certain instances).

At question are these other scholarships that are received via defeating other youth bowlers (donators?) in various competitions (MJMA, JTBA, Junior Gold, etc.).  These "scholarships" are essentially income, as they are in no way based on any type of academic achievement.  In addition, these scholarships are not given away by an academic institution, as part of an agreement to perform athletically at said school.

The NCAA clearly feels that this situation is a financial benefit to those youth...one that youth in other sports do not have available to them.  In fact, name another youth sport that does this other than bowling?

As I said, as much as it pains me to say so, I have to agree with NCAA on this one.  What is even worse is the attitude of the youth that I witnessed at the meeting.  The "laughable" idea of getting scholarships via academic achievement was most disturbing.  Again, if you are so good at bowling that you can keep banking scholarship dollars, but you are failing academically...chances are you should be bowling less and studying more.

Bowling is NOT the only way to get scholarship dollars for school.  However it is the ONLY sport that allows the opportunity in this fashion.  Personally, I think the youth are being done a disservice and it needs to be corrected.


JessN16

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 05:02:12 PM »
One of the reasons bowling operates in this way is that it is forced to, somewhat, by many states' almost fiendish objection to running bowling as a high school sport. In all the other sports -- even golf, which doesn't have SMART but does have the issue of amateur youth having to sometimes enter into prize-paying events in order to gain exposure -- there is a high school equivalent run by the state's athletic association.

So that leaves the business of developing bowlers to the USBC youth program and local volunteer coaches. And if those kids want to have the same ability football and basketball kids do -- i.e., using their athletic skills to better themselves academically -- SMART is the only way to go.

They can call it income, a gift, whatever they like. The fact of the matter is it's the only avenue available and unless you mandate some of these states to run a HS bowling program -- how, I don't know -- that won't change.

Are there donators in youth bowling? Yes. Just like there are bench scrubs on the HS football team who were still assessed activity fees to pay for their helmets and pads. I consider that part of the process for any prospective student-athlete and it's a good lesson in how the American competitive business model works at the same time.

I don't have a problem attaching academic requirements to SMART. I do, however, have a problem with a state putting up roadblocks to high school bowling (as has happened here in Alabama) and then taxing SMART money. That's abusing power, IMO.

Jess

idriveahonda

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 05:10:15 PM »
Why should 22 year olds be concerned with getting scholarships to college on bowling?  They should  be GRADUATING at that age.  I am 22, and graduate college in a month and a half.

If bowling is the only reason they would be going to college, then they are not deserving that scholarship in the first place.  They should be offered to those who show outstanding achievement in the sport, up to the age of 18, in which they would be heading off to college.

I'm all for the classification of "junior" stopping at the age of 18, which it is in many other sports, golf included.  If I were to be playing in golf tournaments right now (as a college player) against those of a younger age, 18, I would DESTROY them.

Just some thoughts.

Edited on 3/4/2009 6:11 PM

JessN16

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 05:13:46 PM »
quote:
Why should 22 year olds be concerned with getting scholarships to college on bowling?  They should  be GRADUATING at that age.  I am 22, and graduate college in a month and a half.

If bowling is the only reason they would be going to college, then they are not deserving that scholarship in the first place.  They should be offered to those who show outstanding achievement in the sport, up to the age of 18, in which they would be heading off to college.

I'm all for the classification of "junior" stopping at the age of 18, which it is in many other sports, golf included.  If I were to be playing in golf tournaments right now (as a college player) against those of a younger age, 18, I would DESTROY them.

Just some thoughts.

Edited on 3/4/2009 6:11 PM


Yeah, I skipped over that part. The age restriction is not a problem for me, IMO. I was addressing the issues of taxing benefits/NCAA.

Jess

wphill02

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 06:44:53 PM »
quote:


I'm all for the classification of "junior" stopping at the age of 18, which it is in many other sports, golf included.  If I were to be playing in golf tournaments right now (as a college player) against those of a younger age, 18, I would DESTROY them.

Just some thoughts.

Edited on 3/4/2009 6:11 PM


Wow so I guess you would destroy Danny Lee and Rory McIlroy who are 18 and 19 respectively who have won european golf tour events? And I guess people like Andrew Koff who was 15 or 16 during the U.S. Open(bowling) last year and finished 25th shouldn't bother bowling tournaments like this until they are at least 19 or 20 otherwise they'll get destroyed.  Look if you think the age limit should be lowered then that's your opinion and that's fine, but whether the age is 21 or 18 or whatever there will always be someone with a perceived physical advantage.  I've also been beat by enough 14, 15 and 16 year olds to know that the advantage is minimal.

Regarding the scholarships, why shouldn't 21-22 year olds be eligible to keep receiving scholarship money? Next year I'll be a senior in college and be 22 and every little bit I can get will help.  It's not like the scholarship money has to be in your possession before you enter school.  Once you show them that you've paid for school then you can collect your money up to that amount.  

My question is why does bowling have to be like every other sport?  Bowling is bowling and shouldn't have to worry about what the other sports are doing.  If a youth golfer wants to win scholarship money then he should start bowling.  Bowling shouldn't be penalized just because golf or some other sport doesn't give out scholarship money to youth.  Those who play the other sports also have many more opportunities to get a scholarship from a school for the sport they play then bowlers do.  What USBC should do with he SMART program is force kids to maintain a certain GPA in order to receive their scholarship money like those who run the JBT organizations force you to do.  Then the bowlers will still need to do well in school to receive any of the scholarship money that they earned through bowling.

EagleHunter

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 09:19:49 PM »
Here is the quick answer...the other sports are actual SPORTS at this point in history.  Bowling is but a recreation.  So if bowling was smart, it would try to be a SPORT rather than a recreation.

At our townhall, a gentleman stood up and complained that the State High School association was discriminating against bowling.  He argued that the State wanted to treat bowling and football as one in the same.  That the athletes from both sports were to be treated equally.  His argument was that football is so tough and bowling isn't like that at all.

The USBC Rep said to him "be careful with what you're saying...we want bowling to be a SPORT, yet here you are claiming that it really isn't" since it isn't like football.

Other SPORTS abide by certain rules that almost ALL of them follow.  If bowling wants to be SPORT then it better follow them as well.

JessN16

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 09:35:16 PM »
Unless there's a major difference in whatever rules govern the youth and the ones that govern the adults that I'm not aware of, I don't see there being an issue with different rules. What are you referring to?

Jess

EagleHunter

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 09:59:06 PM »
I was still talking about the rules that all other SPORTS follow with regards to the topic of this post...youth scholarships.

JessN16

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 10:10:17 PM »
quote:
I was still talking about the rules that all other SPORTS follow with regards to the topic of this post...youth scholarships.



Well, that's chicken-and-egg. The reason SMART exists is because there's been no HS platform to get kids off and running to college on a college's dime, so bowling came up with the best thing it could do. If more states adopted HS bowling, there wouldn't be a need for the youth program. But you can't drop SMART entirely unless there's a safety net to catch these folks. There needs to be a coordinated transition.

Jess

idriveahonda

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 10:12:49 PM »
quote:
quote:


I'm all for the classification of "junior" stopping at the age of 18, which it is in many other sports, golf included.  If I were to be playing in golf tournaments right now (as a college player) against those of a younger age, 18, I would DESTROY them.

Just some thoughts.

Edited on 3/4/2009 6:11 PM


Wow so I guess you would destroy Danny Lee and Rory McIlroy who are 18 and 19 respectively who have won european golf tour events? And I guess people like Andrew Koff who was 15 or 16 during the U.S. Open(bowling) last year and finished 25th shouldn't bother bowling tournaments like this until they are at least 19 or 20 otherwise they'll get destroyed.  Look if you think the age limit should be lowered then that's your opinion and that's fine, but whether the age is 21 or 18 or whatever there will always be someone with a perceived physical advantage.  I've also been beat by enough 14, 15 and 16 year olds to know that the advantage is minimal.

Regarding the scholarships, why shouldn't 21-22 year olds be eligible to keep receiving scholarship money? Next year I'll be a senior in college and be 22 and every little bit I can get will help.  It's not like the scholarship money has to be in your possession before you enter school.  Once you show them that you've paid for school then you can collect your money up to that amount.  

My question is why does bowling have to be like every other sport?  Bowling is bowling and shouldn't have to worry about what the other sports are doing.  If a youth golfer wants to win scholarship money then he should start bowling.  Bowling shouldn't be penalized just because golf or some other sport doesn't give out scholarship money to youth.  Those who play the other sports also have many more opportunities to get a scholarship from a school for the sport they play then bowlers do.  What USBC should do with he SMART program is force kids to maintain a certain GPA in order to receive their scholarship money like those who run the JBT organizations force you to do.  Then the bowlers will still need to do well in school to receive any of the scholarship money that they earned through bowling.


The hell are you talking about?  Just because you are classified as a "junior" doesn't mean you can't compete at a HIGHER level...are you confused?  You can be a "junior" golfer, qualify for Nationwide Tour tournaments (golf), and play.  What did that babbling you said have anything to do with what I said?

Point is, the classification of "junior" should be 0 - 18 years of age.  Once you are older, you are an adult, and no longer should be eligible for junior tournaments.  Common sense and very straightforward.

wphill02

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Re: Youth Bowling Scholarships - Discussion from Townhall Mtg
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 10:28:45 PM »
idriveahonda,

You said, "If I were to be playing in golf tournaments right now (as a college player) against those of a younger age, 18, I would DESTROY them." To me that is saying that 18 year olds shouldn't even bother playing against college aged players or older because they obviously won't be good enough.  Sorry if I misinterpreted but that's what I got out of it.