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they should go to storm or ebo
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they should go to storm or ebo
If you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, your opinions are invalid.
This is a question concerning Mo-Rich, and is in the Mo-Rich forum. I''''''''m sure your comments would be appreciated more elsewhere.
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Good transactions list in my profile
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starting with the LevRG the huge market for these balls were how you could drill them and they be totally different with different layouts. Watch any of the videos on their site and you'll see 2 of whatever ball one strong one weak to show how different reaction you can get with the same ball with different layouts.... your ave joe blow customer isn't goin to be buying 2 high end of the same ball 99% of the time. Combine the sensitivity of the layout to alot of pro shop operators that don't take the time to measure tilt/rotation/PAP and you get balls reacting a way the customer didn't want, thus a "DUD" just my theory about why these balls are not as popular.
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The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
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Morich is being pured by 900Global today not brunswick anymore
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Morich is being pured by 900Global today not brunswick anymore
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If you try drilling a ball to get down the lane it will, Their are layouts designed for that.
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IMHO, the are excellent ball, but VERY drill sensitive
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Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..
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IMHO, the are excellent ball, but VERY drill sensitive
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Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..
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One can also say that it requires something other than an IQ equal to the size of your shoe to properly game plan, lay out, and drill a bowling ball. Not a knock on any one person but you're sure as hell not a pro in the pro shop business simply 'cause you bought a drill press. The number of people that fail to identify a customer's needs before putting holes in a ball are astounding.
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Well, I was leery also about Morich stuff. I bought a Brunswick Wild Ride, and it was the worst ball I ever used. So, I was looking for a new ball, and I wanted to know if Brunswick/Morich had improved their covers. So I went to the source on the Morich chat line. First I got the run around from others wanting to know my PAP, Rev Rate, etc. Finally MO himself got on their. He basically admitted that yes the Wild Ride wasn't what it was suppose to be (in fact another person got on there and stated the insiders called it the Mild Ride). By reading between the lines I figured that they (Brunswick/Morich) did have some below par covers. MO did tell me that they do use some of the identical covers as Brunswick on some of their Balls (usually lower performing stuff), but on their High end stuff they tweak the formula per Morich's specs. As far as Ebonite, I had some real duds with them, but I did have some good ones too. It was like a crap shoot with them. Inconsistent at best.
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Breezy (gdog)
'if" the pro shops would do more than just drill up a ball the way the customers want...then we would "not" be having this discussion!!!!!how many times have you seen people just get balls drilled up without the pro shop guy watching him/her bowl to find out if they are throwing the ball correctly or throwing the ball so flawed no matter what ball they throw it would be a turd!!!!when you have a truly professional pro shop and a guy who cares more about the customer than the customer's money you will find the customer happy and the pro shop happy!!!too many pro shops are just taking money instead of educating the bowling public!!!
starting with the LevRG the huge market for these balls were how you could drill them and they be totally different with different layouts. Watch any of the videos on their site and you'll see 2 of whatever ball one strong one weak to show how different reaction you can get with the same ball with different layouts.... your ave joe blow customer isn't goin to be buying 2 high end of the same ball 99% of the time. Combine the sensitivity of the layout to alot of pro shop operators that don't take the time to measure tilt/rotation/PAP and you get balls reacting a way the customer didn't want, thus a "DUD" just my theory about why these balls are not as popular.BINGO we have a winner here....Simply put, Morich tends to make 2+2=4 the hard way...
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The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
starting with the LevRG the huge market for these balls were how you could drill them and they be totally different with different layouts. Watch any of the videos on their site and you'll see 2 of whatever ball one strong one weak to show how different reaction you can get with the same ball with different layouts.... your ave joe blow customer isn't goin to be buying 2 high end of the same ball 99% of the time. Combine the sensitivity of the layout to alot of pro shop operators that don't take the time to measure tilt/rotation/PAP and you get balls reacting a way the customer didn't want, thus a "DUD" just my theory about why these balls are not as popular.BINGO we have a winner here....Simply put, Morich tends to make 2+2=4 the hard way...
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The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
They want you to take 32 and divide it by 2 to= 16...Then add 4 to=20, then divide that by 5 to = 4..
When most pro shops already know that 2+2 will = 4...
drawing all those lines all over the ball... Come on, that was a little over kill...
Most pro shops simply Don't have the time to spend an hour laying out and drilling a ball...
Not in today's ECONOMY...
Sure if you are drilling a ball for Joe Pro Tour, maybe...But lets get real here...
Most bowlers are not Joe pro's...
You can fit them and properly lay out a ball for them in less time...
Many drillers I have talked too all said pretty much the same thing...
Morich makes it way to complicated...
and that is why so MANY shops stop carrying them...
Now I'm sure someone will come on and say you need to take three days to properly lay out a ball..."Cause that's the way my guy does it" IN HIS BASEMENT... :D ;) :)
You must watch the bowler eat drink and sleep to make sure you have his PAP...Then you must drill him a plastic ball to make sure his PAP is right...
Then you must watch him bowl for 6 hours so you can see his style...
And then and only then can you drill him a ball...
Which you may make $25-$50 on....
Get real already
For all you people who think a pro shop needs to spend HOURS to properly
drill your ball...Why don't you open a pro shop and DO THAT...
And get back to US on how well you are doing...
Cause "AIN'T" no way you will survive drilling one ball in six hours...
while making about $30-$50 on it...
Talk is CHEAP...
So chop chop... Open a shop, order Morich balls and get back to us with
a progress report...
Ya like that will ever happen... :) ;) ;D
Talk is cheap... :D :)
JLS the big proshop guy is now saying the the dual angle method is too much work? And the proshop guy shouldn't watch you throw the ball to help get an idea on how he may want to drill the ball for you? I'm assuming that is because you don't need to know their PAP is why? Ouch!!!! Hard to speak up for your shop and all your "services" when you choose not to do the bare minimum for the "customer" who is paying for the "experience" you speak of.Actually you are putting words into my mouth... Never said that...What I said
(Pound keys here)
Having a general idea of the bowlers style and ability goes along ways in laying out a bowling ball for someone. The dual angle method literally takes a minute to do laying out a ball. Yes there are 5 total lines vs 1 but it is like connect the dots and literally takes a minute to do.
I agree the bowling balls today literally are idiot proof. Still taking the extra minute or two to make sure and know the bowlers pap and style of bowling before drilling said idiot proof ball is not asking too much.
As mentioned earlier, your options in most places are 1) pin up 2) pin down
JLS the big proshop guy is now saying the the dual angle method is too much work? And the proshop guy shouldn't watch you throw the ball to help get an idea on how he may want to drill the ball for you? I'm assuming that is because you don't need to know their PAP is why? Ouch!!!! Hard to speak up for your shop and all your "services" when you choose not to do the bare minimum for the "customer" who is paying for the "experience" you speak of.Actually you are putting words into my mouth... Never said that...What I said
(Pound keys here)
Having a general idea of the bowlers style and ability goes along ways in laying out a bowling ball for someone. The dual angle method literally takes a minute to do laying out a ball. Yes there are 5 total lines vs 1 but it is like connect the dots and literally takes a minute to do.
I agree the bowling balls today literally are idiot proof. Still taking the extra minute or two to make sure and know the bowlers pap and style of bowling before drilling said idiot proof ball is not asking too much.
As mentioned earlier, your options in most places are 1) pin up 2) pin down
was that the consumer expects a pro shop to spend HOURS drilling one ball...
And that is not possible if one is in a SHOP...Now maybe for guys like you that
work out of your garage that's OK...You don't pay rent...
Try opening a shop and pay rent and get back to me with how spending Hours to drill a ball works out...
It's people like you that give REAL pro shops a bad name...And CERTAIN companies that SELL to you even tho you are not a pro shop, are not helping...
Reading is a skill...I said clearly a real pro shop can fit and drill a ball under 4 hours...
You come on and make Keyboard Pounders think that they are getting screwed by real pro shops if they don't spend BOO KOO hours drilling their ball and charge only $25...Like you basement ball drillers do...
And I never said it took too long to lay a ball out...what I said was the
consumer thinks it should take a shop hours to lay out and drill a ball...and all for less than $50..
Open a real shop and lets see how much time you take...
Until then STFU....
nice try, trying to TWIST AND TURN what I posted...
Now why don't you come on and post how you are able to buy all of the
packages Ebonite sells...Track, Hammer, Columbia and Ebonite...EVEN
THO YOU ARE NOT A PRO SHOP....
LIKE YOU HAVE DONE MANY TIMES IN THE PAST...
LIKE I SAID, IT'S BASEMENT BALL DRILLERS LIKE YOU THAT GIVE REAL
PRO SHOPS A BLACK EYE...
Now I couldn't help but notice that THERE WERE NO POST ON THIS SITE SINCE
MAY...TIL I POSTED...
I'M SO GLAD THAT I WOKE UP ALL YOU MORICH GUYS...
AT LEAST YOU ARE NOW POSTING...
my work here is done...
starting with the LevRG the huge market for these balls were how you could drill them and they be totally different with different layouts. Watch any of the videos on their site and you'll see 2 of whatever ball one strong one weak to show how different reaction you can get with the same ball with different layouts.... your ave joe blow customer isn't goin to be buying 2 high end of the same ball 99% of the time. Combine the sensitivity of the layout to alot of pro shop operators that don't take the time to measure tilt/rotation/PAP and you get balls reacting a way the customer didn't want, thus a "DUD" just my theory about why these balls are not as popular.BINGO we have a winner here....Simply put, Morich tends to make 2+2=4 the hard way...
--------------------
The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
They want you to take 32 and divide it by 2 to= 16...Then add 4 to=20, then divide that by 5 to = 4..
When most pro shops already know that 2+2 will = 4...
drawing all those lines all over the ball... Come on, that was a little over kill...
Most pro shops simply Don't have the time to spend an hour laying out and drilling a ball...
Not in today's ECONOMY...
Sure if you are drilling a ball for Joe Pro Tour, maybe...But lets get real here...
Most bowlers are not Joe pro's...
You can fit them and properly lay out a ball for them in less time...
Many drillers I have talked too all said pretty much the same thing...
Morich makes it way to complicated...
and that is why so MANY shops stop carrying them...
Now I'm sure someone will come on and say you need to take three days to properly lay out a ball..."Cause that's the way my guy does it" IN HIS BASEMENT... :D ;) :)
You must watch the bowler eat drink and sleep to make sure you have his PAP...Then you must drill him a plastic ball to make sure his PAP is right...
Then you must watch him bowl for 6 hours so you can see his style...
And then and only then can you drill him a ball...
Which you may make $25-$50 on....
Get real already
For all you people who think a pro shop needs to spend HOURS to properly
drill your ball...Why don't you open a pro shop and DO THAT...
And get back to US on how well you are doing...
Cause "AIN'T" no way you will survive drilling one ball in six hours...
while making about $30-$50 on it...
Talk is CHEAP...
So chop chop... Open a shop, order Morich balls and get back to us with
a progress report...
Ya like that will ever happen... :) ;) ;D
Talk is cheap... :D :)
You don't have to spend however many hours that jls stated on a customer to make them feel like they're getting a good deal. I used to spend an hour with the customer the first time, take them on the lane, let them warm up while i did something else in the shop, watch what their equipment was doing, discuss what they wanted, go back in the shop, pick a ball, choose a layout, and away we went. In that hours, I got his pap, showed that he was important to me as a customer, got a good read on what the guy wanted, and lined him up with the best ball I could recommend.Customer's deserve enough time to get the job done right...
After that, I didn't have to spend all that much time with them when they wanted something else. It went something like this. "Ball A you drilled me is great, but I want something else, to fill a hole in my bag." How about Ball B? "If you think that's the best choice, put holes in it."
Customers deserve your time. Now, if you work in a standalone shop, you're limited. Nice part is you don't have to worry about the center, but the bad part is that you don't have to worry about the center. It's a double edged sword.
JLS QUOTES:THIS IS JUST PLAIN SILLY...
Most pro shops simply Don't have the time to spend an hour laying out and drilling a ball...<<<THIS IS TRUE... the whole process of
helping the customer pick out an ball, fitted them, laying it out, telling them
how you are laying it out and why, drilling the ball and adjusting it, should take
about 45 minutes to an hour...
Not in today's ECONOMY...VERY TRUE...
You can fit them and properly lay out a ball for them in less time...YES
Many drillers I have talked too all said pretty much the same thing...
Morich makes it way to complicated...
and that is why so MANY shops stop carrying them...YES THIS IS WHAT I HAVE HEARD AND SEEN...
Not putting words in your mouth but what you said seems to be that dual angle is basically overkill and that apparently people stopped carrying Morich balls because of the drill instructions that are included in the box being too complicated???<<<AGAIN THIS MAY BE TRUE...FOR SOME SHOPS, NOT ALL...
You also said that taking an hour to layout and drill a ball is too long. YES... YOUR REPEATING YOURSELF
So how long does it take you to layout and drill said ball for someone? You should be able to discuss what condition they need a ball for, fit them and lay it out and drill in about 45 minutes to 1 Hour...
I'm not suggesting nor reading on here anyone saying take 3 plus hours to layout and drill a ball. Literally an extra 5-10 minutes if you don't know a bowlers style or pap on top of your normal drill time is very little to ask. NO NOT LAYING OUT... WATCHING THEM BOWL FOR A HALF HOUR BEFORE AND MAYBE A HALF HOUR AFTERWARDS...
AND ALL OF THIS FOR $25...
Since I drill for me and me only and get great service every time I guess I am giving brick and mortar shops a bad name. At least I know I will get what I want and have it done right. I still get all the great EBI packs when need for resale in case your wondering. I don't discourage anyone from buying at their local shop. If you dont like their service you should go elsewhere. The biggest mark up in any business is in accessories not the main product. If you can get a better deal online I say go for it. YET YOU ARE NOT A PRO SHOP...
EBI also has a great product you should love for laying out bowling balls in their Blueprint program. It is all that overkill you love from your favorite pro brick and mortar company.
I would never own a proshop or any business in this economy and salute those who do. To suggest the consumer doesn't deserve the extra time when needed is absurd and you are the one making your business look bad by saying as much. Apply that to any other business you go to and see if you would continue giving them your service if they said: no one suggested that... but WATCHING SOMEONE BOWL FOR HOURS IS A BIT OUT OF LINE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HEAR, "MY GUY CHARGES $25"
"sorry we could have done it better with an extra 5-10 minutes but we chose not to."
Someone mentioned a chart on all this. Can u post a link to the chart. I need to really learn how to map stuff out correctly for my game instead of just slapping a drilling on them. IM to old school and need to refresh myself on updated cores/coverstocks and how they would work best for my game. I get lucky every once in a while.
Righty,
Wrong. When their pap doesn't match up to the pap that they use in the drilling instructions, and they want it to look just like that, either you're going to piss the person off, lose a customer, and get a bad rep, or you can explain that they're just suggested, and that you will drill it personally, for their release, and it may not end up looking like that. Or, if you know that it's not the right drilling for their game, talk to them about why it isn't the best layout for them. If they still insist, drill it for them, but I used to mark on the sheet "Customer demanded layout".
It's the job of the pro shop operator to not let the customer shoot themselves in the foot easily.
For example, I had a guy come into my shop back when internet balls were just starting, and the Orange Piranha was the ball to have. 1 inch pin, 4oz of top. Guy wanted it to go long, snap hard. Told him that the drilling he wanted wasn't possible with the ball.
Another example. Guy came into another shop I ran, was throwing a Puma drilled with the pin next to ring, cg in grip. Wasn't working in the house my shop was in, so he wanted something that hooked lots more. I did drill him up a V2 with a modified rev leverage layout, and dude got mad that I put an extra hole in the ball. "No one else has extra holes in their balls!"
Righty,
Wrong. When their pap doesn't match up to the pap that they use in the drilling instructions, and they want it to look just like that, either you're going to piss the person off, lose a customer, and get a bad rep, or you can explain that they're just suggested, and that you will drill it personally, for their release, and it may not end up looking like that. Or, if you know that it's not the right drilling for their game, talk to them about why it isn't the best layout for them. If they still insist, drill it for them, but I used to mark on the sheet "Customer demanded layout".
It's the job of the pro shop operator to not let the customer shoot themselves in the foot easily.
For example, I had a guy come into my shop back when internet balls were just starting, and the Orange Piranha was the ball to have. 1 inch pin, 4oz of top. Guy wanted it to go long, snap hard. Told him that the drilling he wanted wasn't possible with the ball.
Another example. Guy came into another shop I ran, was throwing a Puma drilled with the pin next to ring, cg in grip. Wasn't working in the house my shop was in, so he wanted something that hooked lots more. I did drill him up a V2 with a modified rev leverage layout, and dude got mad that I put an extra hole in the ball. "No one else has extra holes in their balls!"
Here's the link to the wiki. All the information and more than youll ever need, lol!