BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Motiv => Topic started by: machine189 on July 06, 2016, 09:33:22 AM
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Every once and a while a ball company develops a ball that just shines. It increases you mistake room and just seems to carry those less than perfect hits. It’s easy to read and you always know what it’s going to do. That time when a bowler and a ball create a bond that no pin can stop them from achieving greatness. Ladies and gentlemen MOTIV has done just that with the FORZA GT. I am beyond impressed with this balls versatility on THS, USBC Blue, Kegel Winding road. If the Venom Shock is to MOTIV what the HYROAD is to Storm, Then the FORZA GT is what the GAMEBREAKER was to EBONITE. Diamond in the rough here! ;D
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Spoken like a true staffer !!
Lane conditions increase mistake room for instance
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Agreed. In light of recent announcements, I'd rate that "review" as being right up there with "Clinton's innocent".
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He's not a staff member. Read his other posts. He popped an 8 series a while back with a Joy ride. The GT is for real, even from is non staffers. I had 4 dropped shipped from Motiv. All 4 sold and all 4 are happy customers.
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I can't speak for luv, but as for me, I am SO SICK AND TIRED of hearing this single paragraph Wow, you gotta have it bulls$%t. No reasons, no facts, no examples, just pure sugar.
#Ivehadenough
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I totally agree with you lefty50, I was just being a little more P.C. about my opinion
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I know this ball is slated for medium conditions but could it handle med/ heavy?
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I use to bowl a Pba experience league on Sunday mornings and used a Hyroad solid on the badger pattern with success. It was sanded at 360 grit though. Surface is always key !
So it may be possible
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He's not a staff member. Read his other posts. He popped an 8 series a while back with a Joy ride. The GT is for real, even from is non staffers. I had 4 dropped shipped from Motiv. All 4 sold and all 4 are happy customers.
Thanks for seeing that I appreciate that. The ride series are great pieces as well as my favorite
I can't speak for luv, but as for me, I am SO SICK AND TIRED of hearing this single paragraph Wow, you gotta have it bulls$%t. No reasons, no facts, no examples, just pure sugar.
#Ivehadenough
I'm no staffer My freaking avatar is a storm piece and honestly still think the rides are best balls out but under rated. If you didn't like how I feel about the ball and how valuable I think it will be then you didn't need to reply and you want a good reason then fine ITS blue you need a blue ball.
For everyone else I was just having fun about the post I WAS excited to share. I don't get paid for advertising just though i'd share.
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I just don't understand how people get upset over the people's reviews of balls on Ballreviews.com. It's right in the URL, people...
Want professionally done reviews? Subscribe to BTM and BJI.
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Spoken like a true staffer !!
Lane conditions increase mistake room for instance
Agreed. In light of recent announcements, I'd rate that "review" as being right up there with "Clinton's innocent".
Do you guys every contribute anything to the forum?
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Apparently Hanks hasn't read to many staffer reviews.Go read a couple dozen of them Hank,then get back to us
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And personal, all the time CT3
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I think the problem on this site is average bowlers (non-staffer) aren't writing reviews. And those that do aren't producing a valuable asset for other non-staffers.
In today's age of information, everyone wants to know everything. Unfortunately, we all aren't great reporters of information. I like to think I can give valuable information, but my one and only ball review years ago is horrible.
I don't think there would be as much outrage if there were negative reviews by staffers. But unfortunately there aren't many.
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Apparently Hanks hasn't read to many staffer reviews.Go read a couple dozen of them Hank,then get back to us
Ive been here a long time, and I've read plenty. It has been more than enough to figure out that most people aren't very good writers and that the more descriptive information I want is much easier to get if I simply ask for it on the forum or through PM. But please, feel free to keep whining instead of simply asking questions that might actually be productive and useful.
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I still completely agree with luv. Looks to me like the rest of you are missing the point. The review itself was worthless other than the humor value in "bond between man and ball". My point remains. Anyone who can count that as a valid post, and not something we all haven't seen on here a thousand useless times, really DOES think Clinton's innocent. No one else is that stupid.
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That’s why writing a true review is a LOT of freaking work.
You need to use the ball with at least 2 different drillings and on at least 3 different oil patterns and you need to compare it to at least 2 other related balls with the same drillings and surfaces.
Not only does the actual testing take a lot of work, the writing and the analysis take even more time and work. This is why I stopped doing them – it’s a full time job and no one pays a red cent.
Show me 2 people who do that regularly and I'll tell you they work for BTM and BJI.
I did 2 of them about 10 years ago and and stopped.
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I still completely agree with luv. Looks to me like the rest of you are missing the point. The review itself was worthless other than the humor value in "bond between man and ball". My point remains. Anyone who can count that as a valid post, and not something we all haven't seen on here a thousand useless times, really DOES think Clinton's innocent. No one else is that stupid.
Well until balls are no longer round most review like you claim will be useless now if what your looking for is negative reviews then I can throw some balls under the bus (forza redline, Storm Lock, GB2 Gold). I'm not sell this expensive 15lb of $20 resin materials Lighten up. Just an opinion
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thanks for the review Machine189
I like to see what non-staffers are saying about gear, even if it short and to the point
so far, I've like everything I've gotten for my self and daughters from Motiv and am looking heavy at the GT
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I personally think the best thing to do is watch a ball on the lane from different styles. I know that's hard to do some times and also takes time to see.Also try to see "Said ball" on something other than a house shot, probably even harder to see. Patience may save you some money
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I personally think the best thing to do is watch a ball on the lane from different styles. I know that's hard to do some times and also takes time to see. Also try to see "Said ball" on something other than a house shot, probably even harder to see. Patience may save you some money
To expand on the above statement, it's very telling to see what's being used at professional level tournaments. I bowled in three of the PBA50/USBC tournaments last month, which included hundreds of bowlers. Two of those tournaments had squads of fresh, burn and double burn. If there was an opportunity to use a Forza (any model), there was definitely a condition to pull it out of a bag. When I wasn't bowling, I was watching, and I didn't see one Forza being used. It didn't mean that someone didn't throw one, but it would have been almost non-existent at best.
I'm not trying to pick on the Forza. There are a lot of balls that get tons of great press on THS settings that are MIA on PBA/Sport conditions. That's because a skilled bowler can make almost anything work on a THS. House shots largely mask the differences between balls, and it's largely the reason you'll see everything from dull oil monsters to skid/flip pearls being successfully used.
Keep this in perspective when evaluating equipment.
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Thank you for that expansion Steven
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I personally think the best thing to do is watch a ball on the lane from different styles. I know that's hard to do some times and also takes time to see. Also try to see "Said ball" on something other than a house shot, probably even harder to see. Patience may save you some money
To expand on the above statement, it's very telling to see what's being used at professional level tournaments. I bowled in three of the PBA50/USBC tournaments last month, which included hundreds of bowlers. Two of those tournaments had squads of fresh, burn and double burn. If there was an opportunity to use a Forza (any model), there was definitely a condition to pull it out of a bag. When I wasn't bowling, I was watching, and I didn't see one Forza being used. It didn't mean that someone didn't throw one, but it would have been almost non-existent at best.
I'm not trying to pick on the Forza. There are a lot of balls that get tons of great press on THS settings that are MIA on PBA/Sport conditions. That's because a skilled bowler can make almost anything work on a THS. House shots largely mask the differences between balls, and it's largely the reason you'll see everything from dull oil monsters to skid/flip pearls being successfully used.
Keep this in perspective when evaluating equipment.
And what do you perceive the reason a ball like the Forza wasn't being used? Are you insinuating it performs poorly on shots you bowled on? Regional preferences are still prevalent in a lot of areas. Just because you don't see a ball being used doesn't mean it isn't a good ball. After all, the original Forza has a televised 300 under its belt.
And this is where sites like this become valuable. It exposes bowlers to equipment they may not see in their area for whatever reason. Most pro shops are staffers with the 3 major companies (Storm, Brunswick, EBI) so those balls are pushed more at those locations. Some even are restricted on what they can have on the shelf from other manufacturers.
I can also see value in having just THS conditions used for evaluating some balls. A majority of bowlers don't bowl on sport conditions or at tournaments with difficult conditions. So seeing a ball used on 52 foot sport or 32 foot sport patterns won't do them any good. Even seeing the ball on sport shots with lengths equal to their THS won't be as helpful.
Just realize there is value in those reviews only on THS. May not be as valuable to you or a lot of bowlers on this site, but there is value.
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"And what do you perceive the reason a ball like the Forza wasn't being used? Are you insinuating it performs poorly on shots you bowled on? Regional preferences are still prevalent in a lot of areas. Just because you don't see a ball being used doesn't mean it isn't a good ball. "
The three tournaments I referenced were the Senior US Open, the Super Senior Classic, and the Senior Masters -- all hosted in Las Vegas. Participants where from all over the US, and also included several international players from Europe, Asia and South America. From a laboratory perspective, this was as diverse a bowler base as you'll see in any set of tournaments. "Regional preferences" definitely didn't come into play.
As I said, I have nothing against Motiv or the Forza. One of the balls I brought was a Venom Strike because of it's predictability and even rolling characteristics. Overall, I throw different company equipment that I thinks works -- I'm not a staffer.
I simply stated what I observed. If a certain ball isn't being thrown across fresh, burn and double burn on a flatter 40' pattern, it probably means the vast majority of participants (who have a significant money investment at stake) didn't believe it's the best choice. If you believe different, state your belief and rationalizations.
We agree there is value in evaluating a ball just on THS conditions, but acknowledge the limitations of such a review. That's all I'm suggesting.
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"And what do you perceive the reason a ball like the Forza wasn't being used? Are you insinuating it performs poorly on shots you bowled on? Regional preferences are still prevalent in a lot of areas. Just because you don't see a ball being used doesn't mean it isn't a good ball. "
The three tournaments I referenced were the Senior US Open, the Super Senior Classic, and the Senior Masters -- all hosted in Las Vegas. Participants where from all over the US, and also included several international players from Europe, Asia and South America. From a laboratory perspective, this was as diverse a bowler base as you'll see in any set of tournaments. "Regional preferences" definitely didn't come into play.
As I said, I have nothing against Motiv or the Forza. One of the balls I brought was a Venom Strike because of it's predictability and even rolling characteristics. Overall, I throw different company equipment that I thinks works -- I'm not a staffer.
I simply stated what I observed. If a certain ball isn't being thrown across fresh, burn and double burn on a flatter 40' pattern, it probably means the vast majority of participants (who have a significant money investment at stake) didn't believe it's the best choice. If you believe different, state your belief and rationalizations.
We agree there is value in evaluating a ball just on THS conditions, but acknowledge the limitations of such a review. That's all I'm suggesting.
I actually largely agree with you, I put some stock into what staffers trust when money is actually on the line. Tournaments are also a great opportunity to get staffers real opinion on a ball.
That said, in this case I think there is a reason that may explain the lack of Forza GTs on the lanes... For us non-staffers, it doesn't come out for another week.
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I actually largely agree with you, I put some stock into what staffers trust when money is actually on the line. Tournaments are also a great opportunity to get staffers real opinion on a ball.
That said, in this case I think there is a reason that may explain the lack of Forza GTs on the lanes... For us non-staffers, it doesn't come out for another week.
I think what you stated is key. Most of the guys participating had up to $2,000 (or more) invested in the Vegas tournaments. Unless you were Norm Duke, Walter Ray Williams, Parker Bohn, and a smattering of other high profile players, you were using what you thought would score best. Most of the Motiv staffers I watched were using Revolts or Shocks, with the majority being Revolts. Given the stakes and actual performance potential, it was hard to argue with the choices.
It can't be emphasized enough how much a THS masks specific ball characteristics and overall potential. My two THS honor scores this year have been with a Storm IQ Tour Pearl (1500 grit polished) and a Columbia 300 Swerve (500-2000 grit dull). These two balls are as different as night and day, but all the same, THS successful. Ironically, I didn't bring either to the Vegas tournaments.
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Some balls are made for sport, some for ths. If 90% of bowlers bowl on ths, why not produce more balls for this? Just look at the Phaze. We saw dozens of complaints here on br because it wasn't your typical Storm motion. But it was a ball made for sport.
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Well coming from one of the few people who loved the forza redline I will definitely be getting this one next week. I think the motion on the redline is a beautiful even but powerful move throughout the lane. To me Motiv balls fit right in between Storm and Brunswick type motion. Storm being the most skid flip type reactions and Brunswick be more midlane heavy rolling motions. After having bought the Redline and Shock I am a firm believer in their products and will be ordering more in the near future.
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Just as balls have become so technical, so must any reviews of them be technical as well.
The days of reviews like "This blue hammer is amazing, it outhooks my black hammer by 8 boards" being meaningful went away a loooooooong time ago.
We've all had balls that were great for us personally that weren't all that popular, and we've all had that "great" ball that just didn't work for us.
Take them all with a grain of salt. Much like charlest, I havent done a review in a while, and probably won't, because I really just don't feel qualified to do them properly anymore.
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Did anyone see "review" in the title? or in the Reviews section? This was basically talking about my excitement guess we can even do that without being technical OR bowl league for its enjoyment. Remind me next time your on telecast or win a regional. To everyone else who enjoy a little read and wants to threw whatever they want kudos!
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i just ordered the gt and a paranoia. these are my first 2 tries with motiv equipment and I'm kind of looking forward to a new experience just like I had last year with the ebi balls I drilled. I'm just another hack with no allegiance to any company just some friends who are staffers and I value there opinions on what balls will work best for my game. been doing this game for 40 years but I will never be to old to learn from someone better or smarter than me.
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Ok, for all the people who is complaining about the online reviews, what do you suggest to make them better? What would you like to see?
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Ok, for all the people who is complaining about the online reviews, what do you suggest to make them better? What would you like to see?
(as I posted above) I'd like to see what I think is necessary:
"You need to use the ball with at least 2 different drillings and on at least 3 different oil patterns and you need to compare it to at least 2 other related balls with the same drillings and surfaces. "
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Ok, for all the people who is complaining about the online reviews, what do you suggest to make them better? What would you like to see?
(as I posted above) I'd like to see what I think is necessary:
"You need to use the ball with at least 2 different drillings and on at least 3 different oil patterns and you need to compare it to at least 2 other related balls with the same drillings and surfaces. "
so you have to be on staff. And the readers here do not trust their opinions. Interesting.
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Ok, for all the people who is complaining about the online reviews, what do you suggest to make them better? What would you like to see?
(as I posted above) I'd like to see what I think is necessary:
"You need to use the ball with at least 2 different drillings and on at least 3 different oil patterns and you need to compare it to at least 2 other related balls with the same drillings and surfaces. "
so you have to be on staff. And the readers here do not trust their opinions. Interesting.
"so you have to be on staff. "
Why are you saying that and what is it in response to?
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Ok, for all the people who is complaining about the online reviews, what do you suggest to make them better? What would you like to see?
(as I posted above) I'd like to see what I think is necessary:
"You need to use the ball with at least 2 different drillings and on at least 3 different oil patterns and you need to compare it to at least 2 other related balls with the same drillings and surfaces. "
so you have to be on staff. And the readers here do not trust their opinions. Interesting.
"so you have to be on staff. "
Why are you saying that and what is it in response to?
only staff members drill up 2 of EVERY release. I know I did. Now, it's financially impossible. The cost is too high with too little reward. So staff members have access to these releases at a much cheaper rate. But the readers here do not trust staff reviews. So who are they to trust?
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Ok, for all the people who is complaining about the online reviews, what do you suggest to make them better? What would you like to see?
(as I posted above) I'd like to see what I think is necessary:
"You need to use the ball with at least 2 different drillings and on at least 3 different oil patterns and you need to compare it to at least 2 other related balls with the same drillings and surfaces. "
so you have to be on staff. And the readers here do not trust their opinions. Interesting.
"so you have to be on staff. "
Why are you saying that and what is it in response to?
only staff members drill up 2 of EVERY release. I know I did. Now, it's financially impossible. The cost is too high with too little reward. So staff members have access to these releases at a much cheaper rate. But the readers here do not trust staff reviews. So who are they to trust?
Ok, I get it.
No, I wasn't implying that at all. AS I said in my original post (not just the few words I put in this reply to L3nnon), It is a lot of time and work to do a proper review. Not even the cheap prices of balls for staffers allows them to do what is needed for what I regard as a proper review. That why in my original post I added this:
"Not only does the actual testing take a lot of work, the writing and the analysis take even more time and work. This is why I stopped doing them – it’s a full time job and no one pays a red cent.
Show me 2 people who do that regularly and I'll tell you they work for BTM and BJI.
I did 2 of them about 10 years ago and and stopped. "
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A big thing about a lot of staffer reviews is when you read them and you realize they are nothing but copy/pastes of company marketing materials .
For every good staffer review there's dozens of the ones that go "marketing buzz words, The ball does just what the company said it would, some more marketing buzz words, this is the first ball out of my bag" reviews.