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Author Topic: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process  (Read 34417 times)

LyalC52

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Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« on: March 29, 2016, 02:14:13 PM »
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmy2xnldsl5ha0z/Motiv%20Jackal%20Fair%20Exchange%20Program.pdf?dl=0


uggg this has me a bit frustrated

I don't think I need a heavy oil ball during the summer, so do I wait for the LE ball, or get something I can use during the summer?

what if the LE is junk?
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Beyond Revs Pro Shop -- Staffer
West Valley and Riverton, Utah

 

WOWZERS

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2016, 09:27:29 AM »
Nice response. I can't read it because the image is blocked when I click on the link provided for whatever reason by my browser. So all I have to go off of is when someone said a 1 for 8.

Have a nice day!

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cory867

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2016, 09:35:45 AM »
At the end of the statement it states that if you have less than 8 drilled they will send a lower price point ball to the shop instead of a high price point ball.
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- Cory

WOWZERS

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2016, 09:38:31 AM »
Thanks Cory! Appreciate the info.
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CoorZero

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2016, 11:53:55 AM »
Quote from: spmcgivern on March 30, 2016, 08:11:25 AM
I didn't take the statement as Motiv expecting pro shops to give free drilling.  I think the intent was to supplement pro shop's drilling fees with free ball (for every 8 drilled) in the hopes they give the bowlers a break on those fees.  If I charge $40 to drill, then with Motiv's incentive, maybe I will charge those getting replacements $20.

And I am willing to bet Motiv didn't include the Venom Cobra because they do not yet have the inventory of that ball.  Motiv may be devoting manufacturing time to the replacement LE ball and slightly halting new releases until a batch of LE balls are ready for testing.

This is more along the lines of what I was getting at. I don't think and have never thought the pro shops should be drilling stuff for free. That's not what I got out of the release from Motiv either, but everybody reads things differently. With slugs and grips being included in the box for replacement balls the drillers won't have to include them in the total cost of redrilling the ball which should appease most bowlers affected.
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WOWZERS

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2016, 12:51:47 PM »
L3nn0n

From the very beginning I have stated that Motiv should pay for all drilling expenses on any replacement balls. By only comping 1 ball for every 8 drilled (HP I guess) I demonstrated that a pro shop that normally charges $50 for a blank is LOSING money, so either the PSO is going to eat the difference OR the customer has to pay the rest, which I am on the record for from the beginning as stating that Motiv should pick up the entire balance of any drills on the replacements.

In my opinion, what has ruined this country (assuming you are from the USA) is the fact that we do not hold folks accountable when their actions and their actions alone harm others. Motiv harmed the bowler, and the bowler should be made whole, not hoping the PSO doesn't ask for more $$ from the customer or hoping the customer doesn't mind picking up the difference.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I have mine on this subject. Sorry we don't agree.

Have a nice day!
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Steven

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2016, 01:37:12 PM »
Quote from: WOWZERS on March 30, 2016, 12:51:47 PM

In my opinion, what has ruined this country (assuming you are from the USA) is the fact that we do not hold folks accountable when their actions and their actions alone harm others. Motiv harmed the bowler, and the bowler should be made whole, not hoping the PSO doesn't ask for more $$ from the customer or hoping the customer doesn't mind picking up the difference.


 
Wowzers, well said. And your financial analysis of the burden on the proshop guy is spot on.
 
Motiv is doing the minimum it needs to -- nothing more. There is no need for anyone to go off the edge pretending otherwise.
 

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Malibu300

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2016, 01:49:48 PM »
It appears that Motiv is only going to manufacture one ball (Jackal Carnage, solid) to replace either the Jackal (Pearl) or  the Jackal Carnage (solid). It also appear Motiv has decided not to manufacture a new Jackal (Pearl). Anyone that has a Jackal only resource is to replace it with another ball in their current line up or wait till they make a stronger pearl ball.   

So what are the options for those that bought the Jackal for heavy oil & only want a pearl cover stock?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 01:57:26 PM by Malibu300 »
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tkkshop

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2016, 02:01:53 PM »
Quote from: Malibu300 on March 30, 2016, 01:49:48 PM
It appears that Motiv is only going to manufacture one ball (Jackal Carnage, solid) to replace either the Jackal (Pearl) or  the Jackal Carnage (solid). It also appear Motiv has decided not to manufacture a new Jackal (Pearl). Anyone that has a Jackal only resource is to replace it with another ball in their current line up or wait till they make a stronger pearl ball.   

So what are the options for those that bought the Jackal for heavy oil & only want a pearl cover stock?
up the grit of the LE surface? We don't even know what the LE will be, solid or pearl. Just wait.
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CoorZero

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2016, 02:14:22 PM »
Quote from: Malibu300 on March 30, 2016, 01:49:48 PM
It appears that Motiv is only going to manufacture one ball (Jackal Carnage, solid) to replace either the Jackal (Pearl) or  the Jackal Carnage (solid). It also appear Motiv has decided not to manufacture a new Jackal (Pearl). Anyone that has a Jackal only resource is to replace it with another ball in their current line up or wait till they make a stronger pearl ball.   

So what are the options for those that bought the Jackal for heavy oil & only want a pearl cover stock?

Probably getting an immediate replacement and selling or trading it in for a ball from a different company. If you want a strong pearl that can handle heavy oil I don't think there's anything in the Motiv lineup that comes anywhere close to fitting the bill.

But like the post above this one said we don't really know any details about the new ball they're developing, so it may very well be a pearl. I'm kind of doubting that will be the case though. Maybe a hybrid coverstock if anything.
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Steven

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2016, 02:31:14 PM »
Quote from: tkkshop on March 30, 2016, 02:01:53 PM

up the grit of the LE surface? We don't even know what the LE will be, solid or pearl. Just wait.

Exactly. So no matter what coverstock Motiv chooses, some bowlers are not going to get a close replacement. And they're going to have to wait until the Fall to find out.....
 
It's a bad situation for Motiv, and they have limited ball choice options for keeping affected bowlers happy. I was however hoping they would offer proshops better incentives for their time and labor that will have to be expended. Unfortunately, they're falling short.
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todvan

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2016, 02:35:13 PM »
As a Jackal original owner, I'm hoping the LE will be a hybrid that will work well at  4000 grit.  My other option is to wait and keep the Jackal.

MOTIV/Staffer Question:  If we wait past the May deadline for replacement hoping the Jackal gets reinstated, but it doesn't, will there be another replacement program?  I am guessing that they would offer this, maybe they will have a new non-LE ball by then for the top of the lineup that fills the Jackal spot on the ball guide?  But how long before this would happen?

Should I take the LE and hope it matches the Jackal with a surface adjustment, or wait hoping the Jackal stays legal or get a chance at an even better replacement? 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 02:38:04 PM by todvan »
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spmcgivern

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2016, 03:03:32 PM »
Quote from: WOWZERS on March 30, 2016, 12:51:47 PM
L3nn0n

From the very beginning I have stated that Motiv should pay for all drilling expenses on any replacement balls. By only comping 1 ball for every 8 drilled (HP I guess) I demonstrated that a pro shop that normally charges $50 for a blank is LOSING money, so either the PSO is going to eat the difference OR the customer has to pay the rest, which I am on the record for from the beginning as stating that Motiv should pick up the entire balance of any drills on the replacements.

In my opinion, what has ruined this country (assuming you are from the USA) is the fact that we do not hold folks accountable when their actions and their actions alone harm others. Motiv harmed the bowler, and the bowler should be made whole, not hoping the PSO doesn't ask for more $$ from the customer or hoping the customer doesn't mind picking up the difference.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I have mine on this subject. Sorry we don't agree.

Have a nice day!
Out of curiosity, do you feel it is the manufacturers responsibility to pay the drilling expenses when a ball cracks and is replaced?  What about those rare occasions when a batch of bowling balls does not meet expectations and the manufacturer does good by replacing the ball?

Where in the warranty information does it state the manufacturer is responsible for drilling charges in the event the ball does not meet its obligation?

I understand people are upset they may have to pay to drill their replacement ball.  And I can understand pro shops being upset since they have to jump through hoops to meet the demands of Motiv.  Perhaps customers will stop buying Motiv and perhaps pro shops will stop carrying Motiv.  It is your right to affect change with your wallet.  If you feel Motiv is doing things incorrectly, just don't buy their product.
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TDC57

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2016, 03:07:11 PM »
spmcgivern

I think you are pretty close to spot on with your assessment. Also, this time of year pro shops are not as busy as during the season and in no way do I devaluate the services they provide, but Wowzers (the king of negative thought process) is again overstating part of the situation. The most important thing for the pro shop operator is his time. IT HAS VALUE! The time to lay out a ball and drill it is the most important issue. The wear and tear on drills bits is something to be considered, but not huge. The time to drill a shallow hole to take out the serial number is miniscule. The time to take a picture and attach it to an email is small. When remembering the ball was bought from this shop, it seems Motiv's offer is reasonable. If the ball was bought somewhere else (most likely like Wowzers) it would seem reasonable a reduced drilling fee would help offset the pro shop's cost, but keep a customer. Most of the guys barking are guys who bought the ball from an online dealer and paid to have it drilled. They took the risk, now they're paying for it. It's hard to believe most pro shops that sold the ball are charging for drilling the replacement. Wowzers enjoys making this a bigger issue than it is. He, as has been said before, is probably projecting this negativity because he is secretly a shill for another company wanting to hurt Motiv because of the unbridled success they have been achieving!!

Wowzers, how does this differ from a ball that cracks and is warrantied by the company? Does a pro shop usually charge for drilling the replacement ball if they had sold the original. That wasn't the pro shop's fault either.
 
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WOWZERS

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2016, 04:36:16 PM »
Spm,

I do NOT think a manufacturer should pay for a cracked ball, because we do no tknow why the crack occurred and who is responsible. Was it dull drill bits in the pro shop causing excess heat, how about the pro shop operator drilling too fast, was the fingers or another hole drilled too close to the pin? Was it a manufacturing error or issue that caused the ball to crack, maybe a hole got caught on a screw in the pit at the bowling alley...???

Many reasons I have seen a ball crack from. We cannot pinpoint the issue as to why the cracking occurred.

However, every other ball of the same model is still USBC certified and can be used in any competition.

The Jackals had a manufacturing issue occur at the factory that caused the entire model to lose certification. Nobody's error other than Motiv. Motiv sold a ball that we thought was sanctioned for use in competition, but in reality, the ball was out of spec.

Large difference to me.
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CoorZero

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Re: Jackal and Carnage replacement/stall process
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2016, 04:38:58 PM »
Looks like the form is up. On the Motiv homepage there's a small orange button link in the upper right hand corner that says BALL Exchange. When you click on it there's a list of countries at the bottom of the page, pick yours and fill out the form.
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