Post by: Leroy Taylor on January 12, 2012, 03:29:18 AM
brought my favorite TX1 to practice the other day. Decided I'd take the polish off with an abralon pad when I noticed it had cracked. Struck me as a little odd because it stayed in a climate controlled environment ( my house). Upon closer inspection the crack had originated from the Neo Mark lettering.There were several other areas where the NeoMark lettering and the cover were separating. Appears that over time the coverstock and the lettering separate, thus resulting in cracking.
On one hand the TX1 was several years old, however it didn't have too many games on it. I called Motiv ( actually whatever the company is that owns Motiv and a couple other companies) customer service and the guy I spoke with was professional and I was satisfied with Motiv's response to the issue. He admitted this wasn't uncommon with some of the "earlier" models yet could not tell me if Motiv is currently doing anything differently in 'unifying' the coverstock and NeoMark lettering.
I like my Motiv balls but I'm going to be reluctant to purchase any more unless someone can answer the question...Is Motiv doing / done anything different to correct this issue?
I realize many bowlers don't expect their balls to last 5-6 years but if the product is as high quality as Motiv is touting it to be, shouldn't they last?
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/12/2012 at 12:35 PM
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/12/2012 at 12:37 PM
Post by: TDC57 on January 12, 2012, 02:27:34 PM
Contact Motiv. They had some problems with the early run GT-1s and they sent replacement balls that had the problem corrected. I encourage you to call them and see if anything can be done. They are about as customer friendly a company as it gets.
Post by: Leroy Taylor on January 12, 2012, 03:11:42 PM
I already called them. They offered to sell me some color blems for reasonable. Again, I don't have anything negative to say about Motiv's customer service.They obviously want to stand behind their products even after the warranty is void. BUT that's not the point. I'm wanting to know ( trying to keep it on the DL because maybe they have found out how to correct it) what or if anything is being done differently that will ( even if only in theory) prevent Motiv balls from cracking in this way in the future. The gentleman I spoke with couldn't provide any assurance that corrective matters have been taken.
It's easy to claim that the NeoMark is of superior quality but it appears ( until proven otherwise) that the NeoMark lettering will with time separate from the coverstock and eventually cause cracking. So claiming it is a superior application with a performance advantage is at the very least, questionable ( especially long term).
NOTE: I have always liked my Motiv equipment ( at least on anything short of heavier oil) and am not looking to bad mouth Motiv, only saying that there appears to be a real issue with their NeoMark.
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/12/2012 at 4:15 PM
Post by: StickZ on January 12, 2012, 03:15:39 PM
...wait til Justin sees this topic, he will be able to give you some insite hopefully.
Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774
KiDSGoTGaMe
Post by: scotts33 on January 12, 2012, 04:09:18 PM
Did it crack in the same place? This was an early SX-1 my pro shop operator went back thru the distributor and got full credit as I chose to get a different manufacturer's equipment.
Scott
Post by: Leroy Taylor on January 12, 2012, 04:49:16 PM
It's the same type crack. Starts on the edge ( or in my case you can see razor like separations from several of the NeoMark letters and the cover) and eventually leads to cracking ( like what you have pictured).
It's probably going to keep me from any future Motiv purchases too (still have 4).
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/12/2012 at 5:54 PM
Post by: RLandreneau on January 20, 2012, 02:45:09 PM
My TX1 did this too. Almost exactly as it is in your pic. The logo has seperated from the ball. Still love my motiv, but hope thats the last it ever happens to me.
Post by: noslouch on January 20, 2012, 04:45:11 PM
Gotta get my penneys worth in too. Ball cracking does happen to all brand manufacturers. I loved my SX1 as much as anyone else. It cracked last year all the way around from thumb to fingers. just not in a straight line from outline of the M logo. I had several balls crack on me from certain ball makers that cracked after only a couple of months. Yes, they did get replaced by each manufacturer.
As far as MOTIV equipment goes they are second to none. I have my family hooked on them. a few friends have bought a few after they have been Motivationally lectured of their past relationship and strong support of big "B". These people are new soldiers for Motiv nation. So don't learn to hate. Motivate.
Post by: Leroy Taylor on January 20, 2012, 05:33:57 PM
Slouch,
Think you missed the whole point because you're hellbent on expressing your affections for Motiv. The fact is the Neo Mark lettering and the cover separate from one another. Not necessarily from any letter in particular...could be any one of them or ( in my case) multiple. As of yet, no one affiliated with them has been able to explain if anything has or what has been done to correct this issue that they are very aware of. It appears the separation ( that results in cracking) takes awhile to occur but is inherent because of the trademark NeoMark process.
I also was fond of my Motiv balls. I have 5 more that I can only assume will likely separate too.
If you are the type that likes to blindly post about how great your favorite company is, but can't listen to anyone else's perspective.. BBE ( bowling ball exchange) is full of your type!
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/20/2012 at 9:15 PM
Post by: bowlingnut07 on January 20, 2012, 05:43:52 PM
Leroy get a life , dont put down bbe just because u dont agree with what this guy says
bbe is fine and apparently u dont spend any time there or you would know the lameness of
the drivel you are spilling on this topic, but i will agree with u that there seems to be a seperation
between the lettering the cover causing the cracks my primal did the same thing. but motiv will
do everything they can to make it right. if u think this isnt the case contact motiv yourself and
and see first hand how the handle business there. its funny to me to see people here talking trash on the bbe
site yet u wont find any threads there bashing ballreviews. i belong to both sites and enjoy both
but i just think down talking bbe is a joke and doesnt make this site look any better by you doing so.
Post by: Leroy Taylor on January 20, 2012, 08:09:28 PM
Nut,
You and Slouch obviously don't read entire posts. Guess your time is too valuable. However if either of you did you might better understand the point of the thread and not make suggestions that have already been covered. That makes you look like a joke or at the very least a nut ( and even you probably know what those are attached to!)
Thank you both for adding nothing to the discussion. Correction, you actually did admit you experienced the separating / cracking issue, you reminded me that my life is uneventful, and you got to ( hopefully) feel like a tougher guy for standing up for others that are like you and slouch at that other site!
Obviously, this is an inherent flaw in Motiv's whole NeoMark concept which they claim produces a higher quality cover...that is the point.
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/20/2012 at 9:24 PM
Post by: bowlingnut07 on January 20, 2012, 08:22:32 PM
OH BLAH BLAH BLAH! really ?? your so intellectually superior to me and im just gonna run right out
and kill myself as ive just realized that you are the center of the universe and my life is now over. thanks for nothing.
Post by: Leroy Taylor on January 20, 2012, 08:30:19 PM
Interesting reply, kinda'.
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/20/2012 at 9:31 PM
Post by: noslouch on January 20, 2012, 08:41:05 PM
Leroy,
I work in an industry that uses over 100 different blends of resins for industrial uses. Most people really don't understand / realize that resins used on the bowling balls act like a rubberband on a softball. A rubberband is made up of essentialy the same resins only slightly different for the basic use of keeping a news paper wrapped. Over time those same resins will tend to shrink. Rubberband on a softball even at a controled temperature environment will show shrinkage even after a year. It may not break. Nor will it go back to its original size. When the chemicals and resins used to pour over a core are not adequately blended to account for shrinkage. Then what you get is a ball that will seperate. Your ball merely shrank. The least amount of resistance to seperate for this to happen was at the M. I have / had a Roto Cell that looked like Crypton ready to implode. that cover shrank, pulled the inner core apart and cracked in 5 pieces.
So, I am quite positive that the engineering that goes into produceing your future pin killer will still happen in future releases. Just not in great numbers. Motiv will replace those when they do. My Dad has the TX1. No cracks.
Post by: StickZ on January 20, 2012, 08:44:39 PM
unless you have called Motiv directly, I have no sympathy for you. I have owned a ton of motiv pieces and i have not experienced anything that you speak of. But i do agree that bowling balls crack, it happens.
Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774
KiDSGoTGaMe
Post by: StickZ on January 20, 2012, 08:45:42 PM
why dont you post a picture leroy so we can all see this "seperation" you speak of.
Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774
KiDSGoTGaMe
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 20, 2012, 09:10:29 PM
STICK ,, look ay posting 4 and 5 in this column!
Get Motivated .. get Motiv
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: StickZ on January 20, 2012, 09:12:43 PM
huh? leroy didnt post any pictures, those are from scott....im asking what leroys look like.
Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774
KiDSGoTGaMe
Post by: Russell on January 20, 2012, 09:32:52 PM
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: RLandreneau on January 20, 2012, 10:35:30 PM
I still love Motiv and continue to use their equipment, but it does provide evidence that maybe the origional balls were flawed.
Post by: TDC57 on January 20, 2012, 10:51:55 PM
I don't get all the consternation about some cracking with Motiv stuff. I've owned only two Storm balls and both cracked on me and Storm has been mentioned many times on this site as having cracking problems. This talk hits certain companies every so often on this site and guys go crazy every time from both sides of the issue. Cracking happens to all companies , get the f**k over it.
Post by: completebowler on January 20, 2012, 11:11:41 PM
I had a similar experience as Russell. Contacted them directly about this seperation issue. They said they need the serial number and they would replace if it were a first run ball. Sent the pic, pics of serial number, and approx purchase date. Never go9t a response. Called them back and my message to the rep I spoke to was never returned.
Not a big deal, guy hadn't used the ball in quite some time so I didn't follow up further but I just wanted to point it out to those bragging up Motiv's customer support. Not trying to bash them just saying...I have seen better.
ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI
Post by: JustinWi on January 20, 2012, 11:50:32 PM
Here's the deal...
The first few runs of TX1 and SX1 have had a few issues. This is a noted and publicly admitted fact. Any balls impacted by this have and will be replaced. There is no inherent flaw to the NeoMark process, it was an issue with the cover on those early runs. As far as cracking issues since, there simply haven't been any. Maybe a couple I don't know about, but they are the exception not the rule. The ratio of number of balls produced to issues seen is the smallest in the industry. They are simply the best quality product out there.
As far as customer service goes, MOTIV strives to be second to none. Please provide me at minimum by PM your Serial number, any pictures of the ball, email address, and shipping address and I'll get your issues resolved.
Post by: RLandreneau on January 21, 2012, 12:39:16 AM
Post by: Sunshine n Lollipops on January 23, 2012, 02:15:18 PM
Question for you, complete. How are the Motiv's selling in your shop? Not seeing them in my leagues. Puzzling since we are in Michigan.
Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.
Post by: AlBundy33 on January 28, 2012, 05:27:35 PM
I know I'm not Complete, but here's my two cents also being from Michigan.....
To be honest, I've maybe seen five people thrown Motiv stuff since I returned to league bowling in May of last year. From what little I've seen, their equipment seems to work better for the guys that softer ball speed, rather than those who throw it hard.
"Pretty women make us buy beer, ugly women make us drink beer"
Post by: Leroy Taylor on January 28, 2012, 07:08:48 PM
unless you have called Motiv directly, I have no sympathy for you. I have owned a ton of motiv pieces and i have not experienced anything that you speak of. But i do agree that bowling balls crack, it happens. "
Spoke with Motiv a couple days after the ball cracked. ( see original post)
Point was to reveal what may very well be an inherent flaw in the NeoMark covers. Do balls crack..absolutely,. I've worked in a pro shop and been to enough bowling seminars / clinics to understand how / why balls crack. However, this issue is quite different .
I've yet to hear what is different about the NeoMark covers ( since the TX1, GT1, SX1..or whichever models supposedly had such issues) that will prevent such issues in the future. That's no disrespect to Justin, he seems to be a likable guy, a damn good and really fluid bowler with solid fundamentals.. Sure he is loyal to Motiv ( as he should be). But to simply state Motiv is the best quality product available isn't much assurance that anything has been done to rectify future issues, especially when no one could / can explain why the issues happened in the 1st place. -
Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: badbeard on January 28, 2012, 09:03:36 PM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 28, 2012, 09:35:38 PM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: JustinWi on January 29, 2012, 02:00:15 PM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 29, 2012, 02:42:19 PM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: jonesybaseball on January 29, 2012, 03:39:08 PM
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Ive noticed alot of people saying this.. but it was with some of the earlier models as well, like the tx1, sx1 and the qz1 models.. so none of the newer balls.. but me personally cannot stand motiv.. everyone in my area loves motiv like its the god of bowling, they die too fast for me, thats why i stick with Storm
Storm & Roto Grip>Ebonite Int>Brunswick
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: Tscolaro1 on February 03, 2012, 07:40:33 AM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 03, 2012, 09:51:16 AM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: Leroy Taylor on February 03, 2012, 01:37:38 PM
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Somehow, this has become a sensitive topic for some here even though it was never intended to be the typical unsubstantiated bashing that occurs on some sites. I was and still am reluctant to say that I've heard a story of recent model ( Raptor) as well. That's one of the reasons I posted this, as I wasn't so sure the earlier models were the only ones with the issue. But I guess time will tell.
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: noslouch on February 03, 2012, 02:19:35 PM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: Leroy Taylor on February 03, 2012, 05:02:48 PM
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You should be able to see I was responding to a post. I wasn't trying to keep the topic going. If the topic is dead to you, fine..that's understandable. However, if I was a betting man, I 'd bet the issues really haven't been completely corrected and that you'll hear more about more models splitting / cracking in the future.
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 03, 2012, 07:34:56 PM
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: six pack on February 03, 2012, 08:10:42 PM
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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Title: Re: Motivs cracking
Post by: Russell on February 04, 2012, 08:46:14 PM
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Spoke with Motiv a couple days after the ball cracked. ( see original post)
Point was to reveal what may very well be an inherent flaw in the NeoMark covers. Do balls crack..absolutely,. I've worked in a pro shop and been to enough bowling seminars / clinics to understand how / why balls crack. However, this issue is quite different .
I've yet to hear what is different about the NeoMark covers ( since the TX1, GT1, SX1..or whichever models supposedly had such issues) that will prevent such issues in the future. That's no disrespect to Justin, he seems to be a likable guy, a damn good and really fluid bowler with solid fundamentals.. Sure he is loyal to Motiv ( as he should be). But to simply state Motiv is the best quality product available isn't much assurance that anything has been done to rectify future issues, especially when no one could / can explain why the issues happened in the 1st place.
Edited by Leroy Taylor on 1/28/2012 at 8:13 PM
Post by: badbeard on January 28, 2012, 09:03:36 PM
i have 13 different cracked bowling balls some from the big b one from hammer one from columbia one from track
and from 900 g they all will crack given enough time all you are doing by repeating this over and over again is taking up space. here is a challage for you call each company ask for tech and see what cracks bowling balls they all will have a different theory. and then tell us your finding
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 28, 2012, 09:35:38 PM
I understand why the problem is continuing .. Motive has a new design on how they put their ID on the ball and apparently the balls reported cracked are in the area of this ID .. the poster is attempting to find out if there is a problem with the processing or it related to something else .. if the poster wants to ask the question why not sit back and wait for an answer .. do you see anything wrong in asking a question?
Post by: JustinWi on January 29, 2012, 02:00:15 PM
The Neomark cracking issue was seen in the first few runs of balls made. As with any new manufacturing process, there is a bit of tweaking. It has taken another company several years to iron out issues with their new plant, and another has issues with balls cracking in the box before you get a chance to drill them. Most don't realize the complexity of the machinery that is used to make bowing balls. There are filters, check valves, pumps, nozzles, flow control regulators and on and on. One clogged filter can change the mixtures enough that things can get messed up. Early on sometimes these issues that need to be carefully watched don't become apparent.
Simple answer, notice the pictures of this failure are all TX1 and SX1? The first balls manufactured.
Do you see pictures or hear stories of any of the other balls doing this currently? No. All I know of other than the aforementioned balls is an SR2 and RX1. That is 2 balls out of the thousands upon thousands manufactured. Go to a distributors warehouse and check out the defective/return area. You will see how few balls are returned with issues.
This isn't simply my opinion, nor am I feeding you a line. The quality is there, you just need to know the indicators to look for.
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 29, 2012, 02:42:19 PM
I think Justins first two sentences answer the question .. that's good enough for me! Thanks Just!
Post by: jonesybaseball on January 29, 2012, 03:39:08 PM
Storm & Roto Grip>Ebonite Int>Brunswick
Post by: Tscolaro1 on February 03, 2012, 07:40:33 AM
Was it ever revealed how these cracks happened because just last December I bought Motiv's Primal TV4 and that is beginning to crack along the neomark design and it is almost completely seperated. Is this particular ball defective or is it a design flaw with the neomark graphics. As frustrating as the crack is, especially within a month and a half, I love the ball and if it does not have the same flaw I want to continue using this brand.
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 03, 2012, 09:51:16 AM
TSCOLARO1 .. perhaps you should try and show a picture of your ball .. accepted response seems to indicate OLDER BALLS .. your problem doesn't fit the bill!!
Post by: Leroy Taylor on February 03, 2012, 01:37:38 PM
Somehow, this has become a sensitive topic for some here even though it was never intended to be the typical unsubstantiated bashing that occurs on some sites. I was and still am reluctant to say that I've heard a story of recent model ( Raptor) as well. That's one of the reasons I posted this, as I wasn't so sure the earlier models were the only ones with the issue. But I guess time will tell.
Post by: noslouch on February 03, 2012, 02:19:35 PM
Leroy,
This topic is pretty muuch dead. Talk about Chris Barnes brand new Omen from 'C' cracking before practice. Couldn't well enough use it on the telecast. That would surely have been an embaresment for 'C'. Having new equipment that could not have lasted past 100 games. Or seeing a huge crack in the ball. Then maybe seperating in half when it hits the pin. WOW. That would have made for a great show. That said. Balls will crack no matter who makes them.
I had a Storm ball ball that cracked in the back seat on the way to tourney. Heard a popping sound, thought it was the squirrel I ran over.
Post by: Leroy Taylor on February 03, 2012, 05:02:48 PM
You should be able to see I was responding to a post. I wasn't trying to keep the topic going. If the topic is dead to you, fine..that's understandable. However, if I was a betting man, I 'd bet the issues really haven't been completely corrected and that you'll hear more about more models splitting / cracking in the future.
Post by: JOE FALCO on February 03, 2012, 07:34:56 PM
Leroy .. you made the original posting .. if YOU consider the subject closed .. then it is .. not anyone else (unless of course the Moderators take exception).
Post by: six pack on February 03, 2012, 08:10:42 PM
post and a rx1 cracking as described http://bowlingballexchange.com/showthread.php?t=44591
The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: Russell on February 04, 2012, 08:46:14 PM
Actually that was an EPX-T1 that he was using to burn the pattern up with....
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"