BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Motiv => Topic started by: Brickguy221 on November 06, 2014, 10:36:00 PM
-
I received my 13# Motiv Octane Monday, and I must say that I am deeply disappointed in it's initial performance. It is drilled 40 x 3 7/8 x 65 with pin under RF. I have slower speed like 13-14 mph and revs on the low side of medium. PAP is 4 x 1/4 up. As for tilt and etc, I have no idea what they are. The ball simply doesn't move well regardless of lane condition it is thrown on. In fact it moves very-very little when it does move and the pin hit/carry is not good.
I previously have purchased the Thrash Frenzy, Primal Scream, and Primal Rage all of which are drilled some what in the area of the Octane and of which all balls were winners from the first throw out of the box, but the Octane isn't even close to being a winner. In fact at the moment I wish I hadn't even bought the ball as it performs that bad.
So, my question is ... has anyone else experienced anything similar with the Octane, and if so, what cover stock adjustments did they make to make the ball work if they were able to make it work?
__________________
-
Jim,
One factor may be that this is a 13 lb, while the others are 12 lbs???
Also the 12s seem to have much higher RG cores except for the Thrash which has the same core as the Octane, but the Octane has a stronger coverstock.
Could the added weight and the lower RG with a stronger cover (of the Octane) mean it is using up too much energy in the midlane?? Not sure; just a stab in the dark.
-
without release specs we cant make an accurate assessment. i ever put a layout like that on something it would hook at my feet and do nothing. also the two primals are asymmetrical arent they?
-
Jim,
One factor may be that this is a 13 lb, while the others are 12 lbs???
Also the 12s seem to have much higher RG cores except for the Thrash which has the same core as the Octane, but the Octane has a stronger coverstock.
Could the added weight and the lower RG with a stronger cover (of the Octane) mean it is using up too much energy in the midlane?? Not sure; just a stab in the dark.
You may have a point Jeff. My Thrash Frenzy which has the same core, RG and Differential as the Octane hooks from any where on the lane and always gets back to the pocket with plenty of energy and great pin carry for a 12# ball. Of coarse I have a bit more speed and revs on the Thrash than the Octane.
-
Another stab in dark could be the types of covers on these balls. From what I have seen, the Octane's cover is an extremely fast reacting cover. The Fusion pearl cover is pretty quick also but not as quick. Combine that with the slower speed and less revs, it could be that once it sees friction, it is simply reacting immediately and leaving you with nothing at the pins.
And cheech, the Primals are also symmetrical. The only asymmetricals Motiv has come out with are the Raptors, Cruels and Jackal.
-
Another stab in dark could be the types of covers on these balls. From what I have seen, the Octane's cover is an extremely fast reacting cover. The Fusion pearl cover is pretty quick also but not as quick. Combine that with the slower speed and less revs, it could be that once it sees friction, it is simply reacting immediately and leaving you with nothing at the pins.
And cheech, the Primals are also symmetrical. The only asymmetricals Motiv has come out with are the Raptors, Cruels and Jackal.
If what you say here could maybe be my problem with this Octane, then I doubt the ball will ever work for me, even with a coverstock change. I had a similar problem wih a Lane 1 ball almost 2 years ago. Tried several coversock changes on it and none worked. The ball was simply DOA at pins with almost no movement getting there regardless of coverstock change. I hope that is not the case with this Octane.
I didn't read your reply until this morning, so based on what you said about this balls coverstock, I hope I didn't make a mistake here, but here is what I did yesterday ... I sanded my Octane 500/1000/2000 doing 15 seconds on each side using Saair Pads with each grit per their instructions.
http://www.motivbowling.com/resources/factory-finish-guide.html
The ball now has a sort of a light shiney Matte look. I will try it tomorrow (Monday) on a used shot with lane conditions only so-so and on Tuesday on a fresh THS and see what happens.
-
Try a coat or 2 of neotac control-it or another polish with a slip agent in it......
-
I would compare your Thrash Frenzy to the Octane if same or close to same layout and same surface and report back on how they react. Same core different covers. Gotta believe the Agility SFX is a slightly stronger cover than Whiplash Pearl. But rhey are close in numbers and oil handling ability. Both listed by Motiv as late hook.
Like to hear how they compare on same lane condition. To me that would be a very good comparison.
-
I would compare your Thrash Frenzy to the Octane if same or close to same layout and same surface and report back on how they react. Same core different covers. Gotta believe the Agility SFX is a slightly stronger cover than Whiplash Pearl. But rhey are close in numbers and oil handling ability. Both listed by Motiv as late hook.
Like to hear how they compare on same lane condition. To me that would be a very good comparison.
I would like to hear this also. Even though the Thrash Frenzy was "late hook" by Motiv, it wouldn't be today by their current standards. The Whiplash cover is not the same as the Agility SFX.
I really hope the ball will work. I just have seen so many slower bowlers struggle immensely with quick reacting covers.
-
[/quote]
I really hope the ball will work. I just have seen so many slower bowlers struggle immensely with quick reacting covers.
[/quote]
Agreed, this is why i recommended control-it or another polish with a slip agent. Should slow it down.....
-
I would compare your Thrash Frenzy to the Octane if same or close to same layout and same surface and report back on how they react. Same core different covers. Gotta believe the Agility SFX is a slightly stronger cover than Whiplash Pearl. But rhey are close in numbers and oil handling ability. Both listed by Motiv as late hook.
Like to hear how they compare on same lane condition. To me that would be a very good comparison.
I would like to hear this also. Even though the Thrash Frenzy was "late hook" by Motiv, it wouldn't be today by their current standards. The Whiplash cover is not the same as the Agility SFX.
I really hope the ball will work. I just have seen so many slower bowlers struggle immensely with quick reacting covers.
Does this mean that I may have gone in the wrong direction in removing the polish and finishing the ball with a 2000 grit sanding? (3000 LSS per Motiv''s chart)
Meanwhile, I will see what happens with what I did to cover stock
-
Does this mean that I may have gone in the wrong direction in removing the polish and finishing the ball with a 2000 grit sanding? (3000 LSS per Motiv''s chart)
Meanwhile, I will see what happens with what I did to cover stock
I don't think so. If you look at any coverstock, you can adjust its characteristics by changing the surface as you have done. Roughing up the surface will slow down the reaction and polishing can make it react a little faster (based on a reference surface grit).
But this doesn't mean all polished surfaces will react quicker than all roughed up surfaces. You have to look at each coverstock on its own.
What you have done should slow down the reaction a little bit. Whether it is the amount you need to make the ball usable is another story.
-
Ok, it appears that the direction I have initially taken of 500/1000/2000 sanding with Saair Pads doing 4 sides with each grit and 15 seconds each side, may be a step in the right direction. The shot wasn't good by any means today, yet I had somewhat decent movement on the back-end and the ball carried decent considering the lane conditions. That was much better than I had on the NIB coverstock as the NIB coverstock refused to move much at all and the hit/carry was bad. ( sort of like a sack of mashed potatos ) The ball seemed to retain decent energy for the back-end today.
I will be bowling in a league tomorrow on hopefully a fresh THS. Will see how the ball reacts there. At the moment, I feel more encouraged than when I got the ball.
-
Jim--Is your Thash Frenzy still in OOB cover and how does it play compared to how you have changed the Octane cover. This would be the interesting comparison IMO.
Motiv lists the Octane OOB at 5000 Grit Laser Scan Polished and the Thrash Frenzy OOB at 5500 Grit Laser Scan Polished.
I think it's more the lane condition that has you in a quandary unless the TF on the same zone on the lane is working great. I'd guess you'd be a few boards inside the TF with the Octane if both in OOB. But that's just how I would see them. I have a TF and loved it til I never could get the cover back to what I liked. Haven't got an Octane but have had 4 Quadfire core balls in the past.
-
Scotts, in reference to my TF it was a success from the first throw out of the box with no cover adjustment needed. It has a ton of games on it and recently needed resurfacing. I followed the Motiv instructions for 5500 LSS Polished and it returned to NIB performance for me.
I bowled 4 games on the used so-so lanes today with the Octane trying different lines and hunting where it worked best. I did have to move in a bit with the Octane today and had some success there. Previously the Octane did nothing when I moved in, out or anywhere else for that matter, so that was a positive. The only problem with my moving in, is I have never been a move left-throw out bowler. Have never had much success doing that, probably because of my low revs hindering it to get back to the pocket when it sniffed the dry.
Anyhow I didn't throw the TF enough today to get a good comparison as I wanted to get keyed in with the Octane as much as possible to see what this coverstock thing was going to do. Will do that another time. The few throws I did throw with the TF, the ball hooked a bit earlier and had a smoother arcing move on the back end whereas the Octane went longer and turned harder and a wee bit shorter (boards covered) when it turned. The Octane did seem to hit a bit harder with what appeared to be a bit more retained energy and it did not come close to that before the coverstock change.
I didn't count them, but it appeared that I "may" have had a few more strikes than I normally get, but that may be due to 13# now vs 12# previously. However with the TF I do have a wee bit more speed and "maybe" revs, but my revs and speed seemed to pick up a bit the 4th game as I got more comfortable with the Octane.
-
I have decided the Octane is going to be a keeper. However, it may and may not end up being an everyday ball for most THS conditions like my TF was. It did good Monday on a so-so used lane shot with heads spotty. Tues in league, it did ok but not great on a fresh THS, but I was having some timing problems Tues though. Today on so-so used lanes with spotty heads, it rolled really-really great today and way better than Monday. I also changed hand positions from what I almost always use and changed the RF grip from a power oval to oval and like the feel way better. Anxious to try it again next Tues in league on a fresh THS as I think it just may put my 12# Thrash Frenzy to bed ... hope so anyhow.
Today with the hand position and finger grip change and also a wee bit earlier lay down position of the ball on the lane, the ball didn't have that "hockey stick" look it previously did and instead had a late and an extremely hard arc on the back end which is what I was searching for. I may try a different sanding grit and a bit of polish later, but not at the moment .... like they say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".