Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 06, 2010, 06:58:43 AM
Sunday January 31st..
### THE DON KAUFFMAN MEMORIAL SINGLES TOURNAMENT ####
10am start time-- cost $50-- lineage $10, prize fund $40
10 game marathon on a modified house pattern.
$800 dollars for first place based on ONLY 40 ENTRIES!!!
High game and brackets also being held.
This will be by far the best tournament of the year to attend locally!!!
Call ahead and reserve your spot today.
Colony Park Lanes North
1900 Pennsylvania Ave. York, PA 17404
(717) 848-6262
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 07, 2010, 05:24:38 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 10, 2010, 03:39:14 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: BowlingChica841 on January 12, 2010, 02:36:07 PM
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Jr. Team USA 2008
Shippensburg University Bowling Alumni '08
Post by: Mike L on January 12, 2010, 04:02:02 PM
Mike Leonard
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 14, 2010, 08:41:03 AM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 14, 2010, 08:42:30 AM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Mike L on January 14, 2010, 09:20:22 AM
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 15, 2010, 10:47:00 AM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 17, 2010, 10:42:59 AM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Beaker300 on January 17, 2010, 02:52:56 PM
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 18, 2010, 02:10:56 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Fishbowl815 on January 18, 2010, 02:16:15 PM
Post by: Dgerhart024 on January 19, 2010, 11:41:24 AM
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David M. Gerhart
Rochester Institute of Technology Men's Bowling Team (Bowling UNSPONSORED Since 2006)
AIM-Dgerhart024
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 20, 2010, 08:36:57 AM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Donald Trump on January 20, 2010, 09:00:37 AM
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 20, 2010, 12:09:42 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Mike L on January 21, 2010, 12:55:10 PM
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 23, 2010, 11:53:03 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Mike L on January 25, 2010, 01:27:54 PM
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: Dgerhart024 on January 25, 2010, 07:23:28 PM
Think I will be making the trip to bowl
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David M. Gerhart
Rochester Institute of Technology Men's Bowling Team (Bowling UNSPONSORED Since 2006)
AIM-Dgerhart024
Post by: walt8398 on January 26, 2010, 06:46:10 AM
I sent you a PM.
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Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 26, 2010, 12:19:59 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Mike L on January 26, 2010, 12:34:13 PM
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: walt8398 on January 26, 2010, 01:01:12 PM
BITE ME!
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Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 27, 2010, 09:36:12 AM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: Dgerhart024 on January 28, 2010, 11:57:23 AM
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David M. Gerhart
Rochester Institute of Technology Men's Bowling Team (Bowling UNSPONSORED Since 2006)
BeginneRs to Pros - Rochester, NY
AIM-Dgerhart024
Post by: rotogrip_rick on January 29, 2010, 09:46:10 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: MichStBwlr2009 on January 30, 2010, 04:59:14 PM
Sorry for the late notice, but thinking of heading up tomorrow, are there still spots available? Also, what's the ratio of the pattern you are putting out? Don't want to make the drive up there if it's going to take +300 just to cash. Thanks.
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Dave Lughermo
Michigan State University Bowling Alumni
Post by: Mr Ed Onkey on February 01, 2010, 07:03:52 AM
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Ed Hombach
above average house bowler
Post by: poffy on February 01, 2010, 07:45:44 AM
J.Poff
Post by: CBass1724 on February 01, 2010, 07:51:08 AM
The only way 4 bowlers per lane works is if you have a strike fest and people give 1 lane courtesy. When it's 2 balls per frame with bowlers still trying to give 2 lane, or even pba courtesy, you have a problem.
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C.J.
Post by: Brunswick_fan_BrandonH on February 01, 2010, 07:54:59 AM
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Brunswick user and supporter. Go Big B!
Post by: Mike L on February 01, 2010, 09:19:35 AM
The shot at first was ok, if you threw it good you could score, however by game 7 the heads were shot. I do believe it should not have been advertised as a modified house shot, because that was the furthest thing from a house shot. +170 +150ish +110ish was top 3 and then me at +24 was 4th. took -78 to cash. Very challenging pattern especially towards the end. Some pairs were better than others but thats what happens with all those bowlers.
I do think he will lose some entries next time due to the shot. I know of a handful of guys that came thinking they could go +200 on a modified house pattern, turns out no one was +200.
To me do not say what the shot is at all and you wouldn't have that problem. All in all a decent tournament, just the pace took forever with all those bowlers.
just my .02
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: Mr Straight Ball on February 01, 2010, 12:00:27 PM
As a fellow TD I want to first commend Rick for fielding 82 players that is some accomplishment these days considering 30-40 is the norm. As someone who bowls tournaments, 7 to a pair is a bit much, regardless of the scoring pace. But Rick did what he had to do, allowed some lanes for open play so that Colony could rake in $3-4 a game versus the $1 he charged each bowler per game. Pretty sure had he turned people away, someone would have said why is he turning entries away...or...those turned away would have been mad they drove there and could play.
Mike hit it on the head, don't announce the pattern and then no one comes in with high hopes.
--------------------
Bakes...Why is the 9-pin standing?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop
Post by: poffy on February 01, 2010, 12:16:51 PM
J.Poff
Post by: Fishbowl815 on February 01, 2010, 12:26:45 PM
Post by: poffy on February 01, 2010, 12:33:37 PM
Post by: Mike L on February 01, 2010, 01:05:27 PM
MODIFIED HOUSE SHOT 10 GAMES FOR ONLY $50 WITH $800 ON TOP
However he probably will lose alot of guys because of the pattern. I for one would much rather bowl on that pattern, but I want 80 guys to bowl, not 30. Personally I bowl for the side action, the prize fund is a bonus in most cases, so the more bowlers the more brackets they will have. I was in 100 total yesterday, whens the last time anything in the balt/northern va had 100? The reason why is because alot of guys thought it would be a fairly easy shot and thats why the turnout was so good. Every month at Hagerstown, theres 100 single and 30 doubles brackets and the tournament cost $25 a bowler, but they get 90 bowlers EVERY month. Make it easy and cheap and you will get bowlers, its a fact!
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: Donald Trump on February 01, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
Said one thing to get entries and did another after the entries showed up?
That's pretty low.
Post by: SKIDSNAP on February 01, 2010, 02:31:14 PM
You are the low one for making this assertion.
Who made you the judge any way?
Were you even there???
Either bowl in these tournaments that you keep on trashing or shut up and go away.
Post by: Donald Trump on February 01, 2010, 02:39:59 PM
quote:
No he didn't lie. He said it was a modified house shot.
You are the low one for making this assertion.
Who made you the judge any way?
Were you even there???
Either bowl in these tournaments that you keep on trashing or shut up and go away.
Sorry but the east coast has too many good bowlers to ever have a -74 cash cut on any modified house condition and to only have 7 bowlers plus out of 82??
Sorry but not buying it.
Nice try but the TD really should fess up!
Post by: Mike L on February 01, 2010, 02:57:47 PM
Your are an idiot. A modified house shot could be anything. Yes did most people think it would be easier of course, but something modified could be almost anything. Did you bowl? Ive seen many threats from you on here about people, who are you? what do you bowl? put up or shut up!
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: Mr Ed Onkey on February 01, 2010, 03:55:48 PM
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Ed Hombach
above average house bowler
Post by: Donald Trump on February 01, 2010, 07:52:04 PM
False advertising is right
Post by: Donald Trump on February 01, 2010, 07:54:40 PM
There was no way this was a 35 foot pattern. No chance!
Post by: SKIDSNAP on February 01, 2010, 08:17:51 PM
Please stay in NY!!!!!
We do not want Donald no profile Chumps on here complaining about tournament they do not have the guts to attend.
35ft and 50 mls which is what he posted should play tough.
You are a no talent no brain no profile idiot..... PLease stay home.
Post by: Donald Trump on February 01, 2010, 08:24:12 PM
Sorry it just couldn't be 35 feet for that to happen!
He lied!
Post by: rotogrip_rick on February 01, 2010, 09:15:15 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: rotogrip_rick on February 01, 2010, 09:26:38 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: MichStBwlr2009 on February 01, 2010, 10:42:58 PM
On top of that, people have the nerve to come on here and chastise the tournament director saying he lied about the pattern. He spent tons of time and effort putting this great tournament together, only charged us $1/game lineage (don't even get me started on Bowl America's $3.50/game lineage fee for tournaments), and spread the word to get 80+ entries, and all anyone can complain about is the pattern being too hard, cause it was supposed to be a "modified house shot", which could play like literally anything, depending on how "modified" it was. Would you have rather it had been The Red Eye where it took a 240 average to make any money? I would rather go to Atlantic City and put $80 on red than bowl that BS.
Overall, I think lower entry fees might attract more bowlers, even if tougher conditions prevail. As Mike L said, pots/brackets are where most of the money is, so let those who want to spend a few hundred put it into the side action, and the entry fee is a sort of bonus at the end if you bowled well. I think the $50 entry fee was good, or even go lower to attract those who are just looking for experience in tournaments, not necessarily to make money bowling them.
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Dave Lughermo
Michigan State University Bowling Alumni
Post by: Mich State bowler as well on February 02, 2010, 05:07:46 AM
Can someone help this guy find his way out of the paper bag?
Post by: MichStBwlr2009 on February 02, 2010, 06:02:24 AM
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Dave Lughermo
Michigan State University Bowling Alumni
Edited on 2/2/2010 7:07 AM
Edited on 2/2/2010 7:10 AM
Post by: Krakken on February 02, 2010, 10:34:22 AM
don't listen to this idiot. You are a good bowler and nothing wrong with the way you approach the game.
BTW you aren't consistently the last pair done. That belongs to another team in our league...lol
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
Post by: Mich State bowler as well on February 02, 2010, 10:39:46 AM
quote:
I try and stand up for the tournament director and the sport of bowling itself and this is what I get, last time I post on here...this site is full of trolls. You''re right "Mich St Bowler as well", I''m horrible and I never bowl well. And I don''t need to post my bowling resume cause I''''m sure you will find something else wrong with it, plus I have a real job. Sure, my head is in the clouds at times, but I''''m not the only one. My temper is something I was born with, and it sucks. You tell me how easy it is to control it when you have walked a day in my shoes. Everyone says I have an ego at first, have you tried having a legitimate conversation with me? I''m quiet off the lanes and have a temper on the lanes, not a good combination for gaining rapport from people when you first start bowling with them. Maybe I''ll just stop caring as much anymore, I''m sure that will help. Yes, I am a slow bowler, you are right about that, and sorry if I have offended you with my slow pace, I will try and speed things up. Obviously you know of me, at least somewhat. I''m sure you will turn my words against me again, good luck.
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Dave Lughermo
Michigan State University Bowling Alumni
Edited on 2/2/2010 7:07 AM
Edited on 2/2/2010 7:10 AM
The first step to recovery is to admit your faults. Good job slow poke.
Post by: PWOICantHearU on February 02, 2010, 10:47:53 AM
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Andrew Hurst
Hopkinsville or Bust
Post by: tommygn on February 02, 2010, 11:35:03 AM
The question that should be asked, is how as a tournament bowler, do "I" help a TD not let this happen again?
1) Pre register when TD is taking pre-registration.
2) Bowl when it is your turn to bowl! Don''t be off in the bar, or talking to your buddies ten lanes away, be ready to bowl when it is your turn!
3) Bowl more tourneys, so that TD''s can raise their expectations on how many bowlers will show up.
4) Bowl when it is your turn, oh thats right, I already said this one. This is the great thing about PBA regionals, bowlers, for the most part, are there to bowl, and not socialize, or are not off checking their brackets when they are up.
I just think it is a bit sad, that here you have a "successful" turn out for a tournament, WHAT BOWLERS KEEP ASKING FOR, and it seems that Rick is getting land blasted more than being praised, when it is us as tournament bowlers, that actually makes or breaks a good tournament.
Thanks Rick for running a tournament. If scheduling permits, I will see you at the next one.
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Tommy Gollick
Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff
Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA
stormbowling.com
Edited on 2/2/2010 12:37 PM
Post by: Mike L on February 02, 2010, 12:01:21 PM
First off yes thank you rick for a good tournament, shot was fair and demanding. Yes the pace was slow but oh well not much you could do about that. However if the PBA guys and the guys that wanted 2 lanes would have just gave 1 lane it would have went alot faster. I for one bowled next to Cavey and his crew and I told them right from the get go im only giving and taking one lane and if they wanted 2 theyd have to wait which they did and that made us wait 10-15 mins every game and that was fine by us, but it would have been alot quicker with 1 lane. What do you guys think about anyway????
Secondly,
Sorry Tommy but when I spend anywhere from $500-$1000 before throwing a ball, yeah id like to take a minute or 2 to see how many brackets I made it by. Now don't get me wrong I do pay attention to when im bowling but yeah I look at them. Thats whats wrong with regionals and why guys like myself don't bowl, no side action at all.
Third,
Yes the pattern was described as a modified house pattern, but once again that could be absolutely anything, let your ball decide on how to play them not the TD telling you what the pattern is.
Stop all the whining, shoe up and bowl!
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: tommygn on February 02, 2010, 12:21:28 PM
You are not what I am talking about. You have an awareness of when it is your turn. I am talking about the guys who get into 2 brackets, and decide to go and try and find their bracket, when they are the next bowler up, and then go try to see what their opponent is doing. And besides, when you get in a ton of brackets, it doesn't take that long to figure out where you are, since your in all of them, and probably have a good idea of what you shot compared to the rest of the field.
I agree with the two lane courteous, I didn't do it, and for that I know a couple of guys around me backed off, but TD said no two lane, so I didn't give it, unless a bowler had a string going. But in all fairness, when the PBA every other pair of lanes rule is done correctly, it really is the fastest pace you can bowl.
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Tommy Gollick
Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff
Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA
stormbowling.com
Post by: BeansProShop on February 02, 2010, 12:26:25 PM
quote:
I love how ballreviews has turned into a forum for trolls to hide and talk trash behind fake profiles.
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Andrew Hurst
Hopkinsville or Bust
I certainly know that to be true!!!
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Pro Shop Owner/Operator
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=bowling_with_leah Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: BeansProShop on February 02, 2010, 12:28:36 PM
quote:
So let me get this straight, the TD lied as to what the lane condition would be?
Said one thing to get entries and did another after the entries showed up?
That's pretty low.
What do you care..? You ain't never gonna show up!! If you did, nobody would know you anyway!!
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Pro Shop Owner/Operator
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=bowling_with_leah Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: BeansProShop on February 02, 2010, 12:30:21 PM
quote:
Mike L,
You are not what I am talking about. You have an awareness of when it is your turn. I am talking about the guys who get into 2 brackets, and decide to go and try and find their bracket, when they are the next bowler up, and then go try to see what their opponent is doing. And besides, when you get in a ton of brackets, it doesn't take that long to figure out where you are, since your in all of them, and probably have a good idea of what you shot compared to the rest of the field.
I agree with the two lane courteous, I didn't do it, and for that I know a couple of guys around me backed off, but TD said no two lane, so I didn't give it, unless a bowler had a string going. But in all fairness, when the PBA every other pair of lanes rule is done correctly, it really is the fastest pace you can bowl.
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Tommy Gollick
Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff
Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA
stormbowling.com
Fastest PACE hands down.... You never need a traffic cop to determine who is gonna bowl while 6 guys look back and forth at each other!!
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Pro Shop Owner/Operator
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=bowling_with_leah Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: Mike L on February 02, 2010, 01:29:05 PM
Tommy,
I understand what and who you are talking about. Yes of course most of the time I know if im still in a bunch or not, but I do look but yes I am aware of when I am up.
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"Typical House Bowler"
Post by: Current Exempt on February 02, 2010, 02:43:02 PM
Post by: Fishbowl815 on February 02, 2010, 02:44:35 PM
quote:
What in the world are you time keepers thinking about on the approach for anything longer than 3 seconds?
There being the ball.....
Post by: MichStBwlr2009 on February 02, 2010, 04:36:38 PM
"PWOICantHearYou" and "tommygn", I was on your pair/to the left of you Sunday, I hope I didn't slow you guys down. Unfortunately, it was a long day for all of us, regardless.
Does anyone know who "Donald Trump" or now "MSU Bwlr as well" is anyways? I am guessing they are the same person who has nothing better to do with their time.
BTW, i hate to brag and I'm only doing it to prove a point, but I got 5th on Sunday with +19, and have cashed in my last 5 tournaments. Obviously I have bowled myself out of a lot of paper bags as of late.
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Dave Lughermo
Michigan State University Bowling Alumni
Post by: poffy on February 03, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
J.Poff
Post by: poffy on February 03, 2010, 10:58:16 AM
J.Poff
Post by: Mr Ed Onkey on February 03, 2010, 11:03:34 AM
quote:
Another thing to PWOICantHearU....i hate you
J.Poff
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Ed Hombach
above average house bowler
Post by: Donald Trump on February 03, 2010, 11:24:15 AM
I am all for tough conditions. I am not bashing the condition, I am bashing the information given on the lane condition. The TD was better off not saying a word because from what I hear the lanes did not play like a normal 35 foot flat pattern and the scores obviously showed this.
Don
Post by: Mr Straight Ball on February 03, 2010, 12:21:29 PM
USBC is trying to roll out the Red, White & Blue program which are nothing but modified house patterns. Okay, maybe not the "house shot" you play on at your home center(s) but it is a house pattern.
Rick provided what he said as it was posted right here January 27 at 10:36am on Ball Reviews. Thursday at league, 72.5 miles from Colony, I was talking to a tournament bowler about the pattern. We both said the scoring pace was not going to be high. There is no real need to empower people with knowledge that the average bowler cannot decipher. We all want to do better without any real work and nothing works like that. In case no one has noticed, folks whine when they easy and whine when they are tough. We are an uphappy bunch when things don't go in our favor.
--------------------
Bakes...Why is the 9-pin standing?
40 Boards & A Ball - www.40boards.com
Is your Ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Stepp's Glen Burnie Pro Shop
Post by: Donald Trump on February 03, 2010, 01:52:54 PM
Some of us just bowl on the easy and tough stuff and accept it. I wish you would as well.
I prefer the lanes tough and have bowled on many tough conditions. Never once have I bowled on 35 foot pattern with a -74 score to cash. The east has too many high caliber bowlers to have scores this bad on a 35 foot flat pattern.
I'm not buying what Rick is selling.
Hopefully her learns from this and doesn't say what the pattern is next time. that way when a -74 is 16th place everyone can hop on here and talk about 35 foot patterns in the middle of the lane and 47 foot patterns on the gutter.
Post by: rotogrip_rick on February 03, 2010, 03:01:47 PM
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Rick Mitchell
Roto-Grip Staff Member
Post by: PWOICantHearU on February 03, 2010, 03:30:48 PM
Poffy, I'm going to cry myself to sleep tonight after that remark. I thought you were better than that
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Andrew Hurst
Hopkinsville or Bust
Post by: walt8398 on February 03, 2010, 06:04:07 PM
Trump - I have been around this game a long time and I have bowled on and been successful on tough and easy patterns. I don''t want to bowl tournaments on THSs anymore. As a tournament director, I have made the decision to not put those out at any of my tournaments because they don''t make you go to your B, C or D game. I have said it once before and I will say it again. THE PBA SHOULD BURN IN HELL FOR STARTING THE STUPID TREND OF ANNOUNCING PATTERNS BEFOREHAND.
Just use your 10 minutes of practice and figure them out.
Lastly, being a TD is truly a THANKLESS JOB. I am sure Rick did not set out to start any drama when he scheduled this tournament. All you can do is put the patterns down and hope it plays like you expect. I hope he does not get discouraged from running them because we need them.
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Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com
Edited on 2/3/2010 7:05 PM
Post by: Donald Trump on February 03, 2010, 07:47:50 PM
I agree with not saying what the pattern is.
In your opinion, if you put a 35 foot flat pattern down with the caliber of bowlers your tournaments draw, do you think -74 would be the cash cut in a tournament that pays 1 in 5?
Would 8th place be around -74 on 40 entries?
Would 10th place be around -74 on 50 entries?
And please don't respond saying "depends on the surface" that would be taking the easy way out and avoiding the question.
Post by: MichStBwlr2009 on February 03, 2010, 08:15:59 PM
You are correct, the pattern at Colony Park did not play like a usual 35ft pattern does. Usually, outside of 5 is where to play and you basically have 5 to the gutter to strike from if your angles are correct and you have the right ball in your hands. But, there was added volume and the pattern was not as crowned as most 35ft. patterns, such as PBA Cheetah or Kegel Boardwalk. Believe me, it hooked, but just not off the gutter where most people are used to playing them when they are 35ft. When people tried to move in, there was not much hold either, until the lanes carried down. This could have contributed to the low scoring pace. On the fresh, if you moved in and got your ball to 5-8 at the break point and were able to control your downlane reaction, I believe that was your best bet. After that, the move was left the rest of the day. Overall, yes the pattern was fairly flat, and only a few people were able to play straight up the gutter, but you had to be going right to left (for right handers) or else your ball would never read the lane. Plus, your touch had to be spot on, if you hit it at all the ball was ducking left in a hurry.
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Dave Lughermo
Michigan State University Bowling Alumni
Post by: Hornetajc on February 03, 2010, 09:27:01 PM
The only exception to this is when you play it along the gutter very early. I'm pretty sure this 35 ft shot that Rick put out, probably put oil to the gutter.
BTW, those of you that remember the Memorial Day weekend tournament that Colony used to have... that pattern was short (32-35 ft), but you rarely saw anyone score near the gutter. Same reason as what I stated above.
Finally, are some of you really complaining about decent tournaments in the area again? Really? The shot will NEVER be perfect for everyone, and obviously it wasn't impossible to score with at least 3 people averaging over 210.
Post by: walt8398 on February 04, 2010, 06:58:53 AM
Surface PLAYS a major role in how the pattern will play. For example, Kegel's Rt. 66 pattern (45') will play very different on an HPL surface vs. Brunswick Pro AnviLane. HPLs are well known as a high friction surface. That being said, I could see the 35' pattern that Rick put down on Sunday playing more like 32'.
I had a great conversation with Steve Cross (former PBA lanesman for 10 years who now works for Kegel) the other day about lane surfaces. He stated that the reason that some centers have hang towards the outsides is because of how they are installed. AMF bolts the "pine area" down on the 1 board, whereas Brunswick and a few other synthetic lane manufacturers bolt their lane beds down on the 2 board creating that infamous "hang spot" on all of their surfaces regardless of the pattern. As of early 2009, they were informed of this finding and the results have been much better with all of the recent installations with regards to the "hang spot" in the pine area.
Colony's install may have their's bolted down on the 2 board...
Not sure what the scores would be like if I put down a 35' pattern. With 7 on a pair and that HPL surface, I could see those scores being that low.
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Tony Walton
VMSBT Tournament Director
http://www.vmsbt.com
Post by: Krakken on February 04, 2010, 10:08:56 AM
quote:
Tony,
I agree with not saying what the pattern is.
In your opinion, if you put a 35 foot flat pattern down with the caliber of bowlers your tournaments draw, do you think -74 would be the cash cut in a tournament that pays 1 in 5?
Would 8th place be around -74 on 40 entries?
Would 10th place be around -74 on 50 entries?
And please don't respond saying "depends on the surface" that would be taking the easy way out and avoiding the question.
Part of the problem here is you are so arrogant that you think you can say from 3 states away, that -74 is too low of a score for a 35 foot condition. Do you know so much about bowling, oil distribution, and lane play that you can honestly say there is no way that -74 is pssible for low to cash on ANY 35 foot pattern?
No. No one knows that much.
Also lets look at what modified means. It means they took an exisiting pattern and altered it. That would mean that it is likely that there is no other pattern that plays exactly like that. So chances are in all of your vast bowling experience you have never played on this particular pattern
That alone would lead to the ability and probability that it is possible.
You weren't there bowling on it, all of the people that were there one here say it was legit. so stop assuming and slandering the tournament director.
Pay attention to NY. If you want to come here and bowl, you have been invited. Check out 40boards.com and vmsbt.com Show up, shoe up and see what happens.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
Post by: Donald Trump on February 04, 2010, 10:35:05 AM
And no, not everyone thinks it was a legit condition based on what the TD said it was going to be.
A legit condition? Yes
A condition that the TD posted a month prior? No
He knew a day or two before that he was not going to use the "modified 35ft house shot" and even told a few people and had the lanes conditioned with the pattern he knew he was going to use for Sunday's tournament the night before for bowlers to practice on.
He listened to too many people who put the fear in him as to what high scores might do to future entries.
I'm still not buying what Rick is selling. Sorry
Post by: Fishbowl815 on February 04, 2010, 10:54:52 AM
Post by: Krakken on February 04, 2010, 10:59:56 AM
quote:
I'll bowl you any time Krakken. Who are you? Stop hiding behind a screen name.
And no, not everyone thinks it was a legit condition based on what the TD said it was going to be.
A legit condition? Yes
A condition that the TD posted a month prior? No
He knew a day or two before that he was not going to use the "modified 35ft house shot" and even told a few people and had the lanes conditioned with the pattern he knew he was going to use for Sunday's tournament the night before for bowlers to practice on.
He listened to too many people who put the fear in him as to what high scores might do to future entries.
I'm still not buying what Rick is selling. Sorry
Hiding behind a screen name? I take it you are the real Donald Trump then? I will bowl anyone anytime no biggie. You may beat me, I may beat you. That is not what this is about. Though it seems I have hit a nerve.
You are flat out calling the TD a liar (while hiding behind a screen name). I have yet to see anyone that bowled in the tournament claim that it wasn't a 35 ft pattern, and I have talked to quite a few but you, who wasn't even in the state at the time of the tourney, fell it is right to bash the man on here.
Your claims would be taken better if you had bowled in the tournament. Rick runs good tournaments from what I have been told ( haven't had the pleasure yet) things go wrong all the time, but I would take his word over your assumptions any day.
Stop slandering him, especially about something that you weren't a part of.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
Post by: Donald Trump on February 04, 2010, 11:07:55 AM
I have bowled several of Rick's tournaments and he does run a good tournament. No one is disputing that. Rick's ability to run a quality is not in question here.
What is in question is the 35ft "modified house shot"
Post by: Krakken on February 04, 2010, 11:22:57 AM
quote:
Friends who bowled told me exactly how the gutter played and to call that 35ft is flat out untrue.
I have bowled several of Rick's tournaments and he does run a good tournament. No one is disputing that. Rick's ability to run a quality is not in question here.
What is in question is the 35ft "modified house shot"
"MODIFIED" being the key word. How was it modified? Did he go out there with a spray bottle and soak the ouside 5 boards? That is a "modified" 35 ft pattern.
Again you are still assuming a great deal based on how your friends said it played.
It still isn't right that you are on here calling the man a liar. He even offered to send you the pattern, though to be fair, surface has everything to do with it.
The right thing to do would be to either come down here and play on it in that house, or stop slandering him, and you are slandering him. And if you do, make sure you take in to account what equipment you would bring for a 35 ft modified house shot.
it just seems strange that your "frineds" that bowled in it, haven't chimed in, but you have from NY?
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
Post by: Mr Straight Ball on February 04, 2010, 12:03:57 PM
I look forward to seeing you at Opposites Attract in June, shutting everyone up! We had plenty of entries from the NY & NJ area so I am sure you can catch a ride. Save your dollars and make them stack, because we do not accept Hasboro's Monopoly money.
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Post by: CBass1724 on February 04, 2010, 02:40:34 PM
I do have a question for Rick. You said you "wanted the pattern to produce good scores, but not a have a complete blow up of scores." That is cool and everything, but I am just wondering, have you used this pattern in other tournaments? You seemed confident the scoring would be decent with this pattern but it wasn't even close. The scoring was about as low as you could possibly get for 80 guys in the east.
Just wondering because I think you've probably scared away a bunch of future entries by putting that pattern out.
And honestly I've gotten to the point with bowling these days that if I'm going to bowl a tournament, it's going to be on a house shot. I have nothing to prove to anybody and I know my lack of skill. I don't need it magnified by 100 times on a sport shot or "35 foot flat pattern" to show how bad I am. I know my place. Bowling is entertainment these days for me along with a few of my friends. If we are going to bowl, it will probably be on something relatively easy with a decent entry fee....like Hagerstown and Chambersburg. I know my best is probably one of the last few cash spots regardless of condition, but I feel more comfortable on a house pattern so that is what I will bowl on.
I know I'm not the only one who feels this way but I'm probably the only one who will say it.
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C.J. Batten