BallReviews
General Category => PBA => Topic started by: Mbosco on April 08, 2013, 04:06:19 AM
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Kelly Kulick is a great bowler, of course. She's good enough to be an exempt PBA member, and she's good enough to have made a telecast, which was in fact a major. As an icon in the bowling world, she serves to remind that women's bowling is still alive, and that occassionally some of those bowlers can compete on the PBA tour. In fact, Kelly is considered by many to be one of the Great Bowlers of Our Time (tm). Bear this in mind when I say the following:
Kelly Kulick is extremely overrated.
Now, to explain why I bother posting this.
At times, it seems every flippin' person on the entire doggone planet has lost their sense of perspective when it comes to Kelly. When I talk bowling with someone (especially casual bowling fans), something along the lines of "Kelly Kulick is the greatest!" always seems to come up (and don't get me started on YouTube!). All the time. It boggles my mind. When I ask why she is so great, the response is always 1) SHE WON THE ToC AND SHE'S A WOMAN PROVING WOMEN AND MEN ARE EQUAL!!!!! (disregarding that if you honestly believed we were completely equal, this would be much less of a big deal to you), or 2) Kelly is the most dominant female bowler in the last several years. Granted, she's been curb-stomping everyone in the women's majors, and I have no problem considering her the greatest FEMALE bowler. But that's just it. Using a qualification won against a field completely (with one or two exceptions) comprised of bowlers who either can't or won't shoe up on the PBA tour means absolutely squat when comparing against other PBA champions. As for the Tournament of Champions...her victory at the ToC a few years ago did not end the debate concerning the athletic equality of men and women. Neither did it establish an everlasting dynasty of dominance over the PBA tour. It was a single tv appearance. Her only singles PBA tv appearance.
Anybody remember who John Nolen is? That's what I thought. But, for some reason, Kelly is elevated above and beyond what she has achieved.
Kelly is far from the greatest. If she were great, as an exempt touring PBA player she would be making multiple shows a season. Heck, even one show a season, assuming a poor WSOB showing. And most importantly, if she were great she would be a threat for a title each week.
Kelly Kulick achieved something great. Let's call a spade a spade and just leave it at that. She's pro, for sure, but come on.
A dose of reality for the road: Wayne Garber has more singles telecast appearances on the PBA tour than Kelly Kulick. Since Kelly's ToC victory, they both only have one (you read that right, ONE) match play appearance, according to PBA.com.
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I'd still take Kelly over some of the other guys who made the PBA teams - guys like Archer, Buss, Larsen, and a few others.
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Kelly is a great bowler. Obviously by her career she has nothing to prove. Fan/general population ignorance on a subject means nothing. If you can learn not to pay attention to what a lot of people preceive to be true and focus on facts you will have a lower chance of being found dead at your keyboard from an aneurysm.
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Why does this bother you so much?
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Why does this bother you so much?
Agreed. I've known Kelly personally for quite a while, and I have to agree with the others; she has nothing else to prove, except to herself. Her record in college, the LPBT, PWBA, and PBA speak for themselves. Call me a newbie here, but I don't know of anyone else here on this board who can match the credits she has on their resume.
And yes, I definitely remember "Smooth rollin', John Nolen'.
OP, do you remember Rich Abboud? Tom Kelley? Brad Snell? Tim Criss? Lil Johnson? Rachel Perez? I certainly do; and again, their accomplishments speak for themselves, and I only wish I could have the opportunity to compete at the level these guys and gals are at.
Personal confession here. My first year in college, I tried out for and made our collegiate team (Nebraska-Omaha). The first team I bowled against at my first tournament was our sister college, Nebraska-Lincoln. I proceeded to have my butt handed to me by a 298 and a 300 shot on me by two women, both of which went on to become pro bowlers: One named Kim Straub, the other Brenda Norman (now Brenda Mack).
My next tournament, though I shot well each time out for the day, I was again handed my butt by another woman; her last name is Johnson.
My point: She, and women in general definitely aren't overrated. I would consider them to be the most consistent of bowlers, having much more of a compact and balanced game than I've seen of the men. I compare the forms of Johnson, Kulick, Terrell-Kearney, Asbaty, O'Keefe, and may others, to those of Shafer, Allen (Ritchie/Dick and Patrick), O'Neill, and a few others and wonder how the hell they stay balanced.
I'd actually go the other way; I'd say she's more underrated than anything.
BL.
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It's just like Danica Patrick. She got a top 5 at Daytona a track where you hold it to the floor and ride around and everybody says "oh she can hang with the big boys" yet any one with her performances since in that great of equipment would be sitting home.
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This is from the PBA Website of Kelly. I'm guessing there are numerous achievements that have been left out. Oh why yes she is VERY overrated (smh)
Personal: Nickname is “Double K†or “K-squaredâ€â€¦Favorite movie is “A League of Their Ownâ€â€¦Ultimate dinner guest is Elvis Presley…Works part-time in father’s auto body shop in Elizabeth, N.J…Hobbies include music, cooking and drawing…Graduated from Morehead University with degree in physical and health education…Eight-time member of Team USA and two-time member of Junior Team USA…Won two golds (singles, all-events) and two silver medals (doubles, Masters) in 2000 World Youth Championships…Won gold (doubles) and two silver medals (team, Masters) in 1998 World Youth Championships…Won gold medal in 2000 World Tenpin Team Cup…Won gold medal (team) in 1999 Pan American Games…Won gold (singles) and two bronze (team, trios) in 1999 WTBA World Championships…2000 U.S. Amateur Champion...2001 PWBA Rookie of the Year…Selected as Bowlers Journal International Person of the Year for 2006...Got back on winning track in 2011 with Women's Singapore Open title...Won gold in team and bronze in doubles and trios in 2011 WTBA World Womens Championships...Was featured in the 2011 ESPN the Magazine Body issue and has appeared in Bridgestone Tire commercials.
2011-12 season: Had best finish of seventh in Chameleon Open which marked best finish since winning Tournament of Champions in 2010...Ranked 46th in average (214.45) and 48th in earnings ($10,855).
Career: Made sports history by winning the 2010 PBA Tournament of Champions to become the first woman to win a PBA Tour event. Defeated Chris Barnes in the championship match, 265-195…Also won PBA Women’s Series Shark Championship…Finished seventh in Don and Paula Carter Mixed Doubles Championship with partner Eugene McCune…Tied for third in Women’s Scorpion Championship, tied for fifth in Women’s Viper, Chameleon and Earl Anthony Memorial Championships… Became the first woman to earn a Tour exemption (2006-07 season) after finishing sixth in 2006 PBA Tour Trials (rolled a 300 on the final day)…Best finish in 2006-07 was 22nd (twice)…Her 2010 TOC win resulted in widespread national media attention including coverage in Sports Illustrated, major daily newspapers, websites and television networks…Also received an invitation to attend a White House function hosted by President and Mrs. Obama celebrating pioneering achievements by women…Three-time U.S. Women's Open winner (2003, 2007 and 2012)…Won PBA Senior Ladies and Legends title in 2008…Became second woman to win a PBA Regional title (Rome, N.Y., 2006) and second to win two PBA Regional titles (Lakewood, Wash., 2010)…Became first woman ever to win USBC Queens and U.S. Women’s Open back-to-back in 2010, and only woman in bowling history to win four consecutive major titles (PBA Women’s World Championship, PBA TOC, USBC Queens, Women’s U.S. Open)…Owns eight PWBA and PBA Women’s Series titles, of which six are majors.
PBA Women’s Series Standard Titles: 2009 Shark Championship.
PBA Women’s Major Titles: 2009 PBA Women’s World Championship.
PBA Tour Career Majors: 2009-10 – Tournament of Champions, Las Vegas.
Other honors: 2010 World Bowling Writers Woman Bowler of the Year
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At least the title of his thread is right. Not much else though.
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Well I understand what he's saying. If she was a man we would have already forgotten his name by now. However, it is what it is and we are all stuck with the hand we are dealt. We are past the days of women and minorities being disadvantaged. It's the white male who has to work hardest just to be even noticed these days.
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We are past the days of women and minorities being disadvantaged. It's the white male who has to work hardest just to be even noticed these days.
You are an idiot.
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Oh am I? If I fill out an application with the US Army Corp of Engineers (or any other government position) and I equally qualified to a minority applicant or female applicant they are automatically bumped ahead of me. That is a FACT. Jobs are awarded based on a computer points system. Additional points are added to minority and female applicants. How is that fair? Same goes for contractors. If I bid the same as a minority contractor 9 times out of 10 a big corporation is going with the minority just because they are scared someone will yell discrimination.
I'm not complaining. It is what it is.
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Arone24, buffoonery at the highest level.
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I'm just saying what everyone else in this country is scared to say.
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Yes there are female and minority hiring benefits for businesses, especially the Government. That is very common knowledge. Ask anyone who owns a business or who works for the Government.
Also some for hiring military veterans as well.
You also get breaks if your business is owned by a female or minority.
The world isn't fair.
Neither is equality.
Your not equal when you have to give incentive to be considered equal. Just like bowling life has handicap.
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Well said kid lost. I was just saying that I was tired of people using that as a crutch. Those days are over.
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But to flip it on you when that same minority goes for an interview and clearly is more qualified than you, how is it that you still get the job????? That happens more times than you getting bumped.
Oh am I? If I fill out an application with the US Army Corp of Engineers (or any other government position) and I equally qualified to a minority applicant or female applicant they are automatically bumped ahead of me. That is a FACT. Jobs are awarded based on a computer points system. Additional points are added to minority and female applicants. How is that fair? Same goes for contractors. If I bid the same as a minority contractor 9 times out of 10 a big corporation is going with the minority just because they are scared someone will yell discrimination.
I'm not complaining. It is what it is.
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If he or she is more qualified then I would not even get an interview.
My point is: It works both ways. Everyone is discriminated in some way shape or form, white, black, Hispanic, heterosexual, gay, single, married, male, female, kids, or no kids, etc. Hell look at our tax system. A responsible single adult is penalized for being smart and not having 10 kids. Life isn't fair. Shut up and deal with it like the everyone else.
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Oh but you would, and that is why a lot of this has been put in place. Now I will give you that most of it is over, but there is still a lot that is not.
See, your point just basically shoots you in the foot. The problem that is happening now is that the people that claim to be "discriminated" against were the ones that were doing it, and they don't like that it is now happening to them one bit.
Heck why do you think politics is set up the way it is. those in power realized this a long time ago, so they set up the system so that it would be VERY hard to get them out of power.
If he or she is more qualified then I would not even get an interview.
My point is: It works both ways. Everyone is discriminated in some way shape or form, white, black, Hispanic, heterosexual, gay, single, married, male, female, kids, or no kids, etc. Hell look at our tax system. A responsible single adult is penalized for being smart and not having 10 kids. Life isn't fair. Shut up and deal with it like the everyone else.
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No, my point is that they are shutting up and dealing with it. It's time for everyone to shut up, deal with the fact that it happens to everyone these days, and move on to something else.
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It would be nice if it could work that way. ::)
There is still WAY too much stuff going on to turn a blind eye.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean that it's not happening.
No, my point is that they are shutting up and dealing with it. It's time for everyone to shut up, deal with the fact that it happens to everyone these days, and move on to something else.
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Oh am I? If I fill out an application with the US Army Corp of Engineers (or any other government position) and I equally qualified to a minority applicant or female applicant they are automatically bumped ahead of me. That is a FACT. Jobs are awarded based on a computer points system. Additional points are added to minority and female applicants. How is that fair? Same goes for contractors. If I bid the same as a minority contractor 9 times out of 10 a big corporation is going with the minority just because they are scared someone will yell discrimination.
I'm not complaining. It is what it is.
As a Black/American Indian with a degree and having worked with the government and in big corporations, I have to say that you don't have any bloody idea of what you are talking about.
Your lot hasn't had to deal with racism and fighting for equality for almost 200 years after this country was founded.
Your lot hasn't had land taken away from you, despite your people being here before other people stepped off the boat from being kicked out to escape religious persecution.
Your lot hasn't had their entire culture nearly stripped away and being assimilated into other cultures/ways of life.
You and your ancestors have had everything granted to you since the day you and they were born, yet people like myself were treated as second and third class citizens and had to fight for every single bit of progress we have made, and now you want to play the victim. You don't know how idiotic and foolish you sound right now.
You say that you are only saying what other people are too scared to say? You're right. Only a bloody idiot like yourself would be foolish to say what you have, and try to play the victim.
Oh.. I bet that in your eyes, in the 5 300 games I've bowled, I probably had a pin knocked down by the mechanic in at least 1 frame so when I strung 12 in a row, it wouldn't be "discrimination". ::)
I'd say a hell of a lot more, but I really don't need to because I know that just from your comment alone, I must be doing something right because I'm better than you. Much, Much better than you, and it burns you to realize that.
So do keep this up. We all now know who you really are, and how anything you say could be taken with a grain of salt.
BL.
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Bradl, you are just as foolish if you think only minorities only have to work hard to gain anything.
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Bradl, you are just as foolish if you think only minorities only have to work hard to gain anything.
I never said that. What I am saying is that because things are now on equal footing with everyone, that someone would complain that things aren't fair for white males after they have had an advantage over every other race in this country since its inception, is a crock.
If you want the breaks, work hard for them. You don't complain about things not being fair after keeping others who haven't had a fair shot down. You make yourself into a better person and work hard at it. Complaining about it makes you look childish until you do something positive to affect change in everyone.
BL.
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Oh am I? If I fill out an application with the US Army Corp of Engineers (or any other government position) and I equally qualified to a minority applicant or female applicant they are automatically bumped ahead of me. That is a FACT. Jobs are awarded based on a computer points system. Additional points are added to minority and female applicants. How is that fair? Same goes for contractors. If I bid the same as a minority contractor 9 times out of 10 a big corporation is going with the minority just because they are scared someone will yell discrimination.
I'm not complaining. It is what it is.
As a Black/American Indian with a degree and having worked with the government and in big corporations, I have to say that you don't have any bloody idea of what you are talking about.
Your lot hasn't had to deal with racism and fighting for equality for almost 200 years after this country was founded.
Your lot hasn't had land taken away from you, despite your people being here before other people stepped off the boat from being kicked out to escape religious persecution.
Your lot hasn't had their entire culture nearly stripped away and being assimilated into other cultures/ways of life.
You and your ancestors have had everything granted to you since the day you and they were born, yet people like myself were treated as second and third class citizens and had to fight for every single bit of progress we have made, and now you want to play the victim. You don't know how idiotic and foolish you sound right now.You say that you are only saying what other people are too scared to say? You're right. Only a bloody idiot like yourself would be foolish to say what you have, and try to play the victim.
Oh.. I bet that in your eyes, in the 5 300 games I've bowled, I probably had a pin knocked down by the mechanic in at least 1 frame so when I strung 12 in a row, it wouldn't be "discrimination". ::)
I'd say a hell of a lot more, but I really don't need to because I know that just from your comment alone, I must be doing something right because I'm better than you. Much, Much better than you, and it burns you to realize that.
So do keep this up. We all now know who you really are, and how anything you say could be taken with a grain of salt.
BL.
Oh my bad I misunderstood the bold part
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Oh my bad I misunderstood the bold part
No problem! :)
This isn't directed at/toward you, but toward the topic in the thread since it sorta derailed. So place don't take any of this personally. I mean no disrespect to you. :)
Here is my point. My mother worked her butt off, and hard. She graduated first of her class in high school, and her school was the last segregated school in her town. She worked 2 jobs two pay her own way through college (she had 5 brothers and 4 other sisters, so there was no help from mommy or daddy there), graduated again from college at the top of her class, and worked her butt off starting out as a high school English teacher, got her Masters degree while having me in tow, to end up principal of three Senior high schools before retiring. The only 'break' my mother ever had was in the fact that she had two job offers: one in Nebraska, and one in Oklahoma. with all of the race tensions still going on in the south, she took the harder job (which put her and my father away from family) and moved up to Nebraska (600 miles away).
To claw her way up from segregation to being one of the most decorated teachers in her state as well as regional rep for the NEA, while going through a divorce and raising me as a single parent, for someone to say that they would choose someone like her over someone white just to be safe from 'discrimination' is a slap in the face not only to my mother and anyone of a non-white race, but an even bigger slap in the face to those who founded this country, who based this country on the fact that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
With all things being equal, I dare Arone24 to state or show how the Williams sisters were given advantage from the race card. How about Arthur Ashe? Althea Gibson? Jackie Robinson? Or how about someone closer: George Brenham III?
Personally, I worked my tail off to make it to the position I am in right now, Linux sysadmin. I've been at it for nearly 20 years, and I nor any employer I have worked for have used race as any contributing factor to my hiring. In fact, contrary to his ignorant post, there are laws that prohibit the exact thing he is complaining about (http://civilrights.findlaw.com/discrimination/race-discrimination-applicable-laws.html).
Back on topic, Kelly has worked her tail off to get where she is now. Her resume speaks for itself, and I doubt anyone here can compare.
But as for "shutting up and getting over it", Doing that makes you complacent in the status quo, even if it is wrong. Doing nothing doesn't make things better. By your reckoning, Rosa Parks should have moved to the back of the bus. If she had, I wouldn't have had the chance to have the brain that I do, nor be married to the wife I have, nor have interracial children. All because you think that we should just shut up and get over it because life isn't fair.
Life is what you make it out to be. If you want complacency, you live your life of complacency. I refuse to, as I will make my life out to be the best for me and my family. Kelly has for hers, just as BJK, the Williams sisters, and many other women and minorities in life.
BL.
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Yes Jackie Robinson and all those people faced problems, IN THE PAST! Neither you nor myself can control or change what our "ancestors" did or went through. Grow up and quit worrying about the past. Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's say the end to the terms indian american, African American, and white American, and just be proud to be a AMERICANs and quit toting the chip on our shoulers.
Not only minorities have it tough. I grew up the child of a single mother. I've had a full time job since I was 15 years old and have worked my ass off to this very day. I worked a full time job the whole time I was in college.
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And for the record I wasn't complaining. I was merely saying that I wish people would get over the past and realize that it happens to everyone these days and that too many people use it as an excuse or crutch.
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YOu still don't get it. it's not that he or people are living in the past. IT is the fact that it is still happening.
Example one, in our city there was a Mexican that got stopped for being drunk. The cops picked him up, and they thought it would be funny to drop him off at the local Taco Bell. Well they didn't that, and later, the guy was still drunk and walked right out in the middle of the freeway.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/09/21/delaware-man-struck-killed-after-being-dropped-off-at-taco-bell-was-3-times-over-legal-limit.html
This was just last year, so this kind of stupid shit is still going on.
Or this one after he was in an argument with a white person:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/16/georgia-high-school-student-dies-after-getting-trapped-in-wrestling-mats-in-gym/
The authorities say it's just an accident? ? ? ::)
Open your eyes my friend, it's not in the past. Not yet, I hope it soon will be.
Yes Jackie Robinson and all those people faced problems, IN THE PAST! Neither you nor myself can control or change what our "ancestors" did or went through. Grow up and quit worrying about the past. Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's say the end to the terms indian american, African American, and white American, and just be proud to be a AMERICANs and quit toting the chip on our shoulers.
Not only minorities have it tough. I grew up the child of a single mother. I've had a full time job since I was 15 years old and have worked my ass off to this very day. I worked a full time job the whole time I was in college.
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This stuff happens to people who aren't minorities just as much.
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NO, the cops don't stop Sally/ Steve Smith, for being drunk, and then drop them off at Starbucks.
And as far as the young boy, if something like that does happen, the town will be torn apart until justice is served.
So no, the same things don't happen, and never will.
Time to go, quitting time :)
Been nice debating with you though.
This stuff happens to people who aren't minorities just as much.
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This stuff happens to people who aren't minorities just as much.
Please name me one time in the past year that someone WASP was called a racial epithet.
Show me one time where a WASP gets disenfranchised from their heritage and again are reduced to second-class citizens. Within the past year. 2 years. 3 years.
For me personally, #1 happened to me 2 weeks ago. The idiot didn't know that my stepfather was in the car with me, who is a cop. I laughed in the guy's face; my stepfather had him arrested.
#2 happened to certain people of two Indian tribes, one of which was mine, despite their Constitutions prohibiting such an act.
I have yet to see something like this happen to WASPs. So please. enlighten me.
To quote Jack White from the White Stripes:
White Americans, what, nothing better to do?
Why don't you kick yourself out, you're an immigrant too
Who's using who? What should we do?
Well, you can't be a pimp and a prostitute too
I am not trying to be racist here by any means necessary, but quite the opposite: showing that you can't go from having an advantage for so long to playing the victim when all things are equal. Hence, you can't be the user (pimp) and the used (prostitute) at the same time.
BL.
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Same to you Livespive. Have a good one.
Why would anyone report it? A majority victim would never be taken seriously. Try filing a suit over discrimination with an employer. There's not an attorney in our state who would even take such a case.
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Same to you Livespive. Have a good one.
Why would anyone report it? A majority victim would never be taken seriously. Try filing a suit over discrimination with an employer. There's not an attorney in our state who would even take such a case.
Because an act of discrimination is an act of discrimination, regardless of who the victim is or where it occurs. That is why the law is there to protect people and prohibit the government and employers from committing such an act, period.
Oh, and to answer your naive question about there not being an attorney to take such a case: You do realize that the movie Philadelphia was based on a true story (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_(film)#Inspiration), correct?
How how about more knowledge dropped into your skull:
- McDonald v. Santa Fe Trail Transportation Co. (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=427&invol=273) (1976). Two White employees and one Black employee were charged with stealing property from their employer. The two White employees were fired while the Black employee was retained. In the first big reverse discrimination case, the Court decided that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is not limited to discrimination against minority persons, but includes discriminatory actions against majority persons as well.
- Lucas v. Dole (http://openjurist.org/835/f2d/532/lucas-v-dole) (1987). The Fourth Circuit refused to adopt the D.C. Circuit's "background circumstances" requirement and instead applied McDonnell Douglas test in the same way to White and Black plaintiff. White plaintiff satisfied her burden in this case where she showed that she was more qualified than the selected minority applicant, that the interviewing process was too subjective, that the minority applicant had received irregular acts of favoritism, and that other employees believed that race was a factor.
You need to find better lawyers, or better use of your brain than for such tripe comments.
BL.
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So is it not discrimination by your definition to have incentives to hire minorities, females, and minority females? If all are equal why are there incentives if everyone is working "equally" as hard?
Why does someone have to be called a racial name to be considered in the same boat as everyone else? They can be called raciest for any reason just because they are not a minority. That happens all the time. Everything the person says or does something for any reason is "raciest" because they are WASPs. In that reference it happens all the time.
If I started a net work called White Entertainment Network isn't that raciest? If I started a Congressional White Caucus would that also be raciest? Or A United WASPs College Fund? Why is it I have mens leagues and tournaments with women participants but no womens leagues or tournaments with men participants? We want to be equal and separate?
If everyone wanted to be equal we would do things accordingly to make it happen. No one wants equal, too many want an upper hand, an advantage, or something for free.
The country is divided and will stay that way for a reason. Most people do not like each other for one reason or another. Eventually it is blamed on skin color. Every one is a victim in this country for one "alleged" reason or another.
It takes away from the people who really are victims.
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3 cases huh. Look man I'm done bickering with you. I know a person who encountered such a situation and every attorney he contacted told him he wasting his time reguardless of right and wrong. You have your opinion and I have mine. The end.
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Couldn't have said it better kidlost.
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I know someone who got a college grant simply for being hawaiin...i had a job where they needed to meett the company quota for minorities and regardless of how qualified...they wanted an african american female. Period. This argument could go on for light years. Why can a african american call me a cracker in public but ths other words of choice towards an nonwhite person are frowned upon. BET is the most racist thing ive ever seen. If there was WET there would be a damn war over segregation. Im in no way a racist person and i have many friends of all kinds of color and heritage.
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Its simple observations we see every day in our "pc" world. I watched an un-news story on a commercial with my wife the other day and laughed because the "raciest" commercial was done by a black male. Me and my wife thought nothing of it but the "pc" world of new was jumping all over it.
Because the victim was white and the suspects in the lineup were black. I guess it is too realistic, if it was the other way around it would be a hate crime. Either way I guess if the victim says the suspect is black or white or whatever you wouldn't do a lineup of all one race or sex matching the description.......oh wait that is exactly what you do.
Good thing the guy was black or he would be raciest. (funny thing the guys in the lineup are his friends he got into a commercial)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/01/tyler-the-creator-racist-mountain-dew-commercial-pepsico_n_3193650.html?ir=Black+Voices
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Couldn't have said it better kidlost.
I can.
So is it not discrimination by your definition to have incentives to hire minorities, females, and minority females? If all are equal why are there incentives if everyone is working "equally" as hard?
Who has those incentives? I surely did not. My mother surely did not. My stepfather sure as hell did not. If I beat out 58 other applicants for a job, it was only because I was the most qualified for the position, and not because of any race card.
I have never played such a card, and I have even participated in the hiring process in both multimillion dollar corporations, as well as this country's very government, and can damn well ensure that it wasn't played there, period.
Your mileage may vary, or it may just be your own bitterness because you were beat out by someone who was a minority. Either way, that should tell you something about yourself.
Why does someone have to be called a racial name to be considered in the same boat as everyone else? They can be called raciest for any reason just because they are not a minority. That happens all the time. Everything the person says or does something for any reason is "raciest" because they are WASPs. In that reference it happens all the time.
You may want to ask yourself that same question. There are a plethora of offensive epithets to call someone black, and if you think that WASP is racist, you really don't have a clue about what you are talking about:
White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. As opposed to Catholic or Lutheran, etc. If you really don't know that, you really don't know your history. Blame your teaching/upbringing for that.
If I started a net work called White Entertainment Network isn't that raciest? If I started a Congressional White Caucus would that also be raciest? Or A United WASPs College Fund?
By all means, start them. That's the amazing thing about this country. You could start any of these that you would like, and still be integrated with everyone being equal. I have absolutely no problem with it.
Why is it I have mens leagues and tournaments with women participants but no womens leagues or tournaments with men participants? We want to be equal and separate?
We have this already. The PBA allows women. The USBC allows women. Hell, 3 years ago, a woman beat a man for a tournament. Better yet, pony up the money to help the PWBA get going, and you could be the first man to win in a tournament there (though I can easily picture your butt getting kicked by Diandra, Danielle McKewan, Shannon P. Shannon O., Liz, and Kelly). But if you want a Women's tournament that men can enter, get it going, and more power to you.
If everyone wanted to be equal we would do things accordingly to make it happen. No one wants equal, too many want an upper hand, an advantage, or something for free.
Is that why we have a Civil Rights Act, fought the state of Virginia and won the right to marry interracially, and prove that all races in this country are equal?
You really must hate Pres. Lincoln for having the stupid idea that we are equal. Perhaps you'd like to go back in time, tar and feather him, and paint him up as Blackface to teach him a lesson? ::)
We're equal. Shut up, and get the hell over it. If you don't want equality, Germany South Africa Albania Yugoslavia Australia ... well.. you're stuck. Get over it.
The country is divided and will stay that way for a reason. Most people do not like each other for one reason or another. Eventually it is blamed on skin color. Every one is a victim in this country for one "alleged" reason or another.
It takes away from the people who really are victims.
this country hasn't been divided since Robert Lee surrendered., and even then, they didn't want to fight about it anymore. It is only divided in your naive and rather bitter mind, and the sooner you get over that and change your thinking, the sooner you can join the 20th and 21st Century.
Heh.. Seeing that the last school with a segregated prom just had their first ever integrated prom, I would say that the last segregated place in this country is the vast capacity sitting between your ears.
I'll leave you for the night with this last little thing:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Not just Whites, not just blacks, not just Hispanics, ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. If you don't want that equality, or do not believe in it, rescind your citizenship of the USA and leave.
BL.
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Your long winded and you missed most all of my points.
Reread your replies to my comments. You make up stuff not written or even hinted at inbetween the lines. Your anger prevents you from reading clearly.
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Who has those incentives? I surely did not. My mother surely did not. My stepfather sure as hell did not. If I beat out 58 other applicants for a job, it was only because I was the most qualified for the position, and not because of any race card.
I have never played such a card, and I have even participated in the hiring process in both multimillion dollar corporations, as well as this country's very government, and can damn well ensure that it wasn't played there, period.
Your mileage may vary, or it may just be your own bitterness because you were beat out by someone who was a minority. Either way, that should tell you something about yourself.
Business and Government businesses that get incentives to hire female and minority applicants from the Government. I never said anything about you or your family but your blind rage assumes it is about you.
I never said I had the complaint of it happenning to me. I never said anything to sound bitter just pointing out the world as it is and the way business works.
You said that people are mad because the playing field is equal now. If it was equal then there wouldn't be incentives. The best applicants would get the jobs. That is the way it should be and I would never argue other wise. You however make big assumptions.
You may want to ask yourself that same question. There are a plethora of offensive epithets to call someone black, and if you think that WASP is racist, you really don't have a clue about what you are talking about:
White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. As opposed to Catholic or Lutheran, etc. If you really don't know that, you really don't know your history. Blame your teaching/upbringing for that.
Yes there are many raciest words. I never said WASPs was one. It wasn't even used in that context when I wrote it. I said that WASPs are called raciest. We aren't called racial names because none exist that really seem to stick. However we are always raciest for anything that doesn't go in the favor of someone else or if someone else has no other good argument. Then out comes the race card and the you are a raciest cause.... comments. Just because someone isn't called a racial name doesn't mean that can't be called other things to do the same point.
By all means, start them. That's the amazing thing about this country. You could start any of these that you would like, and still be integrated with everyone being equal. I have absolutely no problem with it.
It is good that you do not have a problem with it, but it would be called raciest if it were done. You know it would be met with huge up roar because of the "raciest" nature of it. Because it is white, not black, hispanic, or any other race. It is tolerated by others because the world is to P.C. to say other wise.
We have this already. The PBA allows women. The USBC allows women. Hell, 3 years ago, a woman beat a man for a tournament. Better yet, pony up the money to help the PWBA get going, and you could be the first man to win in a tournament there (though I can easily picture your butt getting kicked by Diandra, Danielle McKewan, Shannon P. Shannon O., Liz, and Kelly). But if you want a Women's tournament that men can enter, get it going, and more power to you.
Why should I pony up the money to support something that doesn't survive on its own? The PWBA is gone for a reason. Just because the NBA chooses to fund the WNBA doesn't make it a good idea. Why do you assume I want to bowl them? I could care less about them or their tournaments. If it is an equal world why are men and womens tournaments divided with women being allowed to bowl the mens tournaments? Just call it a mix, or a womens. Since it can not be just a "mens" tournament.
Is that why we have a Civil Rights Act, fought the state of Virginia and won the right to marry interracially, and prove that all races in this country are equal?
You really must hate Pres. Lincoln for having the stupid idea that we are equal. Perhaps you'd like to go back in time, tar and feather him, and paint him up as Blackface to teach him a lesson?
We're equal. Shut up, and get the hell over it. If you don't want equality, Germany South Africa Albania Yugoslavia Australia ... well.. you're stuck. Get over it.
Where to start on this raciest mess. If everything is equal then this debate isn't happening. Ask any black, hispanic or others if this country is equal and see what percentage says no versus yes. Most (people) don't care about equal anymore, what they want is "theirs" and at any cost. It will never be equal because too many feel they are entitled to more because of their race.
this country hasn't been divided since Robert Lee surrendered., and even then, they didn't want to fight about it anymore. It is only divided in your naive and rather bitter mind, and the sooner you get over that and change your thinking, the sooner you can join the 20th and 21st Century.
Heh.. Seeing that the last school with a segregated prom just had their first ever integrated prom, I would say that the last segregated place in this country is the vast capacity sitting between your ears.
This country is very divided. It is in the news every day in some shape form or fashion. It is always divided by race, sometimes by sex, and sometimes by religion. It is still very divided. Doesn't everyone in Lousianna think that the President didn't do anything for them because they are black? That stuff is consistently being brought up. I didn't make it up in my head. I watch this on the news.
Not just Whites, not just blacks, not just Hispanics, ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. If you don't want that equality, or do not believe in it, rescind your citizenship of the USA and leave.
Yes we are all created equally. It doesn't mean we act like it. After reading your post I'd say your one of the biggest raciest on this site I've seen so far. The sad thing is, you can't see it.
You literally made up things I did not write and added it to your replies because you made up in your mind of anger that it was what I was thinking.
How sad for you.
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Business and Government businesses that get incentives to hire female and minority applicants from the Government. I never said anything about you or your family but your blind rage assumes it is about you.
I have no rage. What you simply do not get is that my experiences in my life run contrary to everything that you say. and I have history to show for that. But it wouldn't be right for me to force you to see facts. So I'll leave you be until you are further enlightened.
I never said I had the complaint of it happenning to me. I never said anything to sound bitter just pointing out the world as it is and the way business works.
Well they passed a law in '64 to give those who ain't got, a little more
But it only goes so far
'Cause the law don't change another's mind when all they see at the hiring time
Is the line on the color bar
That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
But don't you believe them
Funnily enough: relevant lyrics, from a song written and produced in 1986, about what happened with race discrimination prior to 1964.
You said that people are mad because the playing field is equal now. If it was equal then there wouldn't be incentives. The best applicants would get the jobs. That is the way it should be and I would never argue other wise. You however make big assumptions.
I have my job, as I beat out the best applicants Like I said before, if you want to beat the best, you have to be the best. You can not sit around and throw the blame of why one didn't get the job on someone else because of their race or because of someone else's policies. I can't change people's colour. But what can be changed are people's minds and their thinking about it. Change yourself from within to affect change outside of you.
Yes there are many raciest words. I never said WASPs was one. It wasn't even used in that context when I wrote it. I said that WASPs are called raciest. We aren't called racial names because none exist that really seem to stick. However we are always raciest for anything that doesn't go in the favor of someone else or if someone else has no other good argument. Then out comes the race card and the you are a raciest cause.... comments. Just because someone isn't called a racial name doesn't mean that can't be called other things to do the same point.
This is probably the wisest thing you have said in this thread, and I agree with it 100%. If you note, I not once have referred to you as racist, nor do I think you are. The very fact that you are having this debate with me without it dropping down to constant name calling speaks volumes, and I respect you for that.
It is good that you do not have a problem with it, but it would be called raciest if it were done. You know it would be met with huge up roar because of the "raciest" nature of it. Because it is white, not black, hispanic, or any other race. It is tolerated by others because the world is to P.C. to say other wise.
Hardly. Is it any different from CMT or GAC? Was there an uproar with OWN, Lifetime, or LRW? How about Spike? or Logo? All of those networks cover the whole run, from gender, to race, to sexual orientation. If anything, the History channel should take the cake because there isn't at least 1 time in a day where they don't air a show about Hitler.
This really isn't an issue anymore, except for what some people make it out to be.
Why should I pony up the money to support something that doesn't survive on its own? The PWBA is gone for a reason. Just because the NBA chooses to fund the WNBA doesn't make it a good idea. Why do you assume I want to bowl them? I could care less about them or their tournaments. If it is an equal world why are men and womens tournaments divided with women being allowed to bowl the mens tournaments? Just call it a mix, or a womens. Since it can not be just a "mens" tournament.
Sorta like the National Mixed tournament every year at the Stadium? What a novel idea.
Where to start on this raciest mess. If everything is equal then this debate isn't happening. Ask any black, hispanic or others if this country is equal and see what percentage says no versus yes. Most (people) don't care about equal anymore, what they want is "theirs" and at any cost. It will never be equal because too many feel they are entitled to more because of their race.
And this gets back to the point about Arone's comment. His expresses the exact sense of entitlement you are railing on about. Perhaps a look in the mirror is needed regarding that and we ill see what indeed the problem is.
This country is very divided. It is in the news every day in some shape form or fashion. It is always divided by race, sometimes by sex, and sometimes by religion. It is still very divided. Doesn't everyone in Lousianna think that the President didn't do anything for them because they are black? That stuff is consistently being brought up. I didn't make it up in my head. I watch this on the news.
There is your problem. Watching the news. I'll save that for a thread in the offtopic forum.
Look, no-one said that this union of united states is perfect, but that we have everything stated in the preamble to our Constitution there to help to form a more perfect union. If you want that divisibility, or don't like how much further we are on the road to true equality, like I said before, it is easy to renounce your citizenship and leave. That's the great thing about this country; within the bounds of applicable law, no-one is going to stop you from doing what you want, and that includes leaving, should you so wish it.
Yes we are all created equally. It doesn't mean we act like it. After reading your post I'd say your one of the biggest raciest on this site I've seen so far. The sad thing is, you can't see it.
And here is where my respect for you drops. I find it funny that as I've mentioned that I've married interracially and have interracial children that I am a racist. And that is also with me being of mixed descent myself.
You literally made up things I did not write and added it to your replies because you made up in your mind of anger that it was what I was thinking.
That's the lovely part about the 'insert quote' button. I couldn't make up things if the forum adds your exact words to my post. That is why I quote instead of cut/paste. You will find every single word of your post that I have replied to directly above my reply. If I have put words in your moth, feel free to read through each post and look for your quote. You will see that when you compare it to your original post, your words are all there.
Or perhaps that has gone over your head as well. If so, my apologies. But I won't dumb down my knowledge to your level just so you can understand me.
How sad for you.
Thank you for your sympathy. But seeing that I can hold my head high just based on my experience, knowledge, and the fact that I can be the best me that I can, I believe you will find your sympathy rather misplaced.
BL.
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Wow kidlost you and I are wasting our breath. The pot is calling the kettle black. Back to the point if Kelly Kullick was a man we wouldn't be having this debate. If Danica Patrick wasn't a woman she'd be sitting her ass at home watching NASCAR on TV. My point is that I think it is wrong to promote mediocre talent just because someone is woman.
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And here is where my respect for you drops. I find it funny that as I've mentioned that I've married interracially and have interracial children that I am a racist. And that is also with me being of mixed descent myself.
That doesn't change the raciest things you said. It is all through your responses included with your sarcasm and degradation. I'm glad people who are married inter-racially are the new standard of knowing what racism is and isn't. It is comforting to see how far short it falls on you. I'm glad a a network with a a races color in the title is considered the same as the ones you listed which do not list race at all. Country is a race? History because it shows stuff on Hitler is some how also about race? Cause he is white right?
Most of your replys still miss the point or go around it all together. It is great that that the news reporting on these problems is my problem and that it doesn't exist.
You really must hate Pres. Lincoln for having the stupid idea that we are equal. Perhaps you'd like to go back in time, tar and feather him, and paint him up as Blackface to teach him a lesson?
We're equal. Shut up, and get the hell over it. If you don't want equality, Germany South Africa Albania Yugoslavia Australia ... well.. you're stuck. Get over it.
It is only divided in your naive and rather bitter mind, and the sooner you get over that and change your thinking, the sooner you can join the 20th and 21st Century.
Heh.. Seeing that the last school with a segregated prom just had their first ever integrated prom, I would say that the last segregated place in this country is the vast capacity sitting between your ears.
If you don't want that equality, or do not believe in it, rescind your citizenship of the USA and leave.
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Why the hell is this even a topic of conversation? I get it, but what did you expect?
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What I saw on TV this morning before bed.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/40153/national-hero-knew-something-was-wrong-when-a-white-girl-ran-into-a-black-man-s-arms
"I knew something was wrong when a little pretty white girl ran into a black man’s arms"
I make it up or it isn't real when it is in the news.
A simple google search of civil rights, racism, ect all show a lot of interesting and current problems in the U.S. that I didn't make up. I should leave and renounce my citizenship because I admit they are there? I've never said any of it is right, only that it exist. If you say it doesn't then your obviously not living in the same country.
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Some people think KK is over rated because she is a female. Same for other women such as DP in racing and ect.
Kelly is a great bowler. Obviously by her career she has nothing to prove. Fan/general population ignorance on a subject means nothing. If you can learn not to pay attention to what a lot of people perceive to be true and focus on facts you will have a lower chance of being found dead at your keyboard from an aneurysm.
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100+ elite athletes can't be wrong. Ask anyone that really knows the game and they will put Kelly amongst the world's best, regardless of sex.
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If I might interject now that we're talking bowling again...8 of the worlds best had a chance to pick her for the PBA League. 8 players that know the game better than almost anyone. She was barely even picked. As I recall, they had already started picking up regional players by the time she came up...AND she was involved in the only player trade (as an alternate to boot). I'm so convinced the very best consider her at their level. Her career with the PBA speaks for itself.
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If I might interject now that we're talking bowling again...8 of the worlds best had a chance to pick her for the PBA League. 8 players that know the game better than almost anyone. She was barely even picked. As I recall, they had already started picking up regional players by the time she came up...AND she was involved in the only player trade (as an alternate to boot). I'm so convinced the very best consider her at their level. Her career with the PBA speaks for itself.
Yet you had people like Haugen, who isn't on staff with anyone, was pissed that no-one selected him, and yet went on to win a title during the league. Shows that someone thought of her at their level, especially when she was selected over others holding multiple titles and majors.
Either way, I guess we'll find out the answer to this question at this year's US Open.
http://www.bpaa.com/NewsArchives/newsRelease.asp?ID=383
BL.
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Personally, I think the team format would have been much more entertaining if it had been mixed. I would require each team to have a minimum of two females, and at least one of them bowling every game.
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If I might interject now that we're talking bowling again...8 of the worlds best had a chance to pick her for the PBA League. 8 players that know the game better than almost anyone. She was barely even picked. As I recall, they had already started picking up regional players by the time she came up...AND she was involved in the only player trade (as an alternate to boot). I'm so convinced the very best consider her at their level. Her career with the PBA speaks for itself.
Yet you had people like Haugen, who isn't on staff with anyone, was pissed that no-one selected him, and yet went on to win a title during the league. Shows that someone thought of her at their level, especially when she was selected over others holding multiple titles and majors.
Either way, I guess we'll find out the answer to this question at this year's US Open.
http://www.bpaa.com/NewsArchives/newsRelease.asp?ID=383
BL.
Don't forget, Haugen was coming off of an injury too. I think that has more to do with him not getting picked than anything else.
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what was his injury?
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what was his injury?
After further digging, I can't seem to find anything. I thought I remember the telecast mentioning an injury that was suppose to sideline him for a bit and that was why some believe he wasn't picked. I could be wrong though.
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I believe he was coming off knee surgery. He wasn't fully recovered when they had the draft, but was 100% by the time the WSOB came around. Again this is just coming from memory and may not be 100% accurate.
I have tried to stay out of this, but since I am posting, I will address the OP. Is Kelly Kulick overrated, not a chance in hell. She is one of the best female bowlers of all time. She has shown that when the shot is tough and RPM's don't give someone an added advantage, she can and has competed equally with the men. Whether by design or by accident, a lot of the PBA patterns play towards the hands of those with more RPM's. The only person who has shown they can overcome this is Pete Weber because of his ungodly side rotation which gets the ball down the lane and creates angles similar to the power players of today. Did we see Norm Duke on TV this season, WRW Jr? Not like in the past. That is because of the advantages the high RPM players have. Kelly is not having the success she once did because of this as well. Add to the fact that there are now also more talented people overall on tour, with the addition of the foreign players who have come over. Her lack of success on the recent tour does degrade her skill level or her place in history one bit. And to think she is overrated is a disservice to her and to bowling in general.
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Poor arone. Playing the poor mistreated white man card again like he did in the Scott Norris tirade of his. Keep playing he fool, Arone. Very comical.
To the OP, I wish I had Kulick's game. Jorge's right, it's a high-rev game on the PBA. You either got em or you don't. Those that don't, don't win.
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Fool????? Heck at least I know the man's name!
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StickZ, I am pretty sure that Haugen had a knee problem that required arthroscopic surgery, but he has evidently recovered very well.
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Personally, I think the team format would have been much more entertaining if it had been mixed. I would require each team to have a minimum of two females, and at least one of them bowling every game.
A big +1 .....
I didn't really like the team format to begin with, but mixing in the top tier women would have made the shows fun to watch. As it was, there were times when it felt like watching paint dry.
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Fool????? Heck at least I know the man's name!
Bet you do since you hate him and his "kind" so much. How could you forget his name after that?
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The only "unpopular statement" relating to Kelly Kulick is that unforgettable moment on TV when Kelly hands the TOC trophy to her mom, who clearly replies, "I'll make it an ashtray." This isn't new -- we all heard it. Is it possible that the trophy is actually full of cigarette ashes next to the couch?