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Author Topic: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule  (Read 24819 times)

riggs

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Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« on: July 02, 2012, 08:08:58 AM »
The 11th Frame: Changes for PBA Tour's 2012-13 season don't alter tough bottom line for players

http://11thframe.com/page/blog_id_5192
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kidlost2000

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2012, 09:00:08 PM »
Yes riggs I'm certainly not referring to the tour players with fans interaction or what ever they choose to do. The rep was referring to getting them to promote sales more and talk with shop guys when they are out on tour. Which I think would be awesome even if for only 15-30mins.

In reference to the original topic of "saving the tour" we have kicked the horse to death on here to no end. Part of it is because we all have a lot of passion of  seeing it succeed even if our opinions differ on how. There have been a ton of great ideas mentioned but we all know it isn't our business and we can only talk about it. Most people mention how strictly the PBA runs there forum and how quick they are to delete post and people. So I don't see that as being a option either.

I literally just got home from an eating pizza at a local joint that had 10-12 tvs all on different ESPN networks and the one closest to us had the PBA shootout going. My wife sees me look up and rolls her eyes. I don't say anything and she starts watching as well. Three shots in, she ask why are they only throwing one ball, and I explain. She says "wow that is stupid" and never looks up again. I'm the only one in a full wide open restaurant watching and I looked around often to see if anyone else ever did.
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riggs

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2012, 07:24:07 AM »
kidlost, totally agree with ya on the Summer Shootout this year! Formats are something you can talk about FOREVER -- and I've been in a few of those discussions over the years LOL -- but I don't know anyone who checked out the Summer Shootout that liked the 1-ball thing. Sigh.
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ccrider

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2012, 10:53:14 AM »
Quote from: Xcessive_Evil on July 13, 2012, 07:10:11 PM
And, what seems to have been lost in this whole gaggle^%#*, was the original blog.  How the hell can we maturely discuss what's "wrong" with the PBA, when can't even do so without some contest about who has the bigger *&$^...
Quote from: Xcessive_Evil on July 13, 2012, 07:10:11 PM

This is what I was thinking as I was reading the latest post.

Riggs, being a reporter you surely understand that everyone has a right to state their opinion. Some opinions may be well founded some may not. Some hearsay may  turn out to be accurate.  I don't think that any of the posters claim to be journalist. So why not rationally discredit what you disagree with in the post rather than assailing the poster's right to say it?

Also, why not give the rest of us credit for being able to draw rational conclusions about what is posted. Why would you assume that we would think that the op was referring to all professional bowlers. Sure, he made a general accusation but I think we most of us understood that he was not criticizing all pro bowlers.

Last LGD makes a valid point about the pro's stepping up.  I can not recall any of them saying much to address what is mostly their own problem.  The one that you quote is unwilling to speak out publicly. The pros have not organized to do anything to promote their position with the PBA or promote the sport.
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riggs

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2012, 11:06:51 AM »
CC, my prior posts already answer all these questions.
Everyone has a right to an opinion and everyone else has a right to disagree with someone on that opinion, which is what I did.
I wanted kidlost to post more than a general statement that besmirches the reputation of EVERY PBA pro because it did nothing to specify the who.  When he provided that info my reason for criticizing ceased to exist and we discussed it.
And I noted LGD's point may have validity today and then gave some historical background as to what the Touring Pros group (that I was a part of) did to fight for their rights back in the 1980s.
It's worth pointing out that a lot of what goes on behind the scenes many people  know nothing of ... meaning when you assume nothing is being done it's not necessarily true.
There have been plenty of guys through the years who have publically criticized the PBA, notably Mike Devaney and Ryan Shafer to name two. If you've missed that you're not paying attention very well. Spend some time on Facebook and you will see a lot of that sort of thing.
The guy who contacted me is just a young rising star and he is fearful of what taking a public stand might do to his future. You can criticize him for that but it doesn't change his message.
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riggs

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2012, 11:09:48 AM »
Quote from: riggs on July 09, 2012, 05:08:44 AM
Quote from: kidlost2000 on July 08, 2012, 04:17:14 PM
I also have heard a lot of complaints about tour players not wanting to take the time to do extra. Like visit with the fans, visit with proshops, do a meet and greet or things along those lines when out on tour to promote them, or their manufactures.

If you don't have PBA bowlers that want to go the extra mile to get more fans then why do we as fans want to go the extra mile for the PBA?

It isn't all pros, but I've heard it is several that act this way.

Please think about what you are doing here!

By not citing any specific facts or names you in effect smear the name of every PBA Tour player.

"I've heard" a lot of things. They don't allow hearsay in courts for good reason -- it's quite often absolute garbage.

You got accusations and some facts, name them, allow them to defend themselves, and spare the innocent of collective accusation.

This was my first reaction to Kidlost - nowhere in this did I assail his right to have an opinion. I asked him to think about what he was doing and provide specifics if he could.
 
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riggs

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2012, 11:18:02 AM »
One thing that was suggested was having the players buy the Tour. This is LAUGHABLE. Like these guys have the money to buy the Tour. ROTFLMAO! The owners lost tens of millions and they aren't selling the PBA brand for thousands.

And bidding from other TV networks? That would be awesome if there were any networks interested in paying to air the PBA. If anyone knows of one, I am sure Seattle would love to be introduced.

The player-run PBA was headed to death by bankruptcy when the tech guys stepped in and bought it. That model was tried and failed.

The question is finding the model that WILL work - if one exists.

One idea I like is BPAA owning PBA, hiring good people to run it and market it who are then able to sell the entire industry to sponsors: pros, bowling center access for their products, league bowlers (BPAA & USBC are partners these days), and open bowlers.

That package might interest some big-time sponsors.
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Long Gone Daddy

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2012, 02:01:31 PM »
Yeah, as LAUGHABLE as Eddie Elias talking 33 bowlers into giving him $50 each and forming the PBA in 1958.  Yeah, let it go on the way it has, keep waiting for that knight in shining armor to rescue it instead of going out and finding sponsors on your own, holding your own tournaments, producing your own shows, and finding a network willing to pay to put your show on.  Can people make a full time living while starting over?  Who knows?  The Tour is part-time now with part-time money.  They can't do any worse and they can probably do a hell of a lot better.  You should help them out, blogger, think of all the stories that can be written as the fledging player owned PBA gets off the ground. 
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Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2012, 01:52:10 AM »
What is LAUGHABLE is the BPAA running the PBA.   You got to be kidding me,  are you trying to be PC about this Riggs, or do you seriously believe this? I think anyone who thinks the BPAA does a good job is nuts.

You can't seriously think the BPAA does a good job at anything they do? 

The PBA is not run right now,  it would be a complete circus if the BPAA was involved.

I have zero faith in any of the alphabet organizations when it comes to promotion, growth and spending of funds.   

« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 01:57:18 AM by Bowling 300 900 »
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riggs

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2012, 05:52:15 AM »
Quote from: Bowling 300 900 on July 15, 2012, 01:52:10 AM
What is LAUGHABLE is the BPAA running the PBA.   You got to be kidding me,  are you trying to be PC about this Riggs, or do you seriously believe this? I think anyone who thinks the BPAA does a good job is nuts.

You can't seriously think the BPAA does a good job at anything they do? 

The PBA is not run right now,  it would be a complete circus if the BPAA was involved.

I have zero faith in any of the alphabet organizations when it comes to promotion, growth and spending of funds.   

No, no, no! With you on this!

Here is what I wrote:

One idea I like is BPAA owning PBA, hiring good people to run it and market it who are then able to sell the entire industry to sponsors: pros, bowling center access for their products, league bowlers (BPAA & USBC are partners these days), and open bowlers.

PLEASE NOTE the key phrase "hiring good people to run it"

Owning and running/operating are two very different things.

The factor that would perhaps appeal to sponsors that BPAA OWNERSHIP provides is access to the ENTIRE INDUSTRY at all levels -- pros, centers for product sales & promotion, leagues (through USBC) and open bowlers (at centers).

Sorry about this ... I should have been more explicit in explaining this idea (which FYI I am not taking credit for creating).
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riggs

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2012, 05:57:16 AM »
Quote from: Long Gone Daddy on July 14, 2012, 02:01:31 PM
Yeah, as LAUGHABLE as Eddie Elias talking 33 bowlers into giving him $50 each and forming the PBA in 1958.  Yeah, let it go on the way it has, keep waiting for that knight in shining armor to rescue it instead of going out and finding sponsors on your own, holding your own tournaments, producing your own shows, and finding a network willing to pay to put your show on.  Can people make a full time living while starting over?  Who knows?  The Tour is part-time now with part-time money.  They can't do any worse and they can probably do a hell of a lot better.  You should help them out, blogger, think of all the stories that can be written as the fledging player owned PBA gets off the ground. 

Which is it? A new organization or a player-owned PBA?

New organization can't use PBA brand and doesn't have the history - which arguably is the most valuable thing PBA has right now. Good luck selling some new organization to compete against PBA.

If you want the PBA, good luck coming up with enough to buy it, then enough to run it and grow it.

And I mean good luck sincerely - I'd love to see PBA succeed anyway it can. I care about opportunities for bowlers, not who owns PBA.

Still think the most logical thing is BPAA ownership hiring a good team to operate PBA.

##############

Update: I have been informed/corrected that there have been extensive marketing offerings in past couple of seasons that featured both PBA and BPAA center product access/activation together ... without success.  I knew BPAA and PBA were working closer together but not to the extent I was told.  Can't really say more at this point but I apologize for not having that info.

Would BPAA ownership make a difference?  The optimist in me wants to believe that if PBA was an actual BPAA property they would come up with the funds and the effort to make it work (with USBC league bowler access directly involved hopefully).  But I must confess that I am perhaps looking at the world through rose colored glasses there.

If that is the case, it may not matter who owns or markets PBA with whatever partners ... that fits with my view that PBA's current owners and operators really don't deserve much blame for the state of the PBA in this economy ... but it also paints a dire picture of any possible comeback.

I always go back to the fact that PBA was essentially done in 2000 before it was bought and that tens of millions poured into it with a lot of interesting ideas tried by a lot of people with solid track records amounted to where we are now.

I do not believe in knights in shining armor, BTW -- heck, that is what the tech guys essentially were when they bought PBA more than a decade ago.

Sigh.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 11:42:31 AM by riggs »
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Bowling 300 900

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2012, 07:53:30 AM »
That makes more sense then. 
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ccrider

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2012, 02:27:57 PM »
The professional bowlers need to organize, form an agenda and then actively pursue a strategy.
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Long Gone Daddy

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2012, 04:34:43 PM »
Nah, they need to continue on the path to irrelevancy they've been on for the last ten years and wait for the shining knight to save them.  He's out there, the industry insiders say so. 
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Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

TheProprietorsCup

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2012, 03:50:20 AM »
I can't believe that a fortune is not being made in bowling. After the Inaugural Proprietors Cup, I can tell you the following stats.
Friday - Senior Megabuck - 4 bowlers @ $400 - $1,440 1st Place. (Matt Gibson)
Friday evening - Ace Mitchell All-Star Team Challenge - $250/team, 14 all-star teams sponsored $10k prize fund. 42 teams, 5 per team, $5,000 to All-Star Team Champs (Team Ebonite), $5,000 to top amateur team (Get R Dun), over $30,000 in brackets
Saturday/Sunday - The Proprietors Cup - $1,100 buy in -  55 paid entries, $55,000 prize fund, Shannon Pluhowsky wins ($15,950). Tournament paid 1:5.
I bring this up because I had NO added prize for the Pro-Cup. I needed NO sponsors. It was aired on insidebowling.com for free, they had 95,000 hits on Sunday (finals) and there was NO COST to watch.
We ran satellite events all over the country, as does poker. Brandon Novak won 2nd place, $9,900, and he won his $1,100 entry at a satellite event for $65. Many will say, this tournament was on a MOD. House Shot, what good is that. Well my goal with this event is to show the 'average Joe Bowler' how good these bowlers are. They don't know 'sport' shots or why their fellow league bowlers shoot higher scores then the pros on television. The problem with bowling is 97% of bowlers don't average 220 or higher, they are not 'tournament bowlers' but everyone thinks they are educated enough in bowling to understand 'lane conditions'. Until we educate the 1.7 million league bowlers how good these pros are, nothing will ever get better!
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kidlost2000

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Re: Blunt talk from young PBA star on 2012-13 schedule
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2012, 02:32:57 PM »
Make bowling a watchable sport. Then you can get money from others to invest.

Also don't put your sport up against the NFL. Not now, not ever. Fantasy football alone makes more money in one season then the PBA will see in ten years. Seriously get a different time slot.
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.
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