Post by: TWOHAND834 on January 25, 2004, 01:28:17 AM
I love to watch Chris Barnes bowl. He is smooth and very intense. But, is it me, or does it seem as though he has a very hard time getting through a game without leaving a big split? Everytime I watch him on tv, he seems to get into a groove, like today. When out of nowhere, 3 board tug and it is split city. Is it just a loss of concentration? Is it a mental block? I wanted to scream when I saw him leave the 4-6-7 after a 4 or 5 bagger. When he makes a show, I keep thinking that this is his time. No splits, no opens. It always seems to happen in the latter stages of the match, from 6th frame on. Can anyone else elaborate on this?
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 25, 2004, 05:01:36 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Buzzhead on January 25, 2004, 05:11:03 PM
Choke!!! only he does it in front of a million of so fans... on national TV.
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Saws are made to cut ANYTHING including 10 pins
Post by: morpheus on January 25, 2004, 05:22:17 PM
Post by: Rileybowler on January 25, 2004, 05:27:39 PM
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 25, 2004, 05:36:36 PM
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 25, 2004, 05:37:54 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 25, 2004, 05:40:08 PM
Just my opinion.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 25, 2004, 05:46:54 PM
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: Mr Bass on January 25, 2004, 06:09:12 PM
There was one guy rooting against him at the alley this afternoon and after Walter won, another screamed "Time to buy another battery for the wife's Hi-Lo!"
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"Smokey this is not 'Nam this is bowling, there are rules"
Post by: morpheus on January 25, 2004, 06:31:32 PM
Post by: DON DRAPER on January 25, 2004, 07:16:34 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 25, 2004, 07:46:41 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: brimar on January 25, 2004, 07:51:34 PM
Last weeks show the the most exciting and fun to watch. Todays show was boring. one guy even shot a 146. Walter ray is one of the best bowlers out, but one of the dullest. Mr. Barnes doesnt exactly ring with excitement either. I really dont care about the pressure or the choking. I want to be entertained when i watch it on TV. Seeing a guy bowl a 146 is a joke, and patrick allen went to the 10th frame before throwing a strike.
If thats your idea of excitement well thats great. You could probably see most of what you saw today on a wednesday handicap league just about anywhere. Just today someone won money and a trophey
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Aww shucks....another solid 5 pin 8===========D O-:
Post by: DON DRAPER on January 25, 2004, 07:55:47 PM
Post by: brimar on January 25, 2004, 08:00:26 PM
Seeing a nobody shoot a 146 is just crap, and a waste of time and plain boring. the first 45 min of that telecast is the very reason the average person DOESNT WATCH IT. Only you die hard people do. You can disagree with me on this all you want but all you have to do is check the ratings.
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Aww shucks....another solid 5 pin 8===========D O-:
Edited on 1/25/2004 8:57 PM
Post by: Urethane Game on January 25, 2004, 08:04:47 PM
Most league bowlers and typical house bowlers would never be in a position to shoot 146 on TV. You put DJ up against any typical house bowler on a house condition or a sport condition and he would crush 'em. He is a professional and will most likely be exempt at the end of the year.
Sport Bowling is difficult. It is supposed to be difficult!!! I prefer to see close matches but they do not have to be high scoring to be compelling. I'm sure I could see Brimar get an 8 bagger on the bumpers if I happened upon him in his local bowling center.
As for Chris "choking", It ws the second highest game of the day. I'll take 239 every day on a sport condition. It may not win every game but it would have beaten Walter Ray in the previous match.
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www.desplainesradio.com
Edited on 1/25/2004 9:02 PM
Post by: brimar on January 25, 2004, 08:08:12 PM
B. You can see all the close crap matches you wanna watch. WHAT IM SAYING IS. IM SURE THE SPONSORS ARE LINING UP AFTER TODAYS SHOW.
What ever happened to the womens broadcasts? hmmm
Post by: debs130 on January 25, 2004, 09:07:36 PM
Debbie
Post by: Urethane Game on January 25, 2004, 09:12:25 PM
Sponsors are not interested in whether DJ Archer shoots 146 one week on a difficult condition anymore than a pro golfer who struggles at Augusta at the Masters in the final round unless that golfer is Tiger.
Hope that helps, Hoss!
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www.desplainesradio.com
Post by: DON DRAPER on January 25, 2004, 10:14:26 PM
chris barnes is the future of the pba.
Post by: Mr Bass on January 25, 2004, 10:17:59 PM
quote:
Im sorry greg but i disagree.
Last weeks show the the most exciting and fun to watch. Todays show was boring. one guy even shot a 146. Walter ray is one of the best bowlers out, but one of the dullest. Mr. Barnes doesnt exactly ring with excitement either. I really dont care about the pressure or the choking. I want to be entertained when i watch it on TV. Seeing a guy bowl a 146 is a joke, and patrick allen went to the 10th frame before throwing a strike.
Yeah I agree about last week, one of the best matches I've seen in years. I'm waiting for one that I missed out on last year: The "dream match" as the commentators put it. Walter Ray vs. PDW...
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"Smokey this is not 'Nam this is bowling, there are rules"
Post by: Doc Hollywood on January 25, 2004, 11:02:00 PM
The show was boring to watch. PA, Barnes, WRW,jr are all boring to watch bowl.
It was nice to see a bit of character from Mika with the six guns or even when WRW brought out a little.
I think overall it is that kind of character and Positive Mental Attitude that helps make positive things happen. The use of all that positive energy from the fans and the audience just seems to make things happen.
Granted all of the bowlers have skill but often times you need something more to get the win.
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Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com
Post by: Strider on January 26, 2004, 01:08:31 AM
Also, Chris has only been a pro for a few years and has 5? titles. WRW has gone a lot longer (20+ years, 30+ titles) before finally capturing The Masters. This had to be extra gratifying after being runner up last year.
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Penn State Proud
Post by: charlest on January 26, 2004, 06:32:27 AM
YOu want excitement? Go watch a fight; maybe you'll get lucky and a hockey game will break out.
You want to watch the best bowling, watch the PBA on TV.
If you don't know what exciting bowling is, then don't blame the bowlers.
Nuff said.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
"No good deed goes unpunished."
Post by: brimar on January 26, 2004, 08:03:14 AM
For 1, i enjoy watching the telecast, i just stated that this weeks show was boring, the shot might have been tough agreed, but i dont want to watch anyone bowl a 146 on tv. hell i dont wanna watch a teammate do it. My original replay just stated i thought last weeks show was great, one of the best ive ever seen.
Do i think i can do what chris barnes does? not a chance in hell, But that doesnt mean i have to watch him or even be interested.
oh and by the way i love hockey, but since the neutral zone trap was perfected that games been ruined also and turned into some boring holding and grabbing festival. I live in buffalo area and for a while we had the best goalie in the game, well least most exciting.
Finally as i stated, if watching someone bowl a 146 and another guy bowl 1 strike for first 45 minutes of a broadcast well then.......i dont think i need to say anymore now do i?
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 26, 2004, 08:34:48 AM
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JEFF
Rebuilding Rome one 570 series at a time !!
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 26, 2004, 08:49:07 AM
Posters say that DJ choked .. DJ NEVER FOUND A SHOT HE COULD REPEAT .. DJ must have bowled great to get to the TV matches (I only saw the TV matches).. he didn't throw ONE bad shot/he NEVER FOUND A SHOT .. I applaude any bowler throwing a ball .. but I put NONE OF THEM UP AS A GOD! If he throws a bad shot it's referred to as CHOKE .. as BARNES DID!
The Original poster asks .. can anyone else elaborate on this? I put my two cents up and I'm through with you worshippers!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 26, 2004, 09:03:27 AM
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JEFF
Rebuilding Rome one 570 series at a time !!
Post by: LuckyLefty on January 26, 2004, 09:22:09 AM
Also the shot was tailor made for an up the backer, Chris having a lot more side roll could afford no mistakes! He made one! PDW on the other hand made one the week before and yet we are praising him because he won with virtually the same score, versus Chris lost with a higher score.
Walter Ray also seems to be able to really hold on to a bowling ball due to his hand size and grip versus Chris more freeflowing flinging style which should be a little more versatile on more conditions! But the ball does come off his hand quicker!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 26, 2004, 09:28:26 AM
quote:
Chris more freeflowing flinging style which should be a little more versatile on more conditions! But the ball does come off his hand quicker!
Ever seen a slo-mo of Barnes' release!?!?!? It's sick!
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JEFF
Rebuilding Rome one 570 series at a time !!
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 26, 2004, 09:45:28 AM
quote:
Walter Ray was lined up .. ABSOLUTELY! CRIS BARNES was ALSO lined up .. HE CHOKED! There's no other way to describe what this God did! After that errant shot he was right back in the pocket!
Posters say that DJ choked .. DJ NEVER FOUND A SHOT HE COULD REPEAT .. DJ must have bowled great to get to the TV matches (I only saw the TV matches).. he didn't throw ONE bad shot/he NEVER FOUND A SHOT .. I applaude any bowler throwing a ball .. but I put NONE OF THEM UP AS A GOD! If he throws a bad shot it's referred to as CHOKE .. as BARNES DID!
The Original poster asks .. can anyone else elaborate on this? I put my two cents up and I'm through with you worshippers!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Throwing a gutter in the third part of the tenth frame. That's a choke. Having a ball slip a little on you in the seventh frame is a mistake. There is a huge difference betweent the two.
Where chris dropped the ball was only about 3 boards off from his target it looked like to me. Three inches between winning and losing, that's gotta su ck. But to call it a chike, I have to disagree.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: seadrive on January 26, 2004, 09:48:18 AM
quote:
If we dont participate or have never been "there" who are we to criticize anyones performance.
It's called being a fan, Derek. You don't have to be a professional basketball player to say "Shaq sucked last night", do you?
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: mumzie on January 26, 2004, 02:19:35 PM
"only three inches off his target"
is way too much on that kind of shot. Yes, he bowled well otherwise. Yes, he got beat. Yes, he could have won if bowling against any other player.
BUT - three inches off is a HUGE mistake for that level of bowler...
I like Chris Barnes. I thought it was really cool when he gave the ball to the kid in the front row as he ran out when introduced. I think he'll definitely be a force in the next few years.
But as for the best release on tour - have any of you had a chance to see Michael Fagan??? He's pretty young - but what a release!!! I've NEVER seen one better.
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 26, 2004, 03:58:07 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on January 26, 2004, 05:26:44 PM
People will watch pros struggling if it is explained why they are struggling (Pederson tried some this weekend) as they watch the U.S. Open or the British Open in golf. People will watch because they want to see the best on tough and easier conditions. The camera work needs to emphasize how good these guys are -- how consistent in speed (put a speed gun on them), how consistent in line and placement (create a graphic that shows their lines), how many revs they are producing (compare it to an amateur).
But I can't call the brilliance I saw this weekend boring. And D.J., well, everyone rubbernecks at auto crashes...
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"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Post by: bamaster on January 27, 2004, 03:54:47 PM
Choking can be defined as many things, but not one of them is what Chris did. He never had the lead and frankly never was given the chance to. Missing your target is not choking... it's called missing your target. If he got fast with his feet, it's not called choking... it's called getting fast with your feet.
Which one of you critics bowled the Masters? Which one has bowled any Tour stop? Yes, you can post your opinion... but unless you bowled alongside Barnes, it is worthless.
Tony
http://www.allBowling.com
Edited on 1/27/2004 4:52 PM
Post by: Platinum Bowler on January 27, 2004, 09:57:49 PM
quote:I hate when people say you cant say anything about anyone just cause you havent bowled a pro tourney, or have any of their talent, or accomplishments. Its called being a fan, and criticism. It is a critics job to analyze a movie. But that is wrong to, since they have never made thier own movies themselves, right?
Most of you aren't good enough to carry Chris's bowling bags much less good enough to judge what went out there on the lanes.
Choking can be defined as many things, but not one of them is what Chris did. He never had the lead and frankly never was given the chance to. Missing your target is not choking... it's called missing your target. If he got fast with his feet, it's not called choking... it's called getting fast with your feet.
Which one of you critics bowled the Masters? Which one has bowled any Tour stop? Yes, you can post your opinion... but unless you bowled alongside Barnes, it is worthless.
Tony
http://www.allBowling.com
Edited on 1/27/2004 4:52 PM
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B-Car
Edited on 1/27/2004 10:56 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 27, 2004, 10:24:28 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: bamaster on January 27, 2004, 10:24:40 PM
quote:
Its called being a fan, and criticism. It is a critics job to analyze a movie. But that is wrong to, since they have never made thier own movies themselves, right?
I didn't say you couldn't say anything, I just said it would be worthless.
A movie critic typically is someone who understands the extreme details of moviemaking and direction, they are expert opinion makers. They are the equivalent of Randy Petersen for televised bowling. Randy understands what's going on and he is QUALIFIED to make an opinion and as such his opinion is credible. The posters like "soon2b AZ star" are NOT qualified to make such statements and as such their opinons are without merit and value. Same thing holds true for the Barnes worshipers, coincidentaly. There are tons of posters who think he's the greatest thing since light beer, but again, their opinion is ultimately worthless.
Being a fan is great... I'm one of them. Posting opinions is also great, I do it all the time. But my opinion on the best way to build a space station is worthless. My opinion on building websites is more valuable since I am more than a fan, I am an expert.
Tony
http://www.allBowling.com
Post by: bamaster on January 27, 2004, 10:39:19 PM
quote:
However, I operate a proshop, and I know enough about the game to make judgements and critisms about pro bowlers' styles.
Let's talk about this. What makes you feel you know enough about the game? I know a pro shop operator who doesn't bowl at all, never has, doesn't even care to. I'm not trying to devalue your knowledge of putting holes in balls or even recommending a layout, but what makes you "qualified" (key word) to make a valued opinion on what goes on the lanes on Tour?
Are you a bowling sports psychologist like Dr. Dean Hinitz who understands the mental events of pressure shot making? Are you a professional bowling coach like Team USA guru Fred Borden who can see a slight deviation in bowling form and know what the root of the problem? What qualifies you to see a shot on television, to analyze it, and make an assessment of what it was and what caused it?
Just curious how a self-confessed young ball driller can claim his opinion is qualified.
Post by: bamaster on January 27, 2004, 11:06:38 PM
Getting mad at a quarterback for throwing an interception is not the same thing as saying the quarterback choked and threw the ball badly. Besides, the NFL/MLB are not the same thing as bowling, completely different dynamics.
Being passionate about bowling and being a talented ball driller is cool. But that has nothing to do with having a qualified opinion.
qual·i·fied
with the necessary skills, qualities, or attributes to do a particular thing
What do you feel are the necessary skills and qualities to have an valued opinion about if Chris Barnes choked or not?
I'll say first and foremost the person should have been exposed to a similar situation. To me that means to have bowled at least in front of an audience on television.
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 27, 2004, 11:22:07 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 27, 2004, 11:27:43 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: bamaster on January 27, 2004, 11:33:30 PM
Everyone's opinion is valid. But not everyone's opinion is qualified, is all I'm saying. Of course, I don't like to hear the negative talk. That's my personal preference. But it seems more of a bandwagon statement these days. A person might have a different opinion if he really thought about the infinite factors that goes into real pressure shot making. Do I know them all, not likely. Do I understand that I wasn't the one throwing the ball and that there is no way for me to know what was going on? Yeah.
Does choking happen? Of course. Could he have choked? Of course. Am I the one that can say that it was a choke or not? No. But then, neither or you.
The one thing that chaps my hide about this whole thing of all the things they could say about Barney, they say something negative. Whatever happened to finding the positive things he did all week?
It's the issue of choice tht disappoints me the most. The choices you make is a reflection of yourself. It speaks volumes about a person when the only thing a person can say about a talented bowler like Barney is that he is a choke artist.
I personally challenge you to look through better eyes than that.
Tony
Tony
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 27, 2004, 11:41:05 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: bamaster on January 28, 2004, 01:10:51 AM
quote:
So now you are saying that i dont respect the beauty of his stroke? Or his positive accomplishments? Because if thats what you are implying you are very mistaken.
Huh? Where are you getting this?
If I wanted to say that, I would have bluntly said that. The fact that you respect the beauty of his stroke yet still say negative things about him is what my last post was all about.
I'm done beating a dead horse and done with this thread.
Post by: spanky on January 28, 2004, 03:15:05 AM
Now I'm not calling anyone a "choke artist" or anything like that, but let's face it, some people handle pressure better than others. I think you can be a good bowler and a choke artist at the same time. If you consistently make the broadcast and come up short of the title, what are the reasons. If it's 'cause your opponent rolls a 289...ok. If it's because one more strike to seal the win and you pull it, bad release, timing is off, whatever, you're choking. If you bury the ball and get a 9 count, that's not choking.
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on January 28, 2004, 01:04:40 PM
quote:
There seems to be a lack of concensus on the definition of choking. To me, if a professional bowler (or other athlete) makes a mistake (misses mark, timing is off) then he choked. I treat making a mistake and choking as the same thing....If it's because one more strike to seal the win and you pull it, bad release, timing is off, whatever, you're choking.
Two things:
First, this is probably the sentiment underlying the "choke" label. I believe all athletes choke at times (when they are being candid, they will admit it) Most professional athletes have the following definition of "choke": that the pressure of the moment causes them to "tighten up" and change their game to such an extent that they make poor shots or poor decisions. What Barnes did wasn't choking. He didn't make a perfect shot. Human beings and professional athletes are not perfect (see here the fact that no one throws it to the pocket all the time), we make mistakes -- our physiological (we can't control our bodies to the extent that we are perfectly the same and consistent and perfect every time) and psychological systems (mainly the ability to focus and concentrate) just don't allow us to be perfect -- we are not throbots or Iron Byrons. All too often, we label something as a "choke" when it is just the effect of being non-robotic.
Second, Chris Barnes is a great player. He has won five times. He puts himself in place to win alot. Nicklaus placed second more often than he won. So did Anthony. Not winning is not choking. I'm a fan of his obvious talent and class.
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"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."