Post by: mainzer on January 24, 2010, 04:42:34 AM
Congrats Kelly for winning.
BTW Barnes did NOT choke today! Only missed the pocket once maybe twice only has a double to show for it? Bad carry not choking.
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"His Loyalty couldnt be bought at any price
but it could be rented remarkably cheaply"
-Inquisitor Allendyne-
Founding Father of the BR Inquisition
MainzerPower
Post by: stormed1 on January 24, 2010, 12:56:24 PM
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Arsenal: Mega Friction, S-75, Break Point x 2, Break x2,Clutch x,Maniac,Awakening,Lunatic,SX-1,Link,Hype urethane,Global Globe, 14# golden globe
http://s485.photobucket.com/albums/rr220/stormed1/My%20Arsenal/
Bowlingboards.com
Post by: charlest on January 24, 2010, 01:01:21 PM
Did it seem like Mika's and Barnes' worst enemy was their higher ball speed?
Kelly had plenty of carry on several light shots with her medium ball speed.
PLUS she made all her spares. I think I saw her more nervous on many TV shows, bowling against the women than she was today against the men.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Motiv Girl on January 24, 2010, 01:11:07 PM
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MOTIV GIRL
Post by: BShep on January 24, 2010, 01:17:05 PM
Post by: Spider Man on January 24, 2010, 01:18:24 PM
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Edited on 1/24/2010 2:18 PM
Post by: Juggernaut on January 24, 2010, 01:41:49 PM
Kelly's proven they can compete, and win, straight up and head-to-head with the male prefessionals, so why not?
Do away with the gimmicky womens series and let them enter just like every other PBA member.
Congratulations Kelly on some really great bowling all week, and congratulations on your first PBA tour victory. May there be more to follow for both you and any others that decide to come through the door that you BLASTED open today
.P.S. No, Barnes did not choke today, he got his behind handed to him by someone who played the lanes better, matched up better, and performed better.
I still wouldn't want to be him though. He already had the reputation of being a "choke artist", now he will also be history's footnote as the runner-up to the first female champion. It's amazing how much "bad karma" seems to follow this guy around.
--------------------
Good transactions list in my profile
ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
Post by: Kid Jete on January 24, 2010, 01:52:05 PM
Post by: riggs on January 24, 2010, 02:06:02 PM
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/article_2d23b1a8-092a-11df-9f8e-001cc4c002e0.html
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 24, 2010, 02:25:25 PM
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J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: shipper50 on January 24, 2010, 02:47:23 PM
quote:I guess drag racing is not a sport and you have never heard of Shirley Muldowny. I congratulate Kelly, she is a class act.
This is why bowling is laughed at. This would never happen in any other sport.
Shipper
Post by: tburky on January 24, 2010, 02:57:04 PM
quote:
Jete, that is exactly why bowling is BETTER than other sports!
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/article_2d23b1a8-092a-11df-9f8e-001cc4c002e0.html
great article riggs!
Post by: Fatboy8 on January 24, 2010, 03:09:44 PM
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Post by: nd300 on January 24, 2010, 03:22:38 PM
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Chris
JTTDB---Just Throw The Damn Ball
Don't "think"---that ball isn't in your bag yet..........
Post by: Dave_in_Rio_Rancho on January 24, 2010, 03:26:03 PM
Post by: Greg T on January 24, 2010, 03:29:28 PM
quote:
I guess drag racing is not a sport and you have never heard of Shirley Muldowny.
Or Ashley Force.
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Post by: Dave_in_Rio_Rancho on January 24, 2010, 05:01:16 PM
What would be challenging for the gals is bowling 64 games in a tournament, week after week. With fewer qualifying games you would see a lot less difference in the scores between guys and gals.
Could all the gals do it, no - but every country likely has a bunch of gals that can beat 99% of the guys all the time.
Bowling at the top level is a finesse game - and the gals have game.
Post by: charlest on January 24, 2010, 06:01:20 PM
I love when the truth comes out.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: n00dlejester on January 24, 2010, 06:04:18 PM
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
Post by: JessN16 on January 24, 2010, 06:06:10 PM
quote:
I suspect a lot of the people posting here have never seen an Intentional mixed doubles match. It is not exactly like the guys are holding the gals up for a win.
As opposed to an accidental mixed doubles match?
Sorry, I just lol'ed after reading that...
Jess
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on January 24, 2010, 07:35:22 PM
"The game done changed now"
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www.youtube.com/track8401
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: Rileybowler on January 24, 2010, 07:43:24 PM
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name
Post by: David Lee Yskes on January 24, 2010, 08:32:53 PM
quote:
This is why bowling is laughed at. This would never happen in any other sport.
Let me list a few Ladies who have done quite well vs the men...
Ashley Force-Hood -- drag racing
Danica Patrick - Indy
Shirley Muldowney - first lady of drag racing
Angelle Sampey - Drag racing Bike
Melanie Troxel- Drag Racing
Jean Balukas- Billiards she played in mens billiards tournaments and alot of the men didnt like facing her and i believe won a few
Karen Corr- She''s won a few mens Billiards Tournaments
there are others but no point in naming all of them..
But to say "this is why bowling is laughed at, and that it wouldnt happen in any other sport" is just being narrow minded.
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" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl " http://coolluvr4u1976.bowlspace.com/
For my vids on youtube - search coolluvr4u1976
Edited on 1/24/2010 9:33 PM
Post by: riggs on January 25, 2010, 06:19:37 AM
Billiards could perhaps be throw into the equation but it's not quite the physical task that golf, tennis and bowling are. Hand/eye coordination for sure, though.
I know how absolutely draining a PBA tournament can be physically and billiards, darts, poker, etc. don't make those sporting demands on a person.
Agree to disagree ... it's my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
Post by: Dan Belcher on January 25, 2010, 06:41:50 AM
quote:While I think Danica is horrendously overrated, I also have to defend the physical aspects of auto racing. Drivers these days have finally figured out that it's in their best interest to actually be in good shape, because 1) it requires strength to wrestle the steering wheel on any car that doesn't have power steering (NASCAR has power steering, but IndyCar/F1/etc. cars don't, and occasionally the power steering does fail on NASCAR cars, don't know off-hand about endurace racing sports cars), 2) the G-forces felt in the corners are physically exhausting (IndyCars and F1 cars corner at over 4 G's), and 3) the heat inside racecars is ridiculous, upwards of 120 degrees at times, which causes you to lose several pounds of weight in sweat in just one race. So yeah, driving a car really fast for hours on end is a lot more difficult than you'd think just from a physical standpoint, not to mention how mentally tiring it is.
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
Post by: completebowler on January 25, 2010, 06:50:47 AM
quote:
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn''t amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it''s as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
Billiards could perhaps be throw into the equation but it''s not quite the physical task that golf, tennis and bowling are. Hand/eye coordination for sure, though.
I know how absolutely draining a PBA tournament can be physically and billiards, darts, poker, etc. don''t make those sporting demands on a person.
Agree to disagree ... it''s my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I don''t think it is a conditioning thing I think there are plenty of women that could get through qualifying easier than some of the guys on tour now.
My thoughts are that MOST of the women are not versatile enough to play all angles necessary in a 64 game qualifier.
Ever seen Feldman play up the boards? Think Dorin-Ballard can get in and swing it? Now...don''t get me wrong...these women can play those lines...but their scoring pace will be severely hampered.
Now flame me if you like but Kulick is the prime example why women SHOULDN''T be full time PBA members. She was out there for a year, couldn''t get past 22nd in any individual tournament, and finished the season 54th in points. Then couldn''t get back through tour trials against a bunch of fringe pros and high end amateurs.
I think she is the best....and most versatile woman out there. And she couldn''t compete over the long haul. I think it would hurt the womens game and drive them all out of the professional ranks.
What KK did Sunday was phenomenal. Remarkable, unbelievable. But to earn a living week in week out is a different thing.
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On edit.....something else I forgot about. The sponsorships and ball contracts would dry up for most of the women. A few would be able to keep them but most would end up being free agents and lose that reliable income they now enjoy.
Edited on 1/25/2010 8:02 AM
Post by: Juggernaut on January 25, 2010, 07:35:20 AM
She threw a double in the tenth under incredible pressure to lock the door on Mika, then threw 10/12 at CB, who EVERYONE says is one of the top bowlers in the world (and only managed a 195 game), for the win on tough conditions.
It ain't golf, or wrestling, or racing, billiards, tiddleywinks, or anything else but bowling.
Have a Professional Bowlers Tour, and let ALL PROFESSIONALS compete there, men and women alike. Sink or swim, live or die, fish or cut bait, but do it on equal terms under equal conditions. And if you can't, you need to go find something else to do that you can do. Some people work at McDonalds because it is what they can do. Not everyone is cut out to be a professional bowler.
I didn't agree with Kelly's manner of qualifying for the T o C, but I don't make the rules. She was there, she bowled the required games, and she flat out won with NO EXCUSES. She's proven it can be done and that the women CAN compete right alongside the men, SO LET THEM!
There is a woman at my home center that wanted to bowl in the mens league, and petitioned to get in, but too many guys didn't want her there, and I think it was because they didn't want to get beat by "a girl". Could this be the same reason women haven't been bowling PBA events? Or could it be that they've been told so many times that they couldn't compete that they've started to believe it?
Well, NO MORE. Kelly did what everyone said couldn't be done. Now open it up and let them all try.
--------------------
Good transactions list in my profile
ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
Post by: riggs on January 25, 2010, 07:37:02 AM
My point is that NECKCAR and Indy racing and F1 are more TEAM SPORTS -- no one wins in those without great pit crews and all that. Bowling might have coaches/ball reps but once you start it's you and the lanes and the pins. A race driver can drive a phenomenal race but lose because their pit crew is slow.
And one thing to consider with Kelly is that I think she's probably a lot better than she was the year she was exempt. We'll see how she does next time around.
And there have been plenty of male PBA champs who weren't super versatile ... guys like Butch Soper and Dave Traber, for example, although I've seen dave win on the regional level playing in.
Post by: Dan Belcher on January 25, 2010, 07:47:06 AM
quote:What??? Traber playing left of the four board??? My concept of reality has been shattered. I no longer know what to believe.
And there have been plenty of male PBA champs who weren't super versatile ... guys like Butch Soper and Dave Traber, for example, although I've seen dave win on the regional level playing in.
Good point though on auto racing involving more of a team effort and not just the individual. Kelly may have gotten a little help from an Ebonite ball rep, but that was maybe 5% of of the total effort. Nobody but Kelly got up there and pured 10 out of 12 shots in the title match!
Post by: completebowler on January 25, 2010, 07:48:25 AM
quote:
Kelly won. She just flat out competed all week long, made better shots when it counted, and used the LAST BLOCK ( the one everybody says girls will be tired out by) to move past her competitors and into the TV finals.
She threw a double in the tenth under incredible pressure to lock the door on Mika, then threw 10/12 at CB, who EVERYONE says is one of the top bowlers in the world (and only managed a 195 game), for the win on tough conditions.
It ain't golf, or wrestling, or racing, billiards, tiddleywinks, or anything else but bowling.
Have a Professional Bowlers Tour, and let ALL PROFESSIONALS compete there, men and women alike. Sink or swim, live or die, fish or cut bait, but do it on equal terms under equal conditions. And if you can't, you need to go find something else to do that you can do. Some people work at McDonalds because it is what they can do. Not everyone is cut out to be a professional bowler.
I didn't agree with Kelly's manner of qualifying for the T o C, but I don't make the rules. She was there, she bowled the required games, and she flat out won with NO EXCUSES. She's proven it can be done and that the women CAN compete right alongside the men, SO LET THEM!
There is a woman at my home center that wanted to bowl in the mens league, and petitioned to get in, but too many guys didn't want her there, and I think it was because they didn't want to get beat by "a girl". Could this be the same reason women haven't been bowling PBA events? Or could it be that they've been told so many times that they couldn't compete that they've started to believe it?
Well, NO MORE. Kelly did what everyone said couldn't be done. Now open it up and let them all try.
--------------------
Good transactions list in my profile
ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
They can all try Juggs.....just like KK did in '06-'07. Problem is MOST will fail.
At a time when h.s. bowling and COMPETITIVE female bowling is skyrocketing why would you want to handcuff them?
Just because KK won a tournament? Yes she bowled great on very demanding conditions. Yes she has the mental game to post shots on t.v. on Sunday. MOST do not. I think she has the most complete game of all the women stars but to say they should all be relegated to "fish or cut bait" is unfair.
I want to see the sport grow...not have a whole segment (and a growing segment) stifled by saying they have to compete with the men if they want to bowl on that level.
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Post by: JOE FALCO on January 25, 2010, 07:50:28 AM
On edit: Complete .. most MEN cannot!
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J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Edited on 1/25/2010 8:53 AM
Post by: qstick777 on January 25, 2010, 07:54:08 AM
quote:
This is why bowling is laughed at. This would never happen in any other sport.
Why? Because bowling is more about skill than actual brute strength?
We're talking about a sport (or game) in which being able to adapt to the conditions and repeat your shots is more important that how fast and strong you can throw the ball.
In this case, bowling is more comparable to billiards, darts, and shooting (guns, rifles, archery).
This isn't about whether women belong on the football or baseball field, or basketball or tennis court along side men.
Bowling isn't about competing against your opponent - it's about competing against the conditions.
Post by: michelle on January 25, 2010, 08:01:13 AM
quote:
I don''''t think it is a conditioning thing I think there are plenty of women that could get through qualifying easier than some of the guys on tour now.
My thoughts are that MOST of the women are not versatile enough to play all angles necessary in a 64 game qualifier.
My guess is that you would see more of the top women be competitive in the longer format events...remember that the PBA made the bone-headed decision to get away from the longer format that contained the 24-game heads-up match play. Yet that is the format that was used in the PWBA until the demise of the Tour during 2003. And yes, I still prefer THAT format over what the PBA uses in most events...
Edited on 1/25/2010 9:28 AM
Post by: r534me on January 25, 2010, 08:17:24 AM
quote:quote:While I think Danica is horrendously overrated, I also have to defend the physical aspects of auto racing. Drivers these days have finally figured out that it's in their best interest to actually be in good shape, because 1) it requires strength to wrestle the steering wheel on any car that doesn't have power steering (NASCAR has power steering, but IndyCar/F1/etc. cars don't, and occasionally the power steering does fail on NASCAR cars, don't know off-hand about endurace racing sports cars), 2) the G-forces felt in the corners are physically exhausting (IndyCars and F1 cars corner at over 4 G's), and 3) the heat inside racecars is ridiculous, upwards of 120 degrees at times, which causes you to lose several pounds of weight in sweat in just one race. So yeah, driving a car really fast for hours on end is a lot more difficult than you'd think just from a physical standpoint, not to mention how mentally tiring it is.
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
Just to add to the car racing information:
Lemans endurance series sports cars now have mandated air conditioning(closed cockpit cars) and most if not all have power steering. The drivers are still subjected to high G forces from corning and braking and still need their drink bottles but the temperatures are less now. They aren't as fast as open wheeled cars but they put down some pretty good lap times and depeding on the class can hit 220MPH on the longest stretches (Mulsanne) which is 2KM before the two chicanes.
As far as KK, I remember hearing on TV that she always could hit the pocket but didn't have the power to kick out the corner like the men. It appears that she found that power or pattern this week to make it all come together. Good showing.
Post by: Dan Belcher on January 25, 2010, 08:46:05 AM
quote:And sadly they are much slower than they had the potential to be back in the 80s when the rules were much more open, and the Porsche 962 et al were just absolute <i>beasts</i> of cars. Not to mention the Mulsanne section at Le Mans used to not have chicanes and 250mph was possible. But now we're just getting off-topic.quote:quote:While I think Danica is horrendously overrated, I also have to defend the physical aspects of auto racing. Drivers these days have finally figured out that it's in their best interest to actually be in good shape, because 1) it requires strength to wrestle the steering wheel on any car that doesn't have power steering (NASCAR has power steering, but IndyCar/F1/etc. cars don't, and occasionally the power steering does fail on NASCAR cars, don't know off-hand about endurace racing sports cars), 2) the G-forces felt in the corners are physically exhausting (IndyCars and F1 cars corner at over 4 G's), and 3) the heat inside racecars is ridiculous, upwards of 120 degrees at times, which causes you to lose several pounds of weight in sweat in just one race. So yeah, driving a car really fast for hours on end is a lot more difficult than you'd think just from a physical standpoint, not to mention how mentally tiring it is.
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
Just to add to the car racing information:
Lemans endurance series sports cars now have mandated air conditioning(closed cockpit cars) and most if not all have power steering. The drivers are still subjected to high G forces from corning and braking and still need their drink bottles but the temperatures are less now. They aren't as fast as open wheeled cars but they put down some pretty good lap times and depeding on the class can hit 220MPH on the longest stretches (Mulsanne) which is 2KM before the two chicanes.
Post by: Juggernaut on January 25, 2010, 08:59:40 AM
quote:
They can all try Juggs.....just like KK did in '06-'07. Problem is MOST will fail.
At a time when h.s. bowling and COMPETITIVE female bowling is skyrocketing why would you want to handcuff them?
I don't. I want to open up a whole world of opportunity to them. I want them to be able to compete with a field of their peers for a chance to win on the most prestigious stage in the world. I want to give them the chance to compete for enough money to actually make it worth their time, effort, and trouble.
quote:
Just because KK won a tournament? Yes she bowled great on very demanding conditions. Yes she has the mental game to post shots on t.v. on Sunday. MOST do not. I think she has the most complete game of all the women stars but to say they should all be relegated to "fish or cut bait" is unfair.
YES, because Kelly WON a tournament. It wasn't given to her, handed to her, or bestowed upon her, she went out and WON IT. If she can, why can't the rest?
Because they're "girls"? What one woman can do, others can learn how to do, even if SOME can't. Let the ones who are able compete, and let those who can't compete find something else to do. It isn't about being "fair" because life isn't "fair". If they can't compete, THEN LET THEM DO SOMETHING ELSE.
I'd love to bowl for a living, but guess what? I'm busy out here "cutting bait" myself, because that's what I'm good enough at to earn a living. Life's tough, deal with it. Not everyone is cut out to be a pro bowler.
quote:
I want to see the sport grow...not have a whole segment (and a growing segment) stifled by saying they have to compete with the men if they want to bowl on that level.
But that IS the level, isn't it? Do they wan't to be true champions, or just "the best girl"? Quit telling them they're inferior and that they can't compete. Stop harboring and nurturing the old thought patterns that say the girls aren't equal opponents and that they "just can't do it" because of their gender. Use women like Kelly, Danica, Ashley, and all that compete toe-to-toe with the guys as examples. Let THEM dream of being truly the BEST IN THE WORLD, not just "the best girl".
--------------------
Good transactions list in my profile
ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
Post by: Krakken on January 25, 2010, 09:41:46 AM
quote:quote:
This is why bowling is laughed at. This would never happen in any other sport.
Why? Because bowling is more about skill than actual brute strength?
We're talking about a sport (or game) in which being able to adapt to the conditions and repeat your shots is more important that how fast and strong you can throw the ball.
In this case, bowling is more comparable to billiards, darts, and shooting (guns, rifles, archery).
This isn't about whether women belong on the football or baseball field, or basketball or tennis court along side men.
Bowling isn't about competing against your opponent - it's about competing against the conditions.
Using this comparison bowling is not a sport, it is a game. I think what Kelly did is great, and she definitely was the best bowler that week, but this does not help the PBA at all. It helps womens bowling, but hurts the PBA vs mainstream sports.
-No way Annika Sorenstam could win a PGA tourney or a major (heck she never made the cut)
-Never see a woman in the NBA ( that isn't about strength it is about stamina)
-Couple that with Tom Smallwood winning in Detroit and most of the non bowling fans look and say, hell how hard is it? You had an auto worker win a pro tournament, and now a woman win a Major Championship.
I know the difference, and so do the rest of the bowling fans, but the PBA needs to draw in more people that don't understand the sport.
This doesn't help the PBA as a whole. Couple that with the low $$$ involved. Really? $40k for winning a major? That is pathetic.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
Post by: michelle on January 25, 2010, 10:12:21 AM
quote:
Using this comparison bowling is not a sport, it is a game. I think what Kelly did is great, and she definitely was the best bowler that week, but this does not help the PBA at all. It helps womens bowling, but hurts the PBA vs mainstream sports.
-No way Annika Sorenstam could win a PGA tourney or a major (heck she never made the cut)
-Never see a woman in the NBA ( that isn't about strength it is about stamina)
PGA and NBA are not really valid comparisons because strength IS an issue in both of those environments. Bowling has a defined length of court and strength is NOT a factor such as you see in golf where it IS a variable that speaks to length of shots or in the NBA where obvious size issues present issues inside the arc.
Let's face it...the basketball comparison even loses on its face given that it is not something that most GUYS could step in and do. Generally speaking, if you don't have the height, you WON'T be competing at the top level of basketball, no matter whether it is the NBA or the WNBA.
Stamina is certainly a factor in bowling. But it IS possible to score without having to overpower the lanes.
Post by: Mike James on January 25, 2010, 10:28:08 AM
Post by: completebowler on January 25, 2010, 10:44:22 AM
However if you are saying dump the womens tour and FORCE them to bowl against the men then I don't.
Just like there is a LPGA so should the women have a bowling association all to themselves. Let them continue to do their thing and if they feel they can jump up a league then cool...go for it. Just like I can jump up from state and regionals.
Your argument of fish or cut bait would apply to the regional tour the same. If your not good enough to bowl PBA then go find something else to do. I don't agree.
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Post by: scotts33 on January 25, 2010, 10:48:41 AM
quote:
However if you are saying dump the womens tour and FORCE them to bowl against the men then I don't.
The ONLY way the Women's PBA tour the 6 stops exists is that you and I the USBC members/USBC Nat'l are paying to the tune and this is just a guess but I bet I am pretty close a cost of $1mil for the prize find and ESPN production costs for the 6 events.
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Scott
Post by: michelle on January 25, 2010, 10:53:59 AM
quote:quote:
However if you are saying dump the womens tour and FORCE them to bowl against the men then I don't.
The ONLY way the Women's PBA tour the 6 stops exists is that you and I the USBC members/USBC Nat'l are paying to the tune and this is just a guess but I bet I am pretty close a cost of $1mil for the prize find and ESPN production costs for the 6 events.
In the archives of the PWBA section on this site, there may be an ancient thread that discussed some of the numbers we were given by the powers that be. Production costs were significant...enough so that it could not be offset by what little came in from entry fees and the half-hearted attempts made by the organization to market the PWBA. Many members felt that a stronger effort would have allowed it to work, but by the time the real depth of the woes was made known, the PWBA had been on life-support for far too long, damaging it irreparably. Once that trust was shattered, good luck ever getting it back...and that scares off potential purchasers unless they can piggyback on a known quantity (ie. the PBA).
Post by: r534me on January 25, 2010, 10:55:39 AM
quote:quote:And sadly they are much slower than they had the potential to be back in the 80s when the rules were much more open, and the Porsche 962 et al were just absolute <i>beasts</i> of cars. Not to mention the Mulsanne section at Le Mans used to not have chicanes and 250mph was possible. But now we're just getting off-topic.quote:quote:While I think Danica is horrendously overrated, I also have to defend the physical aspects of auto racing. Drivers these days have finally figured out that it's in their best interest to actually be in good shape, because 1) it requires strength to wrestle the steering wheel on any car that doesn't have power steering (NASCAR has power steering, but IndyCar/F1/etc. cars don't, and occasionally the power steering does fail on NASCAR cars, don't know off-hand about endurace racing sports cars), 2) the G-forces felt in the corners are physically exhausting (IndyCars and F1 cars corner at over 4 G's), and 3) the heat inside racecars is ridiculous, upwards of 120 degrees at times, which causes you to lose several pounds of weight in sweat in just one race. So yeah, driving a car really fast for hours on end is a lot more difficult than you'd think just from a physical standpoint, not to mention how mentally tiring it is.
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
Just to add to the car racing information:
Lemans endurance series sports cars now have mandated air conditioning(closed cockpit cars) and most if not all have power steering. The drivers are still subjected to high G forces from corning and braking and still need their drink bottles but the temperatures are less now. They aren't as fast as open wheeled cars but they put down some pretty good lap times and depeding on the class can hit 220MPH on the longest stretches (Mulsanne) which is 2KM before the two chicanes.
Let's not forgot about the 1000HP can am cars existed. I believe the 917 was the original beast and has the record for most race miles. The 956/962 became obsolete due to the seating position of the drivers. I believe their legs had to be behind the wheels and that's what cause them to be obsolete. I was thinking 220mph in racing competition and not qualifying going through the Mulsanne straight. Are their examples of them hitting 250 in race trim?
Anyway, I am off topic as well now.
That's twice in a thread.
Post by: FBM357 on January 25, 2010, 11:23:21 AM
quote:quote:
I guess drag racing is not a sport and you have never heard of Shirley Muldowny.
Or Ashley Force.
or Angelle Sampey (NHRA Pro-Stock Motorcycle)
Post by: Krakken on January 25, 2010, 11:42:14 AM
quote:
PGA and NBA are not really valid comparisons because strength IS an issue in both of those environments. Bowling has a defined length of court and strength is NOT a factor such as you see in golf where it IS a variable that speaks to length of shots or in the NBA where obvious size issues present issues inside the arc.
Let's face it...the basketball comparison even loses on its face given that it is not something that most GUYS could step in and do. Generally speaking, if you don't have the height, you WON'T be competing at the top level of basketball, no matter whether it is the NBA or the WNBA.
Stamina is certainly a factor in bowling. But it IS possible to score without having to overpower the lanes.
The NBA has a defined length of court, and most guys couldn't step in and compete against the PBA bowlers either.
All winning on the PGA tour is not about strength, though it does help. Corey Pavin has won multiple times and he is 5'9" 160lbs, Mike Weir is 5'8" tall and around 160. Michelle Wie is bigger than both and probably stronger and she can't make the cut.
While I applaud Kelly and her skills, and she certainly is one of the best bowlers in the country, this didn't help the PBA, it hurt the PBA in the eyes of mainstream america. It hopefully helped womens bowling though.
That is what many of the fans want to think of bowling as, a sport. It in fact isn't a sport. It is a game. Like billiards, poker and darts.
When an amateur can win the world series of poker, the pro's lose out because mainstream people say, heck it is easy even an amateur can win.
That is what the PBA faces with Tom Smallwood and Kelly Kulik winning. Bowlers know how difficult what they accomplished is, but mainstream america sees is as a joke. As evidenced by the way ESPN was poking fun at the PBA last night.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
Post by: Juggernaut on January 25, 2010, 11:46:49 AM
quote:
Juggs I think we may agree more than we realize. If you are simply saying let them compete then I'm all for it. Go through tour trials and see what happens.
However if you are saying dump the womens tour and FORCE them to bowl against the men then I don't.
Then it is more likely that we disagree. The mens tour is struggling, and the womens tour already bombed out. The womens events this year were funded by the USBC (NOT the PBA or LPBA) through the PBA. If a tour CANNOT be self sufficient, it must either fold, or merge with another partner that can be.
quote:
Just like there is a LPGA so should the women have a bowling association all to themselves. Let them continue to do their thing and if they feel they can jump up a league then cool...go for it. Just like I can jump up from state and regionals.
There is an LPGA because it can be self sufficient. The LPBA died because it couldn't be. If the women want their own tour, then let them find a way to be self sufficient, not a leech on the neck of the mens tour.
And NO, DON"T let them jump back and forth. Else they will only bowl the mens events during their "hot streaks" ( which we all have), then go back down when they cool off. You pay your own way to do regionals, let them pay their way too.
quote:
Your argument of fish or cut bait would apply to the regional tour the same. If your not good enough to bowl PBA then go find something else to do. I don't agree.
The regionals are a part of the PBA, not some seperate entity. If the women aren't good enough for the national tour, let them bowl regionals until they are. Yes, my "fish or cut bait" should apply to the regionals as well. Either you're good enough, or you're not. You pay your money, you take your chances.
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ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
Post by: scotts33 on January 25, 2010, 12:54:35 PM
quote:
There is an LPGA because it can be self sufficient. The LPBA died because it couldn't be. If the women want their own tour, then let them find a way to be self sufficient, not a leech on the neck of the mens tour.
The leaching is done off of the USBC. We as USBC members are underwriting the PBA women's events. Let them pay their own way or invest an equal amount into the PBA men's events. That's my issue with the whole thing.
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Scott
Post by: Wingzero on January 25, 2010, 01:20:21 PM
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www.myspace.com/blkbowler
Post by: Kid Jete on January 25, 2010, 01:32:48 PM
quote:quote:
This is why bowling is laughed at. This would never happen in any other sport.
Let me list a few Ladies who have done quite well vs the men...
Ashley Force-Hood -- drag racing
Danica Patrick - Indy
Shirley Muldowney - first lady of drag racing
Angelle Sampey - Drag racing Bike
Melanie Troxel- Drag Racing
Jean Balukas- Billiards she played in mens billiards tournaments and alot of the men didnt like facing her and i believe won a few
Karen Corr- She''s won a few mens Billiards Tournaments
there are others but no point in naming all of them..
But to say "this is why bowling is laughed at, and that it wouldnt happen in any other sport" is just being narrow minded.
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" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl " http://coolluvr4u1976.bowlspace.com/
For my vids on youtube - search coolluvr4u1976
Edited on 1/24/2010 9:33 PM
I think you missed my point, or took it the wrong way. You listed things that your physical makeup as little to do with. I'm not saying women have inferior motor skills I'm saying they can't compete in sports like football or basketball because they are physically inferior to men. Hence "sports fans" would laugh at a woman beating the men in bowling. You wouldn't agree that a person who knows nothing about bowling and only watches football is laughing his a** off at those "bowling queers" getting beat by a girl?
Post by: Kid Jete on January 25, 2010, 01:34:55 PM
quote:
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
Billiards could perhaps be throw into the equation but it's not quite the physical task that golf, tennis and bowling are. Hand/eye coordination for sure, though.
I know how absolutely draining a PBA tournament can be physically and billiards, darts, poker, etc. don't make those sporting demands on a person.
Agree to disagree ... it's my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I wouldn't equate bowling to golf and tennis.