Author Topic: Is Pete the greatest of all time? (Read 16909 times)

riggs · « **on:** February 27, 2012, 12:07:25 AM »

http://www.11thframe.com/page/blog_id_4869

What do you think?

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tommyboy74 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:24:50 PM »

I think Weber has gone something like 2-8 against WRWJ over the past several years on the shows whenever they have met up. It was mentioned at some point during the past.

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John D Davis · « **Reply #32 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:10:02 AM »

Heres some good questions for you guys... have you ever seen Pete Webber throw it 19-20 Miles an hour up 5 and take his hand out of the ball? Have you ever seen Walter Ray loft the left gutter and play the 6th arrow??? Walter Ray is the """"""ONLY""""""" one that has mastered hand releases in his touring span. There is a few other ones like Chris Barnes that has devolped many releases as well, and the list could go on for that matter. But I have watched alot of the tour and you will never see Pete Webber play the angles that Walter can in the back part of the lane. Norm Duke of course will be second on the list of the greatest bowlers in the game. He too have mastered multiple releases. I have seen Norm and Walter both Wheeling the ball inside the 6th arrow just like some of the other players like Webber,Fagan,so on.

NOTE: If bowling ball technology hadn't developedso much in the past 5-7 years, Walter Ray probably would have 20-30 more titles than he does today. That has been the only thing keeping Walter Ray from not winning more today, and you can take that one to the bank..............

Sunshine n Lollipops · « **Reply #33 on:** February 28, 2012, 05:20:52 AM »

It really depends if you value total victories more than number of majors. I always thought that PDW was a total tool that got a special exemption to bowl on Tour before he was eighteen because of who his Dad was. Substance abuser who wasted some prime years of his career being high all the time. But, he was able to get his life together, turn it around, and this guy thinks he might be the best of all time. If you haven't seen it, rent A League of Ordinary Gentlemen and see how PDW helped save the PBA (by their design) as well as some honest behind the scenes look at him off the lanes where he shows he's no different than anybody's next door neighbor.

To Mr. Davis: Your Top Two bowlers were two of the pros most aided by the advent of reactive resin balls. PDW never needed resin to be able to hook the lane and carry the ten pin out.

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Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #34 on:** February 28, 2012, 05:50:20 AM »

John, I have to agree with S&L on this one; WRW was a good, above average pro in the mid-late 80's. As soon as resin balls were widely introduced, his career took off. They allowed straight players like him and Duke to rise to the lofty stature they now enjoy. I don't mean to take anything away from WRW, but PDW was Hall of Fame caliber with plastic, urethane and resin.

Stan · « **Reply #35 on:** February 28, 2012, 06:54:52 AM »

John, I tend to disagree.

I think the new and more powerful equipment has helped Walter. If you remember, when these "hook in the box" balls first came out, all the guys with the stronger releases had to re-create themselves. It took Weber awhile to get back on track where Walter just took off.

I don not have the numbers, but I am sure someone does, but it would be interesting to see to total of titles for PDW and Walter pre resin days vs current days.

riggs · « **Reply #36 on:** February 28, 2012, 07:03:13 AM »

I believe numbers are this:

Pre-resin, Walter Ray won 6 titles in 8 years and then resin on he won 41 titles in 17 years.

Pre-resin, Weber had 18 titles in 13 years and then resin on he has 18 titles in 18 years.

And Weber HAS WON firing it hard up the outside. Not many times but it's a complete lie to say that he doesn't have a huge amount of versatility in his physical game.

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stopncrank · « **Reply #37 on:** February 28, 2012, 07:23:46 AM »

Just a few years ago on tv, Pete went from playing inside of 20 to playing the ditch between commercial breaks and won the tournament. Anybody that says Pete can't play out is just as crazy as folks who say WRW cant play in.

I could also come back and say, well how many titles has WRW won playing left of 10? You dont get to where either one of them are without being able to play anywhere.

riggs wrote on 2/28/2012 8:03 AM:
I believe numbers are this:

Pre-resin, Walter Ray won 6 titles in 8 years and then resin on he won 41 titles in 17 years.

Pre-resin, Weber had 18 titles in 13 years and then resin on he has 18 titles in 18 years.

And Weber HAS WON firing it hard up the outside. Not many times but it's a complete lie to say that he doesn't have a huge amount of versatility in his physical game.

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tburky · « **Reply #38 on:** February 28, 2012, 08:11:32 AM »

Have to disagree with you on this one. During urethane weber played up 5 and was pretty good at it. In fact I have seen him play up 5 with resin and speed and was good at it. Weber is best at slow hooking it when the opportunity arises.

John D Davis wrote on 2/28/2012 3:10 AM: Heres some good questions for you guys... have you ever seen Pete Webber throw it 19-20 Miles an hour up 5 and take his hand out of the ball? Have you ever seen Walter Ray loft the left gutter and play the 6th arrow??? Walter Ray is the """"""ONLY""""""" one that has mastered hand releases in his touring span. There is a few other ones like Chris Barnes that has devolped many releases as well, and the list could go on for that matter. But I have watched alot of the tour and you will never see Pete Webber play the angles that Walter can in the back part of the lane. Norm Duke of course will be second on the list of the greatest bowlers in the game. He too have mastered multiple releases. I have seen Norm and Walter both Wheeling the ball inside the 6th arrow just like some of the other players like Webber,Fagan,so on.

NOTE: If bowling ball technology hadn't developedso much in the past 5-7 years, Walter Ray probably would have 20-30 more titles than he does today. That has been the only thing keeping Walter Ray from not winning more today, and you can take that one to the bank..............

230-n-up-or-bust · « **Reply #39 on:** February 28, 2012, 08:32:23 AM »

Didn't PDW play close to the gutter when Del Ballard, Jr. threw his last ball in the ditch?

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rb27 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 28, 2012, 09:16:11 AM »

Watched PDW play up the ditch with a yellow dot back in '92 at a PBA stop in Detroit.

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greenefam · « **Reply #41 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:51:44 PM »

This is an interesting debate. I am not really a huge Pete Weber fan but my eyes were opened to his versatility in what I consider my favorite championship match of the past 10 years, the 2004 Medford Open. The match was Pete against Tommy Delutz on a broken down Shark Pattern. Pete had just barely gotten through his previous match where he couldn't get his ball to tilt up correctly on the right lane. Against Delutz Pete ended up way inside on the left lane and straight up the 8 board on the right lane for a 265. Compare Pete against others for best of all time if you'd like, but he's got all the tools and the hand releases. His inside loop shot is just his A game, that's all.

northface28 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 28, 2012, 03:49:38 PM »

John D Davis wrote on 2/28/2012 3:10 AM: Heres some good questions for you guys... have you ever seen Pete Webber throw it 19-20 Miles an hour up 5 and take his hand out of the ball? Have you ever seen Walter Ray loft the left gutter and play the 6th arrow??? Walter Ray is the """"""ONLY""""""" one that has mastered hand releases in his touring span. There is a few other ones like Chris Barnes that has devolped many releases as well, and the list could go on for that matter. But I have watched alot of the tour and you will never see Pete Webber play the angles that Walter can in the back part of the lane. Norm Duke of course will be second on the list of the greatest bowlers in the game. He too have mastered multiple releases. I have seen Norm and Walter both Wheeling the ball inside the 6th arrow just like some of the other players like Webber,Fagan,so on.

NOTE: If bowling ball technology hadn't developedso much in the past 5-7 years, Walter Ray probably would have 20-30 more titles than he does today. That has been the only thing keeping Walter Ray from not winning more today, and you can take that one to the bank..............

This, without question, is the dumbest thing ive ever read on this site.

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John D Davis · « **Reply #43 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:51:42 PM »

That was so great replies guys... I stand once more corrected on my thoughts. I guess Pete may be one of the best players the tour has had. Thanks for some of you guys keeping it a discussion and not basically telling me Im stupid. I never really knew the number of titles the people had had and what years, so that really was helpful. John

morpheus · « **Reply #44 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:56:36 PM »

Thank you riggs for stating the obvious...without reactives WRW maybe wins 15 titles and retires in the 90's. Before the Crush/R was released in 1991, WRW had won exactly one title in the previous five years and I think he won seven in 1991...he must have really practiced before the tour started. By the way, how many athletes in any sport are considered very good and then become the undisputed greatest of all time in their respective sport during the second half of their career? I'll give you a hint...NONE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY. That would be like Andy Roddick turning into Roger Federer next year...pretty sure Roger's records are safe because there's nothing radically changing the sport in his favor anytime soon. I'm not a fan but Pete is the most physically gifted player in the history of the game.

Edited by morpheus on 2/28/2012 at 5:57 PM

Walking E · « **Reply #45 on:** February 28, 2012, 06:14:59 PM »

If reactive resin had never been developed, Couch would have 30 titles, Robert Smith would probably have 25 (if his back allowed him), and Bob Vespi would probably have 20 of his own. :-)

Author Topic: Is Pete the greatest of all time? (Read 16909 times)

riggs

Is Pete the greatest of all time?

tommyboy74

Re: Is Pete the greatest of all time?

John D Davis

Re: Is Pete the greatest of all time?

Sunshine n Lollipops

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Cobalt Bomb

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Stan

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riggs

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stopncrank

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tburky

Re: Is Pete the greatest of all time?

230-n-up-or-bust

Re: Is Pete the greatest of all time?

rb27

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greenefam

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northface28

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John D Davis

Re: Is Pete the greatest of all time?

morpheus

Re: Is Pete the greatest of all time?

Walking E

Re: Is Pete the greatest of all time?