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Author Topic: My thoughts on this season  (Read 12093 times)

Current Exempt

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My thoughts on this season
« on: March 31, 2008, 03:55:46 AM »
I want to thank everyone who has sent me a private message about my status and situation.  I did finish out the year fairly strong and did make the cut line for next season.  Now, the pros and cons.  I do enjoy being one of the elite in this country.  I enjoy the opportunity to make a telecast every week with a guaranteed paycheck but at what expense?  If you had asked me before the season started if I could take Deanery's season and not bowl I would have said yes!  He made 3 shows and finished top 20 in points and cashed every tournament.  That's some season,right?  Beating out 2/3's of the field on avgas. every week.  Bowling 20 tournaments and being on TV every the week.  Awesome bowling I think!  His return?  $51,000!  He put in about $28,000.  Boatman is another who made two shows and cashed every tournament, $39,000!  He put in $28,000.  This is just sad.  I don't know one regional player who wouldn't kill to have 1 of those 2 seasons.  So I'm still undecided about next year.  Only 10 bowlers eclipsed the $100,000 mark with $25,000-$30,000 invested.  Just not a good return for being the best this sport has to offer.  Most of us 30-39 point guys just lost another year in any career outside of bowling for basically minimum wage.  Did we the pa send the right message with Duke winning the money title when about 85% of his winnings came from two tournaments?  I don't know.  I do recall in the 80's when Aulby,Ballard,Voss were in the $200,000's to win the money title.  Did we jump back 20 years with the way things our now?  At least in the early 90's you had a chance for $25,000 incentive checks.  I guess is what I'm trying to say is I don't know why every other sport can advance financially and we go back.  Sorry for the ranting but these are just my feelings.  I do enjoy reading all the e mails and messages sent to me as well as the reply's to my post's.  Thanks again to everyone for their support.
I do not want to give out my name yet because I'm still undecided and wanted to keep this off any pba message board.

 

Monster Pike

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2008, 10:06:14 AM »
The Open just paid the winner $100,000, why can't they get more of these payouts throughout the year?  Maybe they need some better marketing reps or something to try & get some more corporate sponsors.
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NicholasE

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2008, 10:14:50 AM »
quote:
Someone front me the $8 Billion so I can get started


Do you take paypal??
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renoatpikeville

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2008, 10:23:49 AM »
quote:
I think the pba is a vicious cycle... They won't put more money in because noone is watching but i think no one watches because there is not much money...  I play poker alot and i think the fact it has taken off so much is because the prize money is so insane...  People are winning or losing millions on the turn of a card that is exciting to see...  Did u ever think people would love to watch poker on tv???  I think if they had a 500,000 dollar tourney or a million they could advertise that and people would watch...  They probably need a few tourneys in the 100k region and then like one or two a year for 1 million or 500k... That would boost the rating i believe...


They tried the 1 Million dollar tournament here in Reno a few years ago with no luck...tournament never started.

renoatpikeville

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2008, 10:37:50 AM »
quote:
The Open just paid the winner $100,000, why can't they get more of these payouts throughout the year?  Maybe they need some better marketing reps or something to try & get some more corporate sponsors.
--------------------
"The last time I saw a face like that, it had a hook in it's mouth." Rodney Dangerfield


Just pondering a thought...
This past PBA tournament was an open field tournament, anyone could enter. 460+ guys at $500 a pop. That alone is $230,000 in entry alone. (dont know if exempt bowlers had to pay but that is only 40 of them, right?) Plus sponsers' funding. Anyways...at a normal PBA stop all exempt bowlers can bowl plus a few that qualify from the rabbit squad, sometimes 10. Those rabbit squads are $400 or so. 80-100+ guys try those...$32,000-$40,000. Plus there may be monies defered to year ending events. Also, the owners' of the PBA have to make their money. All in all I think with those estimated numbers you can see the difference in prize fund.

If anyone else would like to elaborate with some more accurate numbers please do...

Pinbuster

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2008, 11:01:29 AM »
TQR entries are $300.

Each place getting into the main tournament pays the extra $200 but get at least the $1800 minimum.

Depending on number of entries another 10 to 15 TQR cash as well.

So in your scenario 10 * 1800 is $18,000 out plus another 7 to 10K in extra places.

The TQR's don't make them a lot of money.

Exempt all pay entry fees to each event even the Open and Masters and no sure check.

You are not going to get 400+ entries each week at $500 a pop even if the opened it up. At most you would get 120 with only a 1 in 3 chance of cashing against the top pro's.

Mike Austin

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2008, 12:24:13 PM »
quote:
The ONLY way the PBA will make it is if ESPN buys out PBA. It could happen!!


As stated before, PBA needs some obscenely rich billionaire to buy them,.... oh wait, the PBA owners ARE OBSCENELY RICH BILLIONAIRES, from Microsoft.  They just don't have the pull through out the corporate world like they thought they had.  I think the ex head dude Steve Miller got the new owners off on the wrong foot and stepped on too many toes.......

Where's Ryan Shafer when we need him, Jiffy Jeff Carter probably knows the details too.
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sdbowler

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2008, 12:42:13 PM »
quote:
quote:
The ONLY way the PBA will make it is if ESPN buys out PBA. It could happen!!


As stated before, PBA needs some obscenely rich billionaire to buy them,.... oh wait, the PBA owners ARE OBSCENELY RICH BILLIONAIRES, from Microsoft.  They just don't have the pull through out the corporate world like they thought they had.  I think the ex head dude Steve Miller got the new owners off on the wrong foot and stepped on too many toes.......

Where's Ryan Shafer when we need him, Jiffy Jeff Carter probably knows the details too.
--------------------
Check out Tony's Journals - they are FREE!!
http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=67&leagueid=2054





Maybe they need to go ask Mr Gates for some cash.
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Kyle

Jeff Carter

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2008, 02:33:02 PM »
Heres the deal guys....some of this is true fact and some of it is my opinion based on fact. Too many people speculate that they know whats going on, then make their reccommendations as to what SHOULD happen. I'll be the first to say that if you can think of it, so has somebody else. Just because it may seem like common sense, there is always something behind the scenes that hold the idea back....things that you may not know about.

First of all, the TV Show / ESPN :
ESPN does have a financial investment in the PBA Tour. Therefore, we are sort of at their mercy. Yes we do pay rights fees to be on ESPN, that much is true and quite honestly sucks. We have at least 1 or 2 more years on the current contract, so those of you that say we should just leave ESPN....it doesnt workt that way. If we could ever prove our worth to the execs at ESPN, they will gladly pay us the rights fees to our shows. This is also why we cant do any "fancy" graphics, re-plays, slo-motion and other technical special effects. We just dont have the money to put into production. As for the time slot on Sundays...thats all ESPNs call. We are the only sport that can consistently draw at least a .7 rating against the NFL, so in their eyes it would be foolish to put us somewhere that they dont feel the need to gain viewers. Unfortunatley for us, that limits our viewership. They tried the sunday night prime-time slot in Baltimore as a test run so we'll see what happens from there. As for the announcers....the play by play man is supplied by ESPN and the PBA has no say in the matter. For those of you begging for Marshall, Bo Burton, or whoever else to be in the booth...its not gonna happen. Like it or not, Rob Stone has created a little bit of a buzz and the "Hambone" has caught on. At least he has brought a little excitment to the shows. I liked Dave Ryan as a person and i thought he was very professional in the pre-show meeting, but i dont think he ever took this job seriously. Next up is the camera crews and production people. Winnercom is the company that we use for Sponsorship/Marketing and TV Production. This year we had a whole new production crew and there were some bumps in the road. We lost a crew that had been doing our shows for a number of years, and they had gotten very good at their jobs. I have a feeling that this new group will do the same in time.

Sponsorship / Marketing:
Its my opinion that the PBA needs to get away from outside marketing firms and hire our own people to do the job. Winnercom represents several sports ( Bassmasters, Bullriding, etc... ) and when they approach a Sponsor, they are represented all of their entities at one time, not just bowling. We need people selling the PBA and the PBA only....people that care about the sport and are out there working for us. Im sure Winnercom has approached every company you can think of, but its time to revamp the packages and hit them again. We need aggressive people with passion !!! Im not sure what will happen with Dennys, but we certainly need companies like them to support them, but we also need our fans to truly support our sponsors ( not continuously bash them on message boards....that means the commercials as well ). Unfortunatley, the current administration was left with a lot of debt built up by the infamous Steve Miller. Steve had a dream of where the PBA should be and had no problem spending millions to try to make that dream come true. The bad part is that his arrogance just about sunk us. Then he bolted as soon as the ship started going down. I dont blame the owners for stopping the endless cash flow, just because the have millions on top of millions that doesnt mean that they owe any of that to us. Its up to us as an organization to carry our own weight. For those of you that are wondering why the Bowling Manufacturers dont step up and put more money in....first of all, they arent making enough money these days to invest it back into the tour. Second, the TV shows just dont sell product like they used to. Third, the PBA already has the manufacturers held hostage by charging extremely high product registration fees...so the manufacturers feel they've already invested enough.

Its going to take a collective effort on everybodys part to pull us out of this...the USBC, the BPAA, the fans, the players, the owners, etc... Theres been talk about the USBC rasing dues to help support the Tours and as a card carrying member of the USBC i'm all for it, to a certain extent. I think that a minor dues increase, coupled with a fee on lane beds instituted by the BPAA would help generate enough income to help the Tours get back on their feet. The key is that the league bowlers and the bowling centers need to receive something in return for their investments. Im not sure what that is, but i'm sure it could be figured out. Another way to help grow the PBA is through the Regional program and the PBA experience leagues. If marketed properly, those leagues could be a tremendous boost....but without proper education they will fail miserably.

I could go on and on and on about this topic, but talking about it isnt going to do any good. Something needs to be done and done soon. There will always be Professional Bowling, but in what shape and form we have no idea. I'd like to think that things can turn around soon, but right now there isnt much hope on the horizon. I know i've lost my fire to compete on Tour right now. The injury layoff really made me realize how much i enjoy life at home with my kids, stability and my coaching "job". I cant even bring myself to practice right now because i just dont see the light at the end of the tunnel. Normally i would be looking forward to the Regional schedule, but since the regions just got Brunswick lane machines i think we're in for a long summer ( thats another story for another day ). So i guess i'll spend my summer coaching, bowling a little here and there, and hoping that the fire comes back sometime before October. I can tell you that i've never seen moral this low on Tour. It just doesnt look or seem like theres much enjoyment in this profession anymore. Hopefully times will change
--------------------
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Pinbuster

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2008, 02:43:17 PM »
Thanks for the insight Jeff.

Rev_O

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2008, 03:02:20 PM »
Thanks once again Jeff for allowing us to see what's behind the curtain. Jeff IS one of the TRUE professionals in bowling. To read that he has lost his drive to compete is very sad. I hope you get that fire back Jeff. I know how you feel in a way. I took the entire season off, never been happier. Take care!
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DP3

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2008, 03:09:20 PM »
It is very possible for the tour to "survive" in it's current state.  It is however up to us, the fans and bowlers to change the way we look at the tour, and up to some of the players to change their perception of the tour.  I don't see/understand how any tour player outside of the top ten in money leaders are able to take the tour seriously as their only source of full time income.  Bowling as a business in every aspect is losing money.  From the ball companies, the distributors, the pro shops, and the professionals themselves as well.  It is time to step out of the realm of traditionalism and change the way we sell ourselves.  

Eventually the mainstays on tour that we are accustomed to seeing are going to have to back out.  There's no way that you can maintain a family on 20k or less a year profit.  You can barely maintain your own personal life on 20k a year if you're a single taxpayer in America.  With this the tour is going to have to become "younger".  Every TQR you see about 50-60 guys age 20-29 with the dream of being a professional bowler.  These seem like the guys with the most desire out of anyone of the week.  I will continue to say that during the season, there's no more exciting day to watch live than Wednesday at the "Rabbit Squad".  It's apparent the mainstays on the tour are becoming jaded, as well they should be.  The game is progressing in every aspect except for the money.  

The only people that can even afford to live on an exempt tour average wage would be the younger single males with no family to support or outstanding living expenses.  When you take a current superstar who already has: a half a million dollar home, 3 cars, 2 kids, and a wife, who was used to the big paychecks back in the day, cheap travel expeneses, and weekly incentive checks that rival the same money as a current 2nd place check then tell them they have to maintain that lifestyle on $50,000 before expenses are taken out how can they bowl with the same drive that was once there and have the same respect for their profession?  It's impossible, and it really comes across on TV and at live events.  The morale just isn't the same and if you've been there live you can feel it.

Imagine being the best at whatever your occupation currently is and being ranked worldwide in the top 40 at your profession.  Would you be satisfied with salary you are currently making?  No.  Now take a 40k paycut on top of that, which will definately put you in the red.  How can you go into work everyday with the same desire and passion as you did when you first started and had that hunger?  If 20-25 of the top names of the tour were to leave this season and bring that number of spots in through the TQR and Tour Trials, then that may re-spark interest in the tour, or it could drive some of the traditionalists away who can't picture a tour without a Norm Duke, Chris Barnes, Walter Ray, or Doug Kent.  It's a double edged sword.  Our "sport" is the only sport where a step towards progression is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.  It's going to take alot more than alot of money to fix it.  Someone could dump 10 billion into the tour tomorrow and it wouldn't change a thing if a new direction wasn't clarly followed and focused upon.  It's going to take a new sharp mind, with a clear vision, and a long term detailed plan. (Which it appears the Microsoft execs didn't have, their vision of the tour was a few steps that you could write on the back of a business card.)

I have a long list of really good ideas that I've talked over with many of my peers, more of them are focused more in the presentation and production of the actual show though.  It's going to be very hard for what we have in the PBA Tour to make a radical change that will preserve it for the next generation of superstars.  For one, the good ole' boy buddy buddy network/glass ceiling must be broken.  It's apparent that all of the people that have been running the grand stage for the past 15 years are not progressing things any better.  The PBA can have a great resurgence, it's just going to have to be sparked by a great mind that's in the know with the right people for it to happen.  As sad as it is to say, the few of us on here talking about it hold no weight in the people's minds that have all the power when it comes to making something happen.  Kinda feels like politics
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Edited on 4/1/2008 3:11 PM

JessN16

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2008, 03:21:17 PM »
quote:
Heres the deal guys....some of this is true fact and some of it is my opinion based on fact. Too many people speculate that they know whats going on, then make their reccommendations as to what SHOULD happen. I'll be the first to say that if you can think of it, so has somebody else. Just because it may seem like common sense, there is always something behind the scenes that hold the idea back....things that you may not know about.

First of all, the TV Show / ESPN :
ESPN does have a financial investment in the PBA Tour. Therefore, we are sort of at their mercy. Yes we do pay rights fees to be on ESPN, that much is true and quite honestly sucks. We have at least 1 or 2 more years on the current contract, so those of you that say we should just leave ESPN....it doesnt workt that way. If we could ever prove our worth to the execs at ESPN, they will gladly pay us the rights fees to our shows. This is also why we cant do any "fancy" graphics, re-plays, slo-motion and other technical special effects. We just dont have the money to put into production. As for the time slot on Sundays...thats all ESPNs call. We are the only sport that can consistently draw at least a .7 rating against the NFL, so in their eyes it would be foolish to put us somewhere that they dont feel the need to gain viewers. Unfortunatley for us, that limits our viewership. They tried the sunday night prime-time slot in Baltimore as a test run so we'll see what happens from there. As for the announcers....the play by play man is supplied by ESPN and the PBA has no say in the matter. For those of you begging for Marshall, Bo Burton, or whoever else to be in the booth...its not gonna happen. Like it or not, Rob Stone has created a little bit of a buzz and the "Hambone" has caught on. At least he has brought a little excitment to the shows. I liked Dave Ryan as a person and i thought he was very professional in the pre-show meeting, but i dont think he ever took this job seriously. Next up is the camera crews and production people. Winnercom is the company that we use for Sponsorship/Marketing and TV Production. This year we had a whole new production crew and there were some bumps in the road. We lost a crew that had been doing our shows for a number of years, and they had gotten very good at their jobs. I have a feeling that this new group will do the same in time.

Sponsorship / Marketing:
Its my opinion that the PBA needs to get away from outside marketing firms and hire our own people to do the job. Winnercom represents several sports ( Bassmasters, Bullriding, etc... ) and when they approach a Sponsor, they are represented all of their entities at one time, not just bowling. We need people selling the PBA and the PBA only....people that care about the sport and are out there working for us. Im sure Winnercom has approached every company you can think of, but its time to revamp the packages and hit them again. We need aggressive people with passion !!! Im not sure what will happen with Dennys, but we certainly need companies like them to support them, but we also need our fans to truly support our sponsors ( not continuously bash them on message boards....that means the commercials as well ). Unfortunatley, the current administration was left with a lot of debt built up by the infamous Steve Miller. Steve had a dream of where the PBA should be and had no problem spending millions to try to make that dream come true. The bad part is that his arrogance just about sunk us. Then he bolted as soon as the ship started going down. I dont blame the owners for stopping the endless cash flow, just because the have millions on top of millions that doesnt mean that they owe any of that to us. Its up to us as an organization to carry our own weight. For those of you that are wondering why the Bowling Manufacturers dont step up and put more money in....first of all, they arent making enough money these days to invest it back into the tour. Second, the TV shows just dont sell product like they used to. Third, the PBA already has the manufacturers held hostage by charging extremely high product registration fees...so the manufacturers feel they've already invested enough.

Its going to take a collective effort on everybodys part to pull us out of this...the USBC, the BPAA, the fans, the players, the owners, etc... Theres been talk about the USBC rasing dues to help support the Tours and as a card carrying member of the USBC i'm all for it, to a certain extent. I think that a minor dues increase, coupled with a fee on lane beds instituted by the BPAA would help generate enough income to help the Tours get back on their feet. The key is that the league bowlers and the bowling centers need to receive something in return for their investments. Im not sure what that is, but i'm sure it could be figured out. Another way to help grow the PBA is through the Regional program and the PBA experience leagues. If marketed properly, those leagues could be a tremendous boost....but without proper education they will fail miserably.

I could go on and on and on about this topic, but talking about it isnt going to do any good. Something needs to be done and done soon. There will always be Professional Bowling, but in what shape and form we have no idea. I'd like to think that things can turn around soon, but right now there isnt much hope on the horizon. I know i've lost my fire to compete on Tour right now. The injury layoff really made me realize how much i enjoy life at home with my kids, stability and my coaching "job". I cant even bring myself to practice right now because i just dont see the light at the end of the tunnel. Normally i would be looking forward to the Regional schedule, but since the regions just got Brunswick lane machines i think we're in for a long summer ( thats another story for another day ). So i guess i'll spend my summer coaching, bowling a little here and there, and hoping that the fire comes back sometime before October. I can tell you that i've never seen moral this low on Tour. It just doesnt look or seem like theres much enjoyment in this profession anymore. Hopefully times will change
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295


I think the best way I can sum this post up is to say I wish we could laugh it off as an April Fool's joke. But we can't.

Jess

twister

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2008, 03:23:12 PM »
I've always thought this should be expanded globally, for example, all you have to do is produce a "World Series of Bowling" type tournament with higher entry fees which allow anyone in the world to bowl it. If you can get 7-8000 people to fork out $10K to play a poker tournament, why not bowling?
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Jeff Carter

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2008, 04:20:21 PM »
Rapture -
Im not really sure about that....but what i can tell you is this : There are a lot of different "classifications" of amateurs. I've got my opinions on the US Open and some of those probably wouldn't be popular to most people, but its the gods honest truth.

I know i'm opening myself up to more criticsm here but i really think there should be stricter rules or a qualification process to be able to compete at the Majors. For example, i was 2 pair away from a guy that averaged 138 for the first 2 days. This guy got more 3 counts than 9 counts. Watching him, you could tell that his talent level was 170-180 MAX !!! But lets forget about his score, lets examine how he acted. Yes he had a little problem with the skipping procedure ( and for those of you that will say "the premadonna pros and their double jump" rules are all jerks...you should realize that you're bowling in a professional event and if you dont know the rules then you shouldnt enter ), but the biggest problem was the other distractions such as : slapping off brooklyn after brooklyn, stomping his foot after yet another 3 off the right, screaming into his shirt after missing his 4th single pin in a row, etc.... Yes i'm using this guy as an example, but when you watch this for 18 games it wears on you mentally. I was lucky to have 3 guys on my pair that took their turn, did their best and didnt cause any problems for those around them...but there were plenty of guys that certainly didnt do that. There needs to be a certain level of etiquette when bowling a tournament like the US Open ( and yes that also applies to the professionals ), but to many amateurs go into the event and treat it like league night. I wont go into how the amateurs tear up the pattern because on that junk, you cant really tear it up much more than it already is...so i wont blame them for the lane conditions at all. My only gripe is the constant distractions that go on around you all the time. I really hate to say it but it makes concentrating almost impossible, and when your income and job rely on your performance you cant afford that.

Now before you bash me, consider this....there are many levels of amateur and if you're honest with yourself you will know where you fit in. If you're that bowler that can compete at a high level on house patterns, with a good physical game and an understanding of how the sport should be played then i dont care if you go -400. But if you're there to get photos, autographs and to be able to go home and tell your friends that you bowled the US Open and crossed with Parker Bohn, then thats where the line should be drawn. I know everybody has a right to pay their entry fee and bowl, and i'll be the first to admit that we need the money....but think about this: whats gonna happen when you take a guy fighting for his job, exemption and livlihood and pair him up with a guy that booked 184 in league last year and is only there because he wanted to bowl the US Open. I mean if you dont think you have a chance at all, but bowl anyway...why bother ? I respect anybody and everybody for trying their best, but i love the game of golf but i'm certainly not going to drive to Augusta on Thursday and tee it up against Tiger. First of all, they flat out wont let me because im not good enough. On the PGA tour, if you record a high enough score they basically tell you goodbye and dont come back.

I guess my point is all amateurs shouldnt take offense to these comments because unfortunatley you are all lumped into one big category. But there are some people that really should invest that $500.00 in coaching instead of bowling the US Open. Now......bash away
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295

Fatboy8

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Re: My thoughts on this season
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2008, 04:26:53 PM »
Jeff, Current Exempt, and anyone else that's on Tour and a memmber here: Good luck to you guys out there. It's gotta be tough, and it is a shame the game hasn't advanced like other have. You are out there bustin' azz every week, doing a job you love, and can't hardly make enough to get by.

It takes guts and will to grind it out, and try to make the best of things, and I wish you guys the best. Keep your heads up.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer