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Author Topic: PBA Badger  (Read 18981 times)

avabob

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PBA Badger
« on: June 18, 2014, 03:50:19 PM »
Anyone watch the Badger show last night?  Let me first state that this not a slam on the young two hander who finished second.  I think the kid made a tremendous effort, and there aren't many guys who could execute they way he did while lofting as far down the lane. Having said that, this strategy brings up a huge problem that I would not like to deal with as a proprietor.  Part of the problem lies with being able to dull up the surfaces so much.  I have said for several years that we could deal with part of the lane break down problem if all balls had to be 4000 grit as a final finish.  Best solution would be to outlaw resin balls along with not allowing aggressive surface alterations.   

 

northface28

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 09:57:53 AM »
Burning up the pattern during practice has been around for many years.  If some of you remember, Brian Voss wrote a huge comment complaining about this on the PBA forum years ago.  Bowlers go out there and burn a shot for themselves and sometimes try to ruin the shot for the others bowlers.

Lets face it, the PBA allows this because they do not want to see low scores on TV.  The problem this past weekend is that everyone except O'Neil tried to play the middle of the lane where Valenta burned them up. O'Neil was the smart one and threw a rocket to the pocket with accuracy and won.


"Ruin the shot for other bowlers"? What does this even mean? Its a disturbing thought process.
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avabob

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 09:59:35 AM »
Two real issues here.  Burning up the pattern is one issue.  I know it has been done intentionally and unintentionally for years.  While my solution of requiring balls to be 4000 grit from the factory, and not allow alterations is probably unworkable, something that would defeat the ability of balls to alter the pattern so much and so quickly is needed.  I don't think we can ever put the genie back in the bottle for regular league bowling, but I do foresee the day when there will be further restrictions on balls used on tour, that might filter down to sport league tournaments.

Also, O'Neil was able to exploit the shot the way he did, partly because of the way Valenta played.  By going back to the right he found some good head oil, but he was able to get a good reaction because he was catching the back ends at about the same place the other guys did, which gave him just enough reaction to get some finish and carry playing 14 out to 11.   

The other factor that does not always come into play is the amount of loft being used by Valenta.  As a proprietor I would cringe if people a lot of people started doing this in league or open play. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 10:03:52 AM by avabob »

Jorge300

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 12:38:00 PM »
Why don't we just go back to throwing hard rubber balls?
 
Things have changed, bowling has changed. You can't stop it from happening. Some of you should read "Who Moved my Cheese", and maybe you'd have a new perspective. What you saw here is a direct result of the PBA trying to develop new patterns. They have Badger now, 52 ft....but in order to make it playable, the volume is relatively low. If you remember back to the Wolf telecast, they showed a fresh lane with Wolf and a fresh lane with Badger. The Wolf lane was a much much darker blue color than Badger. You allow any length of practice time on a low volume pattern, even with balls at 4000, you are going to burn up the pattern. As far as Valenta goes.....no one was complaining 10-15 years ago when Robert Smith was doing the same thing. Why complain now? There were many stops where Smith was lofting the left gutter during the week and more than one occassion where he did so on the Telecast. I do agree as a proprietor, I would not want that happening week after week. The solution, is to put more oil down so the high rev players (both 1 and 2 handed) don't have to to do that. I fail to see the big deal or why some people are so up in arms about this. It's not new.
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squirrelywrath1

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2014, 12:41:50 PM »
[]
Burning up the pattern during practice has been around for many years.  If some of [/quote]

"Ruin the shot for other bowlers"? What does this even mean? Its a disturbing thought process.
[/quote]


Personally I've seen this done a couple times at the league level.   A team of right-handers started throwing charcoal up the left side hoping to destroy the heads so a couple of lefties on the other team would struggle by not being able to get their ball to push down the lane properly.

Oh, I guess that they started doing this about halfway through the 15 minutes of practice before league started.

ccrider

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2014, 12:47:07 PM »
I don't get it.  If the shot is ruined, why is it that someone like Norm Duke, or Walter Ray Williams can stay right, ball down, change their release and score.

These guys are making choices about where they think they can score best. Just because they move deep or loft the gutter cap, does not mean that that is where they should be playing to win.

sgtcat09

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2014, 01:40:07 PM »
Heres how I see it.

Most of the people I see complain about things like pattern breakdown, or even finishes on balls (Requiring 4000? Really?) tend to be people who want easy shots, high scores, and dont want to have to think about anything to win.

Guess what? Patterns break down. Deal with it. You can either learn to adjust to them and play (As we all have to) or you can complain about it.

If someone wants to throw a low grit to intentionally burn up an area to help themselves, go for it. Theres more than 1 line you can play, find a different one.

Especially in this context, we're talking about PBA tour players. I think they can  deal with having to adjust and change their strategy. Those who can do it effectively win, those who can't aren't going to. Simple.
I dont see a point in trying to reoil after games, limit finishes, etc. Learn to adapt.
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vindo27

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2014, 05:41:35 PM »
Why don't we outlaw being left handed while we're at it

bradl

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2014, 06:01:37 PM »
Why don't we outlaw being left handed while we're at it

Earl, Aleta, and Dana won't let you.  ;)

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avabob

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2014, 06:22:54 PM »
Sorry, but I don't advocate surface restrictions because I want easy shots.  I want surface restrictions so the challenging shots maintain their challenge a bit longer.  I have bowled for 50 years competitively.  Have won as much or more with modern equipment as with the old stuff so nothing I say is sour grapes.  Indeed, with my game I can often stay right of the boomers who blow up the pattern.  My comments were what I consider to be in the best interest of the game at a high competitive level.  Note that the junior gold and some other high level national junior tourneys were limiting finalists to urethane and plastic, so it is not horrible to suggest that PBA competitors wouldn't be ruined by doing something similar. 

batbowler

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2014, 11:37:06 PM »
That's like telling these guys at nationals that they can't all play the same zone or area to change or shape their reaction, let them practice and re-oil before scoring, they did the same back in the day with soaking bowling ball in mek to soften the shell. Heck guys did that before they created the durometer hardness specs back in the day. It's been here in some form or another since bowling started. Why did the bowling ball scale get the name of dodo scale? Cause bowlers figure out how to alter their bowling balls back 60 years ago or longer. Just my $.02,Bruce
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amyers2002

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2014, 11:59:36 PM »
I don't agree that we should limit surfaces or ball types but I do think re-oiling between championship matches is a good idea. It would be interesting to watch the scores drop.

squirrelywrath1

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2014, 09:41:08 AM »
Why don't we outlaw being left handed while we're at it


I understand that there is at least one competitive league that already HAS banned left-handers.   Reason because of severe topography issues of the host center giving the lefties a huge advantage.  (Or so they say)

avabob

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2014, 10:30:34 AM »
Its not that the guys are doing anything wrong or illegal.  The point is that we have allowed the equipment to become so strong that it alters the condition in a manner unintended.  It is sad that technology has allowed us to have lane machines that can put out challenging yet fair conditions, but the balls basically destroy that pattern so quickly.  Why bother owning a 38K lane machine when the balls blow the shot up in 20 minutes of practice.  Just mop a bunch of oil on the lane, because they blow a hole in it in no time.  Again, not a slam on the bowlers, and this has nothing to do with the scoring level.  A more competitive environment where your success is less dependent on the guy you cross behind would be good for the game. 

NHLfan88

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2014, 10:32:41 AM »
I wonder if that "Defy Convention" Brunswick lane conditioner will make this entire argument moot. 
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ccrider

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Re: PBA Badger
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2014, 11:04:12 AM »
The cream rises to the top. More oil or longer lasting oil will benefit some, and hurt others. The best bowler is the one that can repeat shots, and figures out the best way to play the lanes in the moment. Figuring out how to adjust to the playing environment matters in all sports. So, no need to whimper and whine about the lane conditions, or balls with too much surface. Figure out how to knock all ten pins down with your balls on the surface that you play on and you win. If you can't figure out how to knockem down and the other guy does, he beat you that day. You loose. It's really that simple.

The beauty of it is that we all can roll the ball down the lane and knock ten pins down, no matter what the lane surface is or ball chosen. Over time, the best win the most.

So, for all of you crying because of the lane conditions, or balls having too much surface or left handers having an advantage or two handers having an advantage, send me your mailing address, I'll send you a hanky.