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Author Topic: Can the PWBA survive?  (Read 22551 times)

spencerwatts

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Can the PWBA survive?
« on: July 04, 2017, 07:06:05 AM »
Does it appear that bowler interest in the PWBA is starting to wane? 

In 2015, the first year, there was talk of capacity fields at each event. And the numbers appeared to be equally as strong, if not stronger, in 2016. But the field sizes are arguably lower in 2017.

Essentially, given the cash ratio is somewhere in the 2:1 range at most events, I don't see how those numbers justify any long-term viability and success. Eventually, the sponsors that the PWBA does have will demand a better return on investment.
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charlest

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2017, 02:02:08 PM »
.... Most of them have to be smart enough to realize this is not a sustainable model and they need to get a piece of the action while it's still around.

Personally, I think this is the saddest part of this whole picture for the sport, for the women who chose this vocation/avocation/hobby and for the people like us, who appreciate the style, grace, tenacity and humanity of the women of the PWBA.
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JustRico

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2017, 03:19:17 PM »
They are creating a playing environment that is so difficult, that it has basically eliminated the marginal player...when they feel as if they have no chance they quit donating
The game/sport of bowling cannot seem to find a ground/condition between high scoring and absolutely, ridiculously impossible
I repped for Global at the first two stops (Rhonert & Sacramento) and the condition they provided at Rhonert may be one of the hardest shots I've ever seen...it got to a point that the 1-3 was almost out of play
Make em hard is one thing...embarrass half the field and you start losing bowlers
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BobOhio

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2017, 03:35:31 PM »
I agree about the patterns being used. Should they be hard, yes, impossible no.
Many bowling fans don't tune in to see bowlers struggle, and don't understand patterns anyway. I would say 85 to 90 % don't, including most house bowlers. So, I don't see why the powers to be make these type decisions. Let them strike, the better bowlers or more talented will be on top anyway. Bowling needs bowlers that feel they can compete. If they don't get a hundred a tournament, this to, will get smaller or be completely gone in short order.
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JustRico

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2017, 04:04:37 PM »
The average bowler doesn't care to watch the elite struggle...they do that enough
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morpheus

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2017, 05:25:32 PM »
I would argue the USBC is doing the same thing with the Open Championships with respect to the difficulty of the patterns which will, to an even greater extent due to skill level, ultimately lose bowlers. The core problem in terms of having viable tours for men and women rests in the inability to grow membership, but apparently that's a job left solely to local associations which hasn't been working for decades.
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JPbowling151

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2017, 07:53:28 PM »
They are creating a playing environment that is so difficult, that it has basically eliminated the marginal player...when they feel as if they have no chance they quit donating
The game/sport of bowling cannot seem to find a ground/condition between high scoring and absolutely, ridiculously impossible
I repped for Global at the first two stops (Rhonert & Sacramento) and the condition they provided at Rhonert may be one of the hardest shots I've ever seen...it got to a point that the 1-3 was almost out of play
Make em hard is one thing...embarrass half the field and you start losing bowlers

+1 So true. I've noticed the same problem in some local tournaments offered in my area in NJ. Number of bowler entries drop when the shot is too easy and scoring pace is too high, they drop even more when they make it too difficult for your marginal bowler, myself included who wish not to donate knowing we don't have a palpable shot. It almost seems like a lose, lose situation.

Speaking of the PWBA Rohnert Park, CA stop, yeah you can tell something isn't right when the elite can shoot -172 to make the cashers round. Tough watching elite young bowlers like Renslow grind out to shoot a 200 game.
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JustRico

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2017, 07:56:10 PM »
I enjoyed working with Ms Renslow, as well as the other Global ladies those couple of weeks
Brutal what occurred with the lanes over 12 games
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Juggernaut

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2017, 09:15:18 PM »
They are creating a playing environment that is so difficult, that it has basically eliminated the marginal player...when they feel as if they have no chance they quit donating
The game/sport of bowling cannot seem to find a ground/condition between high scoring and absolutely, ridiculously impossible
I repped for Global at the first two stops (Rhonert & Sacramento) and the condition they provided at Rhonert may be one of the hardest shots I've ever seen...it got to a point that the 1-3 was almost out of play
Make em hard is one thing...embarrass half the field and you start losing bowlers

 Thank you.

 It has always been my contention that intentionally making the conditions harder was very counter productive to what they were trying to achieve.

 Look, I know that technology has changed the game forever, and has allowed the players to exploit things in a way they never could before, but artificially making bowling hard in order to counteract that effect was not the way to go.

 I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There are ways to lower the scoring pace without making the game harder.

 
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mstevens

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2017, 10:01:41 PM »
I might sound harsh but the ladies tour died a long long time ago.

The "conditions" they have are tough, however, if the same was applied on the mens tour they find a way to make it work.

No offense, the pwba is and always has been a joke since women can compete on the mens tour and not reversed--- playing the gender card much?

I stand by the thought of eliminating all ball reps, player services, coaching etc from both bring what you have and no more drilling balls because you are " on staff".

Level the field on both sides since 99% of entrants are not the lucrative " staff palyers" on either tour and watch watch what happnes

beastmode1970

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2017, 11:55:02 PM »
I dont see the tour being around much longer. Their fields are getting smaller and smaller. And I agree with some of the other posts about their patterns being very hard. I lke that they bowl at different venues like in years past. I dont like that everything is taped and not live. Also, the telecasts are very boring. No emotion or personalities while bowling. Makes it very hard to watch and stay interested.

bowling_rebel

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2017, 01:19:38 AM »
If someone doen't like women's bowling, then don't watch it. Looking at what recently happened on PBA with wolf pattern and Rhino Page and Chris Barnes throwing gutter balls - a difficult pattern on TV is going to be difficult. Nice to see them finding a way to make it work.

As far as women on PBA - they let women in after PWBA folded. Some women have won regional. Kelly Kulick has 1 PBA title, Liz Johnson made TV twice and, Clara Guerrero made TV once also.

So what does this show - that the absolute top women bowlers can be competitive on PBA level - yes. But it's not like going to have 30 women show up at PBA event. Make TV, win, then go across the stress to compete in there own event.

Allowing women into the PBA was a good gesture on part of PBA to do something for women's bowling after PWBA folded. They also had their womens series briefly, and it was nice to see making an effort to support women, w/o a woman's tour - although PBA has enough problems with just having a men's tour.





Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2017, 07:59:34 AM »
People will not watch bowling unless it is fun to watch.  The Oklahoma Open finals were not particularly fun to watch.  While I get Marshall's idea of making it a shotmaking contest, sometimes you can go overboard.  If par for bowling is 200, and the majority of them are shooting under that on tv, it's akin to making a golf course so tough that the pros are shooting bogey or double bogey all day long, and nobody wants to watch that.  Even the elite are subject to the standard deviation of human accuracy, and the line is beginning to get crossed. 

On the other hand, go back to the tv show that Learn shot that huge set or some of those shows in the 90s that were high scoring and tell me that wasn't fun to watch.  Also tell me there wasn't shotmaking pressure.  Miss one shot and you're done.  You'd think they'd also understand that hitting the pocket doesn't qualify as a good shot.  You may see bowlers act like they got robbed when they don't carry, they just knew it was close and were hoping it was going to be close enough.  There's a physics reason for everything that happens in bowling, and I can tell you I know off my hand when something is close but might be a drive by 9, ring 10, or even something like a stone 7.  I don't know what brutal patterns have to do with integrity.  I know what they have to do with being boring as hell to watch though.  You can't have the best in the world throwing gutter balls and shooting 150 and think that people are going to watch that for long. 

However, I do think the stubborn traditionalists need to start thinking outside the box.  That pattern wasn't conducive to a traditional bowling shot for many.  At what point do you start throwing the ball straight at the 1-3 to hit the pocket and keep yourself out of trouble.  I can sure shoot better than 150 throwing the ball straight, but it seems that throwing a traditional bowling shot is more important than knocking the pins down, and if it can't be done doing it the way you want to do it, well I guess 150 here I come.  I actually like watching the women bowl, but watching the men is getting hard to do.  They're all either pissy and negative or completely stoic.  Nobody looks like they want to be there, and when you end up saying that Chris freaking Barnes is the most alive exciting guy on the show, actually acting happy, trying to smile, trying to relax, getting excited throwing strikes . . come on, that's when you know you've got issues. 
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northface28

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2017, 08:22:25 AM »
Sounds like some of you should go watch some wrasslin' instead of bowling.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2017, 08:29:57 AM »
The reality is people just don't watch bowling.  Period.  The scores being high or low is just an excuse one way or the other.

An for the average person to try and sit and watch has to brutal.  How does the person flipping the channel supposed to know what "off the spot" means.  They do a terrible job explaining the game to a viewer that might not know anything about bowling.  And the talk about the pattern this and that.  Most bowlers don't know that stuff.  They need to dumb it down a little without it being insulting.  A lot less technical.   

JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Can the PWBA survive?
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2017, 11:06:22 AM »
The reality is people just don't watch bowling.  Period.  The scores being high or low is just an excuse one way or the other.

An for the average person to try and sit and watch has to brutal.  How does the person flipping the channel supposed to know what "off the spot" means.  They do a terrible job explaining the game to a viewer that might not know anything about bowling.  And the talk about the pattern this and that.  Most bowlers don't know that stuff.  They need to dumb it down a little without it being insulting.  A lot less technical.

This is the truth. Most people don't care about watching bowling. They don't care about patterns or what it takes to get to the pocket. So those people are out. Most viewers are also bowlers, and the majority are ones who are fairly serious about it. But of those, there are many who want excitement. Few people appreciate the grind. It's why people hated the trap in hockey. It's why many don't like watching soccer. Few enjoy a 3-0 football game... the list goes on.

When it comes down to it, many people are only entertained by action and excitement. Grind, strategy, etc. does not do it for these people. That's just the way it is. Bowling is always going to struggle for viewers. Nothing anyone can do about it unless you make massive changes to the game.