BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Radical => Topic started by: newguy on June 14, 2016, 10:55:00 AM
-
Go to our website
www.radicalbowling.com
and check out our 3 new ball launches announced today.
-
How will the ridiculous pearl differ from the jackpot
-
How will the ridiculous pearl differ from the jackpot
Different core, cover and performance, more skid flip, its the Ridiculous with more backend
-
How does the Xeno compare to the Ridiculous Asymm or Score?
-
How does the Xeno compare to the Ridiculous Asymm or Score?
Stronger than the Ridiculous Asym. More off the spot than the Score
-
How does the Guru Limited compare to the Guru Mighty?
-
How does the Guru Limited compare to the Guru Mighty?
Limited is more down the lane and more off the spot
-
Plus I believe the Mighty is a hybrid where limited is a pearl,so more of skid/flip motion
-
It seems all three balls are "stronger off the spot". How was it determined this shape was needed in the lineup? Were the previously described "stronger off the spot" balls not really strong off the spot based on user feedback? Or is there something else that elicits this type of reaction across all new balls?
-
How does the Xeno compare to the Ridiculous Asymm or Score?
Stronger than the Ridiculous Asym. More off the spot than the Score
How about the V2 Pearl?
-
I agree I think it depends on how well the cover matches up with the core,Because to me the widow limited is much more smoother compared to the area legend pearl,as well as with the dark legend
-
What is the release date for the new balls? I need to mark my calendar for the new Guru Limited. I can't wait to pair that bad boy up with my Mighty! LOL!
-
What is the release date for the new balls? I need to mark my calendar for the new Guru Limited. I can't wait to pair that bad boy up with my Mighty! LOL!
All of the Brunswick and family releases are either 7/12 or 8/9. Looks like the Guru is on 7/12
-
Ok, thanks!
Cool - 7/12 is during my vacation. Guess I'll be at the pro shop that week. :D 8) ;D
-
Plus I believe the Mighty is a hybrid where limited is a pearl,so more of skid/flip motion
per Phil, the Mighty is a solid with additives for it to react like a pearl. I guess they decided an actual pearl was still needed.
His quote below.
nope. Its neither. That's all I'm gonna say at this time. I will say we are in uncharted territory with the current Guru cover and the next ball goes to a new level. We are the Coverstock leaders.
-
Does not the Xeno compare more favorably to the Reax Version 2 series/Reax Gusto series pieces in terms of core and actual numbers?
-
I absolutely cannot wait for the Ridiculous Pearl to come out....Love that series of bowling balls
-
Does not the Xeno compare more favorably to the Reax Version 2 series/Reax Gusto series pieces in terms of core and actual numbers?
Numbers are the same at the Reax V2. Cover is more responsive
-
It seems all three balls are "stronger off the spot". How was it determined this shape was needed in the lineup? Were the previously described "stronger off the spot" balls not really strong off the spot based on user feedback? Or is there something else that elicits this type of reaction across all new balls?
I determine the performance targets based on several factors, some of which but not all are performance within the line. ( check out the performance chart and you can see where the holes in the line were) and consumer requests.
The Guru pearl limited edition is stronger off the spot simply because it is a pearl version of the Great Guru core. Thus by nature the pearl cover stores energy and responds to friction in a quick fashion (but you already knew that )
The Ridiculous pearl ( see above Guru response)
The Xeno is a bit unique as we have a great core (the Reax V2 solid) but now have a chance to use a 4th iteration cover that is by nature more responsive.
I hope this answers your questions and concerns.
-
It seems all three balls are "stronger off the spot". How was it determined this shape was needed in the lineup? Were the previously described "stronger off the spot" balls not really strong off the spot based on user feedback? Or is there something else that elicits this type of reaction across all new balls?
I determine the performance targets based on several factors, some of which but not all are performance within the line. ( check out the performance chart and you can see where the holes in the line were) and consumer requests.
The Guru pearl limited edition is stronger off the spot simply because it is a pearl version of the Great Guru core. Thus by nature the pearl cover stores energy and responds to friction in a quick fashion (but you already knew that )
The Ridiculous pearl ( see above Guru response)
The Xeno is a bit unique as we have a great core (the Reax V2 solid) but now have a chance to use a 4th iteration cover that is by nature more responsive.
I hope this answers your questions and concerns.
So looking at the Radical ball chart before the release of these three new balls I see 9 out of 11 balls are at the middle of the reaction range to more backend. That leaves 2 out of 11 balls classified as more roll according to the chart. With the introduction of the new balls, all of which I assume will be above the middle of the chart in the more backend category, Radical will have devoted 86% of their complete arsenal to medium to more backend bowling balls.
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bowlersedge.biz%2Fshop%2Fcontents%2Fmedia%2Fl_radical%2520current%2520line%2520scale-regular-paper.png&hash=024fc4f1ce099a281ca049769baa0b0cf70509c4)
So my question is this: is this an instant of giving the market more of what you are already providing at the sake of a more complete arsenal?
I don't discount sales as a motivating factor when it comes to bowling ball releases, but I question as a consumer the need for these particular pieces. Or at least all three at the same time. If I were to look to Radical for a complete arsenal I would think, based on this chart and these release, that it is not a complete arsenal and I would have to find pieces elsewhere to fit all of my needs.
-
Wrong Chart!
Also about 90% of our customers bowl on house shots. Most popular ball motion is long and flip meaning on the oils of today they want a ball to store energy before it gets to the back part of the lane. We already have the most hook rated balls on the market with the Guru Master and Guru Supreme so the high hook end is covered very nicely. So as technology allows us we offer more of what they want. Lastly we launch certain performance characteristics at certain times of the year. I hope this answers your concerns.
-
The only difference between the chart I posted and what is shown on the Radical website is the addition of the three new balls (Xeno, Guru Limited, and the Ridiculous Pearl) and the removal of the Primo.
I understand the THS bowler being the core of the sales and wanting to cater to those bowlers. It is just my personal opinion it seems the lineup is skewed to one style a little more extreme than others. And to be honest, it is okay since Radical is tied to Brunswick and DV8.
-
Link to chart please? I could not find it on the Radical website.
Searched on the site gave this:
Search Results Your search for “ball chart†returned 1 results
Mo Pinel’s Radical Approach to the 2014 USBC Open Championships
-
I had to use Google since I too did not find a chart on the Radical website.
http://www.bowlersedge.biz/shop/contents/media/l_radical%20current%20line%20scale-regular-paper.png (http://www.bowlersedge.biz/shop/contents/media/l_radical%20current%20line%20scale-regular-paper.png)
-
I had to use Google since I too did not find a chart on the Radical website.
http://www.bowlersedge.biz/shop/contents/media/l_radical%20current%20line%20scale-regular-paper.png (http://www.bowlersedge.biz/shop/contents/media/l_radical%20current%20line%20scale-regular-paper.png)
Thanks. I thought at one time I did find it on their website. Maybe it was just here on this site.
-
Link to chart please? I could not find it on the Radical website.
Searched on the site gave this:
Search Results Your search for “ball chart†returned 1 results
Mo Pinel’s Radical Approach to the 2014 USBC Open Championships
I believe this is Radical's ball chart
http://radicalbowling.com/balls/compare (http://radicalbowling.com/balls/compare)
(https://s5.postimg.org/atiyeesg7/Radical_Ball_Chart.jpg)
-
Link to chart please? I could not find it on the Radical website.
Searched on the site gave this:
Search Results Your search for “ball chart†returned 1 results
Mo Pinel’s Radical Approach to the 2014 USBC Open Championships
I believe this is Radical's ball chart
http://radicalbowling.com/balls/compare (http://radicalbowling.com/balls/compare)
(https://s5.postimg.org/atiyeesg7/Radical_Ball_Chart.jpg)
That is what I was able to find on their website. It unfortunately only gives one aspect of what many bowlers are looking for, strength.
-
I think the chart is suppose to be under the "Compare" button, except there is no link on the Compare button and hasn't been for some time.
The One posted above is their Oil handling chart, not reaction.
-
I think the chart is suppose to be under the "Compare" button, except there is no link on the Compare button and hasn't been for some time.
The One posted above is their Oil handling chart, not reaction.
The "Compare" button is not a button it's just a section title. the button is the one below that which say's analyze. Which takes you to the oil comparison chart, which is the only chart they have.
I believe Radical decided not to use a hook vs length system like the other chart does for ball comparison.
-
I think the chart is suppose to be under the "Compare" button, except there is no link on the Compare button and hasn't been for some time.
The One posted above is their Oil handling chart, not reaction.
The "Compare" button is not a button it's just a section title. the button is the one below that which say's analyze. Which takes you to the oil comparison chart, which is the only chart they have.
I believe Radical decided not to use a hook vs length system like the other chart does for ball comparison.
You say that but the version of it that someone posted a few posts ago has the Jackpot on it, which is technically the latest release from Radical. So is someone else keeping that sheet updated on another forum? Or is it just not easy to find on their website?
-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208712943533889&set=gm.613988702108511&type=3
I believe this will get you the page.
Its under the Radical Fan facebook page.
-
You say that but the version of it that someone posted a few posts ago has the Jackpot on it, which is technically the latest release from Radical. So is someone else keeping that sheet updated on another forum? Or is it just not easy to find on their website?
That other reaction chart is updated by Gary Faulkner and new guy posted a facebook link to it I see. (which is the newest as it has the Xeno on it)
But that chart is not on Radicals site.
-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208712943533889&set=gm.613988702108511&type=3
I believe this will get you the page.
Its under the Radical Fan facebook page.
I know I am in the minority nowadays, but I don't have a Facebook account nor do I wish to open one (which it requests in order to see the page). So I am out of luck except for Aloar's help, who should be on someone's staff.
-
Sorry for the size, but that is what it is.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13403328_10208712943533889_8341542332464759225_o.jpg)
-
Sorry for the size, but that is what it is.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13403328_10208712943533889_8341542332464759225_o.jpg)
this chart is,on page 2,without the new releases. Anyone notice how the red ridiculous moved from more angular to less than the black ridiculous? So does the chart change to benefit new releases?
-
The new Xeno and the Reax V2 have the same core and numbers with a different cover. The current ball comparison chart has the Xeno charted to the far right and just left and a little below the of the Guru Supreme. Whereas the Reax V2 was previously positioned almost in the exact middle of the previous ball reaction chart.
The impression I'm getting is the new Xeno is a much stronger ball than the Reax V2. Yet, when looking at the oil comparision chart the Xeno is shown as a medium oil ball (where the green is) and the Reax V2 as a heavy oil ball (where the green is).
If I am not looking at these chart correctly, which I most likely I am not. Then could someone please explain how the new Xeno (medium oil ball) could be so close to the Guru Supreme on the current chart? Thanks
-
The new Xeno and the Reax V2 have the same core and numbers with a different cover. The current ball comparison chart has the Xeno charted to the far right and just left and a little below the of the Guru Supreme. Whereas the Reax V2 was previously positioned almost in the exact middle of the previous ball reaction chart.
The impression I'm getting is the new Xeno is a much stronger ball than the Reax V2. Yet, when looking at the oil comparision chart the Xeno is shown as a medium oil ball (where the green is) and the Reax V2 as a heavy oil ball (where the green is).
If I am not looking at these chart correctly, which I most likely I am not. Then could someone please explain how the new Xeno (medium oil ball) could be so close to the Guru Supreme on the current chart? Thanks
All is relative to the balls in the line at the time the Reax V2 was the strongest ball we had.
-
OK then, so is the Xeno stronger or weaker than the Reax V2?
-
OK then, so is the Xeno stronger or weaker than the Reax V2?
[/quote
Stronger. New cover technology.
-
Newguy,
Another question, sorry. You stated the Xeno is stronger than the Reax V2. The Xeno is a medium oil ball (where the green is) per the latest Radical oil comparison chart. So, does that mean the Reax V2 which 2 1/2 years ago was shown as a medium to heavy oil ball on the oil comparison chart back then, would now be a light oil ball on the current oil comparison chart?
-
Newguy,
Another question, sorry. You stated the Xeno is stronger than the Reax V2. The Xeno is a medium oil ball (where the green is) per the latest Radical oil comparison chart. So, does that mean the Reax V2 which 2 1/2 years ago was shown as a medium to heavy oil ball on the oil comparison chart back then, would now be a light oil ball on the current oil comparison chart?
You're putting too much thought into a chart. Most people that had the Reax V2 really liked it on medium conditions to maybe slightly heavier. The chart is a guide not an exact because everyone situation is different
-
SVstar34,
I understand your comment, but Radical puts this information out there for our knowledge and a way for us to make hopefuuly better decisions in what ball(s) we want for varied applications. I just want to know how I can measure my Reax V2 against the new Xeno. Since, I have found my V2 likes heavy oil better than medium oil and the Xeno is stated to stronger, I probably could not find a use for it. But, maybe I am wring about that.
If I cannot put faith in any kind of accuracy in these charts, then why put them out there? I like the charts and I want to believe in them and use them as one of many tools to help make my decisions about the kind of ball I wish to purchase.
I would still like to hear from newguy (Phil) as he is a industry Guru (no pun intended). But, thank you for the comments.
-
The Reax V2 solid has proved to be a ball of choice once lane transition occurs, meaning in most cases it's the second or third ball out of my bag. (I was under the impression the Reax V2 was a heavy oil piece, and all I did was frustrate myself.)
Phil says the Xeno's cover is more responsive. If so, at least for my game, it may be a benchmark piece.
-
For my game and where I bowl the Reax V2 solid is first out of my bag and it's good for the first two games, then out comes the V2 pearl for game three.
Phil did say the Xeno is more responsive. To me that means friction, a more noticeable or defined move to the pocket. He also said it was stronger than the V2 solid, which I equate to being able to more oil.
I would like to hear from "newguy" about "if the Xeno is stronger than the V2 solid, does that now mean today the V2 is a light oil ball if put on the current oil chart alongside the Xeno".
Hope to hear from newguy. I value your answer.
-
Spencerwatts,
I received your PM and I thank you for it. I am in no way suggesting the Reax V2 is by any means a light oil ball regardless if your bowling on a THS or a sport shot. Like I stated my Reax V2 solid is the first ball out of my bag on a THS on med to heavy oil.
My question is the latest Radical Oil Chart shows the new Xeno as a medium oil ball (green). And "newguy" states the Xeno is more responsive (friction-my interpertation) and stronger (amount of oil it can handle-my interperation) than the V2 solid. That it itself says the Reax V2 solid based on today's oil conditions (assuming new oils and amounts used) from 2013 till now is now a light oil ball. Yet, anyone who owns one (me) knows it is not.
So either the current Oil Comparison Chart is wrong for the new Xeno (medium oil, green) or the new Xeno needs to be reclassified on the oil chart with more green for med. to heavy oil; if it truly is more responsive and stronger, which I believe "newguy" says it is.
If I am wrong, then please tell me WHY.
Where is "newguy" when you need him?
-
Bowlaholic, if you send Phil a question, or you post something on here, he's good with getting back to you. But you're making too much out of the ball chart stuff. Use it as a guide and not as gospel (which is what someone else has also suggested to you.)
The only thing that will tell you what and when to use a piece is the ball once you're using it. That also brings the importance of knowing your game and your equipment into the equation.
-
spencerwatts,
I agree with your second paragraph 100%. However, the lack of a response from "newguy" to my last two posts says he cannot explain why Radical rated the Xeno as a medium oil ball on their current Oil Comparison Chart while stating the Xeno is more responsive (friction) and stronger (ability to handle more oil) than the Reax V2 solid which was previously charted as a med. to heavy oil ball.
I think when Radical are classifying their balls they may have forgotten where they classified their previously releases.
So here is where I am at.....If the Xeno is stronger than the Reax V2, then I have no use for it as my V2 solid is as strong as most would need for a THS, as well as my scratch league.
My point to this discussion was either the Xeno is classified (medium/green by Radical) as to low meaning it should be shown as a heavy oil ball or the Reax V2 solid has now become a light oil ball on today's oil patterns and new oils which my experience does not support.
I am going to end this interest & discussion, by aborting my interest in the Xeno. However, I will never subscribe to the theory that I put to much emphasis in the Radical Oil Chart. Why, because if I can't put some value in the charts Radical publishes, then everything they put out to us is nothing more than HOCUS POCUS!
Good night and best wishes to all. Sorry "newguy" that apparently you lost interest in providing an answer to my previous inquires. Oh well, life goes on!
-
The world doesn't revolve around you. Be thankful that someone like Phil takes time to respond to people on this site when he's busy running a company and has a family.
Neither of us has said to not put value in the chart, but don't put so much value into it. The Xeno uses the same core as the Reax V2 but has a stronger cover, therefore, the Xeno is stronger than the V2
-
SVstar34,
I was done responding, but your personal attack post deserves a reply. Nunber one....Sorry to have to tell you the world does not resolve around you either. Number two....I previously stated I considered Phil (newguy) a industry Guru (again, no pun intended) and I valued his input. Number three.....Phil found the time to respond with good info until I asked why the Xeno is shown as a medium oil ball on the Oil Comparison Chart when in fact that is not what the Ball Chart shows. And it does not match up to where the Reax V2 was (med.-heavy) oil on the previous oil chart.
Radical puts the oil comparison chart on their website and invite people to "compare/analyze". If their info is not somewhat accurate, then how can I or any consumer believe anything they state. Such as "you want numbers, we got numbers". Maybe those number should not be taken seriously by putting to much value in them according to you & others.
I believe the Oil Comparision Chart is wrong for the Xeno and that is supported by where Radical has pegged the Xeno on the Ball Chart. Would it not be better to admit to a publishing error for the Xeno and correct the Oil Chart accordingly, so it matches the Ball Chart and erases the V2 question. Simple fix....let's see?
-
Your question to newguy was about 40 minutes after his last post, so he probably left the forum and hadn't seen your new question yet. Maybe Phil will respond to your questions when he comes back on the forum.
-
Hate to tell you this because I was waiting to see what Phil would say but the Oil Comparison chart is correct. The only balls higher on the chart than the Xeno are the Gurus and the Ridiculous, Ridiculous Pearl, and Jackpot are lower. The Xeno can handle medium-heavy oil in essentially the same category as the Ridiculous Asymm and Primo Solid, however all 3 use different cores offering different motions and it looks like Radical pegs the Xeno as more versatile than the other 2
-
So Let me see if I get this straight,
Sunday after noon, Fathers day, US open finals, Dinner with my family then the NBA final game and the response I get is
1) .....Phil found the time to respond with good info until I asked why the Xeno is shown as a medium oil ball on the Oil Comparison Chart when in fact that is not what the Ball Chart shows. And it does not match up to where the Reax V2 was (med.-heavy) oil on the previous oil chart.
2) If their info is not somewhat accurate, then how can I or any consumer believe anything they state. Such as "you want numbers, we got numbers". Maybe those number should not be taken seriously by putting to much value in them according to you & others.
3) @8:20 last night... Sorry "newguy" that apparently you lost interest in providing an answer to my previous inquires. Oh well, life goes on!
So besides all of the above there are several more. The initial question was how does the new Xeno compare to the original Reax V2 Solid. My answer to this question
OK then, so is the Xeno stronger or weaker than the Reax V2?
[/quote
Stronger. New cover technology.
So now we get into the comparison chart on the website my answer is at the bottom
The new Xeno and the Reax V2 have the same core and numbers with a different cover. The current ball comparison chart has the Xeno charted to the far right and just left and a little below the of the Guru Supreme. Whereas the Reax V2 was previously positioned almost in the exact middle of the previous ball reaction chart.
The impression I'm getting is the new Xeno is a much stronger ball than the Reax V2. Yet, when looking at the oil comparision chart the Xeno is shown as a medium oil ball (where the green is) and the Reax V2 as a heavy oil ball (where the green is).
If I am not looking at these chart correctly, which I most likely I am not. Then could someone please explain how the new Xeno (medium oil ball) could be so close to the Guru Supreme on the current chart? Thanks
All is relative to the balls in the line at the time the Reax V2 was the strongest ball we had.
I'm really not sure I can be more clear, we do not go back and adjust the comparison chart, as a matter of fact the Reax V2 isn't even on the new chart. We only compare the balls that are currently in the line.
Things change dramatically over the years, oil viscosity, lane machines, cleaners, resin formulas and additives. We only deal with the current line.
Is the Reax V2 considered a light oil ball Yes or no you tell me because each person and situation is different. If it is for you so be it, if it not than that's ok to. The chart is a guideline and a starting point. We can not be all knowing, surface preps can move the performance all over the board.
I spend time on this forum to share info, sometimes it becomes overbearing. Please take this into consideration. I do it as a favor to all of you, we do not sell tons of balls through this sight, there simply isn't enough traffic, I could easily bail on this sight and not feel it was a wrong move. I do it to share knowledge, but really to personally attack me by saying I don't care or didn't respond in what you see as a timely manner, REALLY!
I will say this if it keeps up it will be spending less and less time, my suggestion is that if the info is valuable to you all on this site than police it yourselves.
-
Mo's ( and I assume Newguy's) definition of stronger is "transitions faster", so a "stronger" ball will transition from skid to hook to roll faster than a weaker ball. -- JohnP
Edit: I posted this responding to an earlier post without realizing I hadn't looked at a couple of pages of new posts.
-
Strike 2!
-
Strike 2!
What happens when strike 3 happens? You don't buy the ball that you were never going to buy anyway because you hate Brunswick?
-
Strike 2!
What happens when strike 3 happens? You don't buy the ball that you were never going to buy anyway because you hate Brunswick?
I guess the joke went over your head... This is the 2nd time Phil has threatened to leave this site, thus the strike 2 comment. He even insulted the readers here by saying that there purchase does not matter because the site does not have the viewership that it once had.
-
Strike 2!
What happens when strike 3 happens? You don't buy the ball that you were never going to buy anyway because you hate Brunswick?
I guess the joke went over your head... This is the 2nd time Phil has threatened to leave this site, thus the strike 2 comment. He even insulted the readers here by saying that there purchase does not matter because the site does not have the viewership that it once had.
You're just a troll plain and simple.
-
Strike 2!
What happens when strike 3 happens? You don't buy the ball that you were never going to buy anyway because you hate Brunswick?
I guess the joke went over your head... This is the 2nd time Phil has threatened to leave this site, thus the strike 2 comment. He even insulted the readers here by saying that there purchase does not matter because the site does not have the viewership that it once had.
You're just a troll plain and simple.
but the guy causing this whole issue isn't? K
Hell, I'm not trying to troll. I'm posting facts. Unlike some in this thread.
-
Strike 2!
What happens when strike 3 happens? You don't buy the ball that you were never going to buy anyway because you hate Brunswick?
I guess the joke went over your head... This is the 2nd time Phil has threatened to leave this site, thus the strike 2 comment. He even insulted the readers here by saying that there purchase does not matter because the site does not have the viewership that it once had.
Oh. I guess I did miss the joke. I don't know how I didn't catch it, it was a good one.
-
Strike 2!
What happens when strike 3 happens? You don't buy the ball that you were never going to buy anyway because you hate Brunswick?
I guess the joke went over your head... This is the 2nd time Phil has threatened to leave this site, thus the strike 2 comment. He even insulted the readers here by saying that there purchase does not matter because the site does not have the viewership that it once had.
Oh. I guess I did miss the joke. I don't know how I didn't catch it, it was a good one.
Thanks
-
Thanks Phil for responding to posts here on ballreviews.
I think that the confusion here is that hook in bowling has multiple definitions:
It describes the lateral movement of a ball on the lane (best described by Gary Faulkner's ball chart) and the ball's ability to traction in oil (the red/yellow/green line chart on the Radical page).
By this logic, the Xeno would cover a lot of boards on medium oil but not have Guru level traction in heavy oil.
-
Brandon,
I buy what you said. It makes sense. In regard to the strength of the Reax V2 in 2013 vs. today, I also buy into Phil's explanation that the oil viscosity, amount of oil, lane machines, today's resins vs. 2013 have changed when measured against today's balls. This also, makes sense.
Hopefully, we have all learned from these posts from input from the experts, without having to infer people are trolls for seeking competent answers to their questions.