Post by: ithinkican on January 03, 2012, 02:37:38 PM
i am a roto grip and storm fan. this ball is gettin the same level of talk about it as that nano pearl did. i bought the nano pearl and i was not that impressed with it. i like the arcs and design of the core and coverstock of the defiant and i hope it is better than the cell like some say it will be. but come on. is all this talk really necessary? when not too many people have even seen the balls real motion in person yet. all we see on video reviews, is when the ball strikes. i mean come on, i throw nearly 20-25 strikes everytime i bowl league
Post by: Big Jake on January 04, 2012, 11:34:44 AM
The reviews so far is that the Defiant is a very strong solid ball and some say a little stronger than the VG Nano with that being said I just got and threw the Roto-Grip THEORY and wow!! one of the strongest balls I ever threw
for me I really would wonder why one would need something stonger than that...just saying!
Summer arsenal: Now throwing ROTO-GRIP
Post by: Metal_rules on January 04, 2012, 11:55:32 AM
I have talked to a few reliable sources, and i have herd nothing but good stuff. the bottom line is we will see on the 10th. at least i will for sure, I'm picking mine up that night.
Post by: 814 on January 04, 2012, 12:48:21 PM
Yep.
I cant wait for the 10th. Ball is awesome and looks good doing what it does.
Edited by 814 on 1/4/2012 at 1:49 PM
Post by: mediumrevs15 on January 04, 2012, 09:15:59 PM
Ball is drilled with pin over ring and cg, mb kicked out a tad.
I also have nano and can never get past the first game with it as it becomes to strong.
The defiant does not burn the oil line nearly as fast as the nano.
I moved left a total of 3 boards all night.
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on January 04, 2012, 09:35:10 PM
Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly.
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy
Post by: ithinkican on January 05, 2012, 12:24:22 AM
i wasnt that impressed with the nano or nano pearl on house shots. they were something else on sport shots though. the victory road and the infinite theory were my favorite storm and roto grip balls produced last year. . i really want to try the defiant but i think i am going to hold off because my mission, cell, and three virtual energys are more than enough for medium to heavy oil patterns.
Post by: pro shop guy on January 05, 2012, 06:08:30 AM
Post by: Russell on January 05, 2012, 07:11:37 AM
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on January 05, 2012, 08:56:40 AM
lol@Russell.
I know where you're coming from, Russell, and I'm not saying there haven't been pieces similar to this ball in the past that would have been similar to the Defiant. However, we see a LOT of transition in our old wooden house shot. If you dare stay right of it, you'll need a LOT of speed to keep the ball on line. That will, usually, dramatically diminish carry for me as the night progresses. Oh, sure, migrate left is the answer but now your dancing across the burnt up track areas with 6-3 types of adjustments to get a better look. I'm able to stay left, well left, of everyone else from the start. That's not a bad thing for my game. I don't bank it off the cushion outside of five, I'm trying to keep the ball just to the right of the oil line (6-8) where the pattern tapers on the outside. We've got city tournament this weekend and they've put out the USBC Blue shot. I'm looking forward to seeing how it does with this condition for, as we all know, hook is NOT a problem on old wood.
Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly.
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on January 05, 2012, 09:00:58 AM
Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly.
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy
Post by: ithinkican on January 05, 2012, 09:33:42 AM
i throw 16-17.5 mph with a rather high rev rate and average 221+ on all 3 leagues that i bowl. i know this ball will hook off the wall for me. but so what i will adjust and figure something out but anyways the only thing that gets me is how they came out with a completely new level of bowling ball. the royal line!!!!! i kinda think it just a way to make there "high technological bowlin balls" more expensive like the storm, hammer, columbia, and ebonite has been doing. i mean think about it. the virtual gravity came out and the prices jumped to 140.00, then the mission came out and it jumped to 150.00 then the nano came out and it jumped to 160. and then the taboo pearl came out and it jumped to 165. now roto grip is stepping into the field just like the other companies are doing. i think money is what it all falls down to.......
Post by: Big Jake on January 13, 2012, 08:19:22 AM
Is there that much of a difference between the Theory and the Defiant?? the Theory is a lot of ball...just saying 
Summer arsenal: Now throwing ROTO-GRIP
Post by: Jorge300 on January 13, 2012, 09:41:09 AM
I can't help with this, sorry. But I did see someone throw the Defiant last night on Viper. He was easily 4-5 boards inside of everyone and crushing racks. In one tenth frame he brought our his Critical Theory, moved 4 boards right and proceeded to miss the headpin to the right. So hopefully that helps a little. I was very impressed with this ball.
Jorge300
Post by: Pat Patterson on January 13, 2012, 11:03:12 AM
It depends on who's throwing it and on what pattern they're using it on. In Brian Kretzer's hands on last sundays telecast on the Shark Pattern, it looked like a dud. IMHO........................
Pat Patterson
Post by: tloy on January 13, 2012, 11:09:01 AM
I believe it was a Storm Ball that Brian was throwing, not the Defiant. He had the Defiant but I never saw him throw it.....I will post some reviews next week as I am getting mine drilled tomorrow..
Todd Loy
Roto Grip King of Them All!!!!
Post by: bowlingnut18 on January 13, 2012, 11:22:37 AM
It was the defiant in his hand, although I never saw the telecast, the update video from Randy posted by Storm said was throwing it.
I don't think this ball lives up the hype everyone else is making it out to be. I drilled mine last night and everyone who walked by and saw it on the bench as I was laying it out and talking to my G/F's father about weather it was the correct layout for me all said the same thing, "wow that's that new Roto Grip, I heard it is a monster that will hook the whole lane". Granted I can hook it from gutter to gutter, but this ball does not produce a violent turn like everyone seems to be in assumption that a high performance ball will make. For me, 4x4x2 easy drilling put the pin over ring finger with a 3.5" pin and produced some excellent results for what I was looking for.
The ball was tested last night for 2 games on extreme carry down, what I saw on minimum oil in the heads and midlane with backends pretty slick makes me want to throw on fresh oil up front even more. This ball for myself gets me clean through the midlane and allows me to push past it all on any angle. The movement is a "committed arc" as I can only describe it, the ball just makes its decision to arc and really turns the corner without sacrificing too much energy to do so. I'm not a great bowler, and I'm not the most knowledgeable as far as tech terms and whatnot, but I see this ball as something that will get me through the fronts weather they are dry or not, and really cuts though the backend with heavy arc which produces some great pin action.
I played many different lines last night, and the only time I had an issue is when I didn't let the ball venture out to the right and play around. If I tugged it, it made me aware of it, if I sailed it wide, it still got back. I only shot 220 and 210 with it, but I was not shooting at spares, and was trying various lines almost every other frame, so overall I can say it's got great potential in my hand.
Post by: DeadWood Pro Shop on January 13, 2012, 11:26:42 AM
DeadWood Pro Shop
9307 Boone Road
Houston, TX 77099
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dead-Wood-Pro-Shop/175408269205990
Post by: tywithay on January 13, 2012, 11:40:12 AM
It will get the same reviews every bowling ball gets, especially heavy oil bowling balls. Some will say it's the best ball in history, I shot back to back 300's and 800's with it, it carries the world; keep in mind this is usually staffers with 230+ avgs. Some will say they really like it and it has a place in their bag. Others will say, its ok, but wasn't really what I was expecting. Then lastly, some will say...this stupid ball doesn't hook at all, it doesn't even hook as much as my slingshot. These are the morons trying to throw it on their second shift house shot on wood lanes and don't understand that its burnt up before it even hits the arrows.
As with any ball, some love it, some like it, some hate it; it'll always be this way because no 2 people bowl the same. No reason for there to be extra hype for any ball.
Post by: ithinkican on January 13, 2012, 11:52:50 AM
haha. i agree with you completely. I use to review that way a while back. but im learning alot everyday about this sport and i try to provide as much feedback as possible besides the scores that i have shot with it. i mean anything is possible. i spot a 754 at a tournament one time with a roto grip spare tire. """"best ball ever!!!!!"""""
Post by: jaydee on January 13, 2012, 11:59:31 AM
Wait, I thought every "next" ball is suppose to be the greatest ball ever thrown? The problem is, staffers go so over the top with praise on every release, you don't really know what's really good until you hear it from a good number of people without vested interest. Which takes at least a month or two.
Post by: Jorge300 on January 16, 2012, 10:14:25 AM
Let me add a little more to this topic. I just the Aulby bracket finals this weekend. Kretzer was throwing a Storm ball for the first 3 games....he switched to the Defiant in the last game. It may not have looked good but then again Belmonte was just coming off a 300 game and only shot 190. The shot was broken down, balls were hooking early, but there was too much oil to move much further left and have the ball recover. It would have been difficult to make any ball look good at the point that Kretzer brought out the Defiant.
I haven't thrown this ball yet. Once I do, I will be posting a review. I can only go by what I saw with someone bowling on our pair with last week in league. The house has new synthetic lanes and plays very slick. The gentlemen throwing it is a very very good tournament bowler, one of the best in Canada. But the reason he was bowling was that he was just coming off hurting his back and wanted to bowl a few games before going to a tournament, so not at 100% and he still made this ball look golden. It has very heavy roll, picked up well in the midlane when most other ball would not. He was maybe 15mph, so I expected him to be deeper then my 18.5MPH, but he was probably 10 boards deeper at the arrows then I was. And easily 4-5 boards deeper then any other RH we bowled against.
Will this ball live up to the hype? Well I will answer that with another question. How many balls actually livc up to the hype? Not many. The original Cell, the original Mission were probably two that did, but I can't think of too many more. And the real answer to that question will be left up to each bowler. It may live up to the hype for one bowler, but not another. All I can say at this point, from what I have seen, is if you are looking for a heavy oil ball, the Defiant is defiantely one you want to take a look at before making a purchase.
Jorge300
Post by: ithinkican on January 16, 2012, 10:28:26 AM
I have highly considered the defiant. I am suppose to be getting one shortly. I have been debating what layout i will use. I may go with something strong but more arc shaped with less snap. But ill make that final decision when it arrives. I think it will work fine for me. most equipment does. I just hope I can use it on multiple patterns like i use my virtual energy and cell
Post by: tloy on January 16, 2012, 03:05:40 PM
I got my Defiant drilled up late Sat evening and only got to throw 2 games on a burnt house shot. Ball is drilled 4x4 pin above ring finger. I did not shoot that great, 191, 218 but I could tell from the reaction and pin carry it definatly had potential. I went bowling with the family today and the house had a little more oil down. I only got to bowl 1 game but it was a 298 so I would have to say if your house puts down a med-heavy shot this will be a Great Ball. I will review this once I get to throw it in league but I like what I see so far.....BTW I am not a staffer( I would love to be) normally carry 210 average but am down quite a bit this year 195( for personal reasons job ect).
Todd Loy
Roto Grip King of Them All!!!!
Edited by tloy on 1/17/2012 at 11:03 AM
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on January 16, 2012, 03:25:17 PM
Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly.
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy
Post by: ithinkican on January 17, 2012, 08:45:04 AM
the whole lost its hook just tells me that the bowler isnt taking care of his bowling equipment properly, he didnt get it resurfaced the way it originally came, or he exposed it to acetone to long............... I usually chit chat back in forth with my pro shop man about the layout and then i decide after i get his feedback. we usually agree pretty often but there are times he thinks im crazy with some of the things that i come up with and to his surprise it usually works better that he thought...
Post by: jet0832 on January 17, 2012, 03:47:48 PM
I've got to say I've never seen a heavy oil ball with this much pop on the backend! I just threw mine for the first time last night on a 40' sport pattern on a pro anvillane surface and it was crazy. I started with my Nano pin under the bridge, mass bias near the thumb hand scuffed to 1000 abrlon. Towards the end of game 2 I switched to the Defiant pin above the bridge mass bias near the thumb at box finish. What a difference! Where the Nano was more rolly with a little pop on the end, the Defiant really got down the lane and went sideways! So much so that it didn't even last a game. I saw no burn, just more and more down lane reaction. It was pretty incredible. I don't think anyone will be dissappointed in what this ball will give up!
Joe Tremper
Post by: avabob on February 14, 2012, 06:42:09 PM
I had tremendous success with the Theory on longer patterns as they broke down. As a 280 rpm stroker, I am not use to getting super deep and watching a ball recover from 10 board with energy, but the Theory did just that. Only drawback was the shell tamed down quite a bit after 50--75 games.
I will try the Defiant simply because I think it is a tweaked Theory with a bit better push, but the same remarkable continuation. Theory was much better than my Nano, which didn't get the easy push unless a tweaked the cover.
Post by: ithinkican on February 14, 2012, 08:36:22 PM
I want to thank roto grip for such a great ball. I have a rev rate of nearly 400. I sanded this ball on 2000 then applied clean and dull to it. and i love it. oob this ball hooked far more thank my nano solid ever did. the continuation that this ball has is greater than my theories. and i love how this ball gives the user more of a hint as to when it is gonna start hooking up on you. i love it. roto grip has seriously out down itself this year
Post by: CPA on February 16, 2012, 06:47:20 AM
Last night I bowled against a guy using the Defiant. He made the ball look great. He shot 855. My observations. The ball has a hard arc. It is not a snap. Also there is little to no deflection when going through the pins. This was on a house shot that is on the easy side and not on a sport shot or flatter pattern.
USBC Silver Level Coach
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 16, 2012, 07:57:45 AM
Sounds a lot like an Invasion.
Heavy roll lots of predictability. Like that on the Left!
REgards,
Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Post by: tywithay on February 16, 2012, 08:19:48 AM
I agree totally. I feel like you could copy and paste all these reviews and just change the name to Invasion or Theory. It seems like the exact same thing in a different outfit.
Post by: Jesse James on February 16, 2012, 09:30:17 AM
I have the Theory and the Infinite Theory. Love those balls. Give a big, contiuous move downlane, with predictability. Now here's the crazy part. I hated the Invasion! Ended up giving it away to my Dad. Many of my friends, mostly right-handed, hated it as well! Biggest problem.....unpredictability! Check up one minute....then snap the next.
And yet, every left-hander that I've ever seen throw this ball, throw it like new found MONEY!! Go figure.
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.
Some days you're the bug; some days you're the windshield.
Post by: Jorge300 on February 16, 2012, 09:38:44 AM
I was going to post something similar to Jesse on this one. I haven't thrown an Invasion, but everyone I saw throw it had mixed feelings about it. They liked the balls motion but found it to be inconsistent. But everyone I saw throwing it was RH as well.
From what I have seen on the Defiant, it would satisfy what you are looking for LL. I pick mine up tonight actually. Just in time as we start Shark tonight in my PBAX league. So once I have thrown it a few weeks, I will post a full review.
Jorge300
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 16, 2012, 01:20:34 PM
Thanks for the ideas...
I have an Invasion I have thrown with someone else's fit. Very smooth for me, very predictable and lots of hook.
Sort of like like a smoothed out version of my No Mercy Beatn. Looks like an early league wet/dry star on the left. We'll see when drilled for my hand.
Have seen a straighty righty with a polished invasion own the world on a tough for some top hat, but not for him.
Strikes on the lines 10 to 10, 10 to 4 and 10 to 1 were seen. He made it sing....
Regards,
Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Post by: ithinkican on February 16, 2012, 10:56:30 PM
nothing like an invasion. way more predictable. more forgiving and a lot more pin reaction and a hell of a lot easier to make adjustments to. whether its carry down or burnt lanes. this ball is the best thing i have ever used.