BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Roto Grip => Topic started by: thewhiz on August 09, 2017, 04:37:31 PM
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Any idea how a hot cell will compare to a pitch black?
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It should be a bit stronger due to the asymmetrical core on the inside. Also, it'll probably get into a heavier roll based on what I've seen with the Cell line previously.
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Go to the RotoGrip website. Click on the Hot Cell in the ball drop down menu. Inside, you will see a review tile where Chris Schlemmer talked about the ball and what it is designed to do.
Sounds like it is supposed to give the lower rev guys who want to use urethane a way to shape a urethane ball like the strappers who use Pitch Blacks.
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I would be more interested if it was a very very mild reactive. Willing to bet most wont be able to tell much of a difference.
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>I would be more interested if it was a very very mild reactive
See Blue Hammer, or Fanatic BTU (and pearl). Not asym core I guess. Regardless have a strong feeling this is going to be my first Roto ball at some point. Just got my Red Razor (Fab Black Hammer otw) so have more urethanes (5) than time to throw them currently. First price drop all over it.
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Hello all,
I am really interested in this ball, as a mere mortal that wants urethane goodness, now that I have less hand than I did back when urethane was the thing we all used...like my old purple hammer.
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I just want to know when we will see a ball video of it.
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>I would be more interested if it was a very very mild reactive
See Blue Hammer, or Fanatic BTU (and pearl). Not asym core I guess. Regardless have a strong feeling this is going to be my first Roto ball at some point. Just got my Red Razor (Fab Black Hammer otw) so have more urethanes (5) than time to throw them currently. First price drop all over it.
Hello all,
I am really interested in this ball, as a mere mortal that wants urethane goodness, now that I have less hand than I did back when urethane was the thing we all used...like my old purple hammer.
Right, not an asym core in those. I had a storm barbed wire,weak resin cover and asym core. Ball was a freaking beast on the light or burnt. I had a desperado urethane with the strong asym core,ball was flat. I wonder what people think what the HC will do? I have a feeling they are in for a surprise IF it has a true urethane cover.
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>I would be more interested if it was a very very mild reactive
See Blue Hammer, or Fanatic BTU (and pearl). Not asym core I guess. Regardless have a strong feeling this is going to be my first Roto ball at some point. Just got my Red Razor (Fab Black Hammer otw) so have more urethanes (5) than time to throw them currently. First price drop all over it.
Hello all,
I am really interested in this ball, as a mere mortal that wants urethane goodness, now that I have less hand than I did back when urethane was the thing we all used...like my old purple hammer.
Right, not an asym core in those. I had a storm barbed wire,weak resin cover and asym core. Ball was a freaking beast on the light or burnt. I had a desperado urethane with the strong asym core,ball was flat. I wonder what people think what the HC will do? I have a feeling they are in for a surprise IF it has a true urethane cover.
Desert Ops is a light oil asym but not sure how weak it is. I actually want to get a pearl urethane before worrying about asym core. Yeah not sure anyone is going to be big on it at that price especially. Hard to pay $175 for a ball you can't use on anything heavier than house shot. It will probably carry better than any other urethane (although reserving judgment until I get this red razor punched out and can roll it) but people throwing urethane rely on accuracy which as you say might be a rude surprise for people who have never thrown urethane before and see their adult bumper not there to save them.
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my fav is still the original black hammer
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my fav is still the original black hammer
Mine's on the way. Took awhile to find a 15lb for a decent price in decent shape. Ended up having to go to 16 for the red razor. If I could have found a Genesis The Judge LE which is the old Black Hammer in all but name I would have paid $200 for a NIB 15lb. Already got myself an old Fab Burgundy Hammer and damned if the thing isn't nearly as strong as my Crow. Might actually be able to use even my black on some of the lighter house shots in the area.
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Sounds like a winner to me, HackJandy ;). I find myself interested in the Hot Cell for the chance of getting a urethane that can give a heavier roll and hit, and I really want to like this ball, but as someone aforementioned in this thread...that price point for a urethane seems steep...
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Yeah its a bit high but any of the new true urethane balls seems to cost at least $120. I think they are more expensive than many of the reactives to manufacture (reactives that cost more are recovering R&D or ball hasn't been out long). Another reason reactives dominate along with being higher scoring for most people on most conditions. I don't have a lot of hand and really shouldn't even be using urethane but damned if for some reason they aren't the balls I want to buy and throw every chance I get. Love how they roll and even how they smell. Sure I will end up buying this one too eventually.
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>I would be more interested if it was a very very mild reactive
See Blue Hammer, or Fanatic BTU (and pearl). Not asym core I guess. Regardless have a strong feeling this is going to be my first Roto ball at some point. Just got my Red Razor (Fab Black Hammer otw) so have more urethanes (5) than time to throw them currently. First price drop all over it.
Hello all,
I am really interested in this ball, as a mere mortal that wants urethane goodness, now that I have less hand than I did back when urethane was the thing we all used...like my old purple hammer.
Right, not an asym core in those. I had a storm barbed wire,weak resin cover and asym core. Ball was a freaking beast on the light or burnt. I had a desperado urethane with the strong asym core,ball was flat. I wonder what people think what the HC will do? I have a feeling they are in for a surprise IF it has a true urethane cover.
Desert Ops is a light oil asym but not sure how weak it is.
From watching my friend throw it and also testing it, I believe the Desert Ops can handle light oil at box with a weaker layout rather than strong. Also probably better to use a weaker hole or none at all. Using a p3 brought the ball strength up a bit and changing the surface makes an even greater difference. Still would like to experience s30 for light conditions.
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my fav is still the original black hammer
Shot my first ever 300 with one.
Still have it, still throw it, and shot a 745 series with it last season.
Under the right conditions, it's still hard to beat, and it turned 30 years old this year.
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Desert Ops with S70 is going to get down the lane some, but it's not for burn. S70 is just too strong. A weaker cover (S30 is nice) with more flare would work much better. Cover would ignore the friction up front more and the core would allow enough flare to not hit like dog crap.
That being said, I think the Desert is for shorter patterns where you want the hit of resin without it peeling off the spot. I'll be putting holes in mine soon.
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Just threw the hot cell. Very strong ball. Way stronger than the pitch black. Like 5 boards. I think you can get that in a weaker reactive ball.
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Curious to see a Hot Cell vs The Crow comparison. I am guessing its not actually much stronger on THS just carries better with that core. Just got done today throwing my Sumo for the first time. Wow was that ball strong especially as its one of the few I have with fingertip grips. That ball can be used on THS today (I do have a low grit on it also). It must have been damn near unusable at most houses when it came out 25 years ago. I am guessing its at least as strong as my Faball Burgundy Hammer if not stronger.
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BTM just posted their Hot Cell review. Boy stroker wasn't impressed. With hook rating they have it (44, they tend to rate about 2 to 4 points less than BJ) I still don't think its much stronger than The Crow but does probably have more backend and a bit more carry. The Crow is the same that it is better on medium than dry patterns. Maybe someone will do a comparison video sometime. That would rock as pretty much a hard pass for the Hot Cell for now due to being up to my eyeballs in urethane so I can't.
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BTM took down the Hot Cell review just a few minutes ago. I was looking at it earlier and now it's gone - weird.
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BTM just posted their Hot Cell review. Boy stroker wasn't impressed. With hook rating they have it (44, they tend to rate about 2 to 4 points less than BJ) I still don't think its much stronger than The Crow but does probably have more backend and a bit more carry. The Crow is the same that it is better on medium than dry patterns. Maybe someone will do a comparison video sometime. That would rock as pretty much a hard pass for the Hot Cell for now due to being up to my eyeballs in urethane so I can't.
We either read two completely different reviews, or one of us has a serious reading comprehension deficit. :o ;D
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You both read two completely different reviews. BTM changed the review they posted. Total hook for the Hot Cell went from 44 to 47.
FWIW, I have The Crow and it's total hook is comparable to the Track Tundra in terms of total boards crossed. In fact on the THS in my local house, The Crow may actually hook more than the Tundra. BTM gave the Tundra a 48 total hook rating and I believe The Crow would rate about the same. With that said, I believe the updated assessment of the Hot Cell is more in line with reality. They may have just made a mistake with the first one posted...
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You both read two completely different reviews. BTM changed the review they posted. Total hook for the Hot Cell went from 44 to 47.
FWIW, I have The Crow and it's total hook is comparable to the Track Tundra in terms of total boards crossed. In fact on the THS in my local house, The Crow may actually hook more than the Tundra. BTM gave the Tundra a 48 total hook rating and I believe The Crow would rate about the same. With that said, I believe the updated assessment of the Hot Cell is more in line with reality. They may have just made a mistake with the first one posted...
Or someone at Roto/Storm read the review and made a phone call asking "What the hell is wrong with you?!?"
Just to get a good conspiracy theory going... ;D
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Well the only thing it looked like they changed was the total hook. The other numbers are the same I believe and they kept the stroker ratings the same so will at least give them credit for that. I still believe this ball is best for 2handers. With their revs they don't need to worry as much about release inconsistency with a mass bias core.
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You both read two completely different reviews. BTM changed the review they posted. Total hook for the Hot Cell went from 44 to 47.
FWIW, I have The Crow and it's total hook is comparable to the Track Tundra in terms of total boards crossed. In fact on the THS in my local house, The Crow may actually hook more than the Tundra. BTM gave the Tundra a 48 total hook rating and I believe The Crow would rate about the same. With that said, I believe the updated assessment of the Hot Cell is more in line with reality. They may have just made a mistake with the first one posted...
Or someone at Roto/Storm read the review and made a phone call asking "What the hell is wrong with you?!?"
Just to get a good conspiracy theory going... ;D
😂😂
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I got a tank rampage and out of the box it carried real well. But now the coverstock has tamed down and my track marks are memorialized in which I'm just getting 9 counts. I'll play around with the surface and see what it does.
I have zero urethane experience. so I'm wondering if the Hot Cell would of been a better buy. My friend bought a Crow and rolled it new out of the box for pure carry and I couldn't carry if my life depended on it.
Yeah, with urethane I doubt it was the coverstock itself that tamed down as opposed to the surface. Bring the grit back down and the Rampage will probably go right back to what it was when your first threw it.
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Also with urethane don't be afraid of the lower grits as it needs them (surface friction is all you got). The surface is much different than usually softer reactives and can take it (sanded my old blue hammer by hand which took for ever to get even somewhat scratched, and then did my Burgundy Hammer reactive remake and in 30 seconds had reactive dust all over pants) . I sometimes even use a brown scotch brite which is like 240 grit on a few of mine. Go to Home Depot and get some maroon scotch brites (in painting section, equal to like 500 abralon) as they are cheap and really good for touching up the surface of urethanes from time to time by hand without risking taking too much off with a spinner over time. I touch up after every few sessions. 3000 box to 500 affects ball motion much less than with a reactive. It will just make it slightly earlier and a bit stronger. As far as carry that is the drawback to urethane and why they are condition specific for many people. I am betting that is even true with the Hot Cell. I still think that ball is made more to give 2 handers a wetter house option than to give one handers reactive carry. It won't be much better than your tank rampage (a few boards stronger, slightly better carry maybe) imo especially for the price. I throw urethane to practice and for fun but tend to throw reactives when I need to score due to being speed dominant and bowling mostly on modern synthetics with decent oil. For most people one urethane ball is plenty for their arsenal maybe two if get a pearl urethane also. Your choice was very solid and is better for the type of spotty conditions or short oil where urethane may be your best choice to score. Hot Cell is too much ball often in those cases.
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I finally got my Hot Cell this weekend. I've only had it a couple of days, but I've had a chance to throw it on 3 different conditions. I'm not a high rev player. In the 280-300 rpm range on average. Fluctuate between slightly speed dominant to slightly rev dominant depending on the day. 3 conditions I used it on: 3rd game on Athens - which never broke down all that much where I was playing, outside burn with carry down - on a bumper lane pair, and fresh house shot start to finish.
Going to be a long post. Feel free to skim and/or skip to the summary.
Athens
I'm coaching a junior classics league sunday mornings. We get to bowl with the kids. Scores don't count towards anything, but extra bowling on sport for me. This was second week on Athens. First week I played it more how it should play on paper. This week I found a better look closer to the gutter throwing a Show Off at 2000 + polish. Played about 7 to 4/5. Had some tug. Stayed behind the ball and firm with my speed.
PSO brought the Hot Cell out during second game after drilling it. Wanted to see me throw it. Even though my scores don't count, I was still bowling well. I finally left a washout in the 4th frame of game 3, so I figured why not? 5th frame left a 10 pin with the Hot Cell and missed the spare. Made an adjustment and threw mostly strikes. Finished with 190 after having 75 through 5.
Surprising things about the Hot Cell. I only had to move 1 board right off the Show Off line. I did not have to change my release. The ball picked up earlier than the Show Off. Most surprising was how it drove through the pins. Haven't seen that from a urethane ball except when I was throwing two handed.
Burn with Carry Down
My wife wanted me to help her before league last night. We got put on a lane with clear carry down. Her balls would start to hook and then back up into the pocket. I waited until she was done and then threw my Hot Cell. I did not notice any carry down affect the ball. Just thought maybe she burned through it. Then I tried my Black Hammer and Purple Hammer. I was wrong.
Both the Hammer balls did the same thing my wife's balls did. Hit that carry down and started to back up. I had to move right to get a good angle to strike. I went back to the Hot Cell and ended up 8 boards left of the Purple Hammer and 5 left of the Black Hammer. I could swing it or go right through the oil. Where the Hammer balls backed up through the carry down, the Hot Cell still continued on. It slowed down a bit, but made it through. I threw a bunch of strikes before leaving a 10 pin - and that was not the ball's fault. I got a little soft.
House Shot
I decided to just go urethane last night. A little bit of a risk. It's currently my highest average league at 209 and we were playing the first place team. Then again - it's just league (and fun mix league at that).
On the fresh, I did have to move a little more right. It's still urethane and needs earlier friction. It took me 3-4 frames to find the line on each lane, but then I rolled about 6 in a row. Again, I got a little soft on the 2nd in the 10th and failed to strike. Ended that game with a 247.
I ended up using the ball all night. The left lane was free hook outside after this. The right was a little tighter. I only shot 198 and 200 the last two, but it was more my fault than the ball's. The Hot Cell was still doing its job. Overall, I'm impressed enough that I may continue to throw it during league play - at least until the weather decides to steady itself and we get a more defined house shot.
Summary
So far, the Hot Cell has impressed me more than I thought it would. It worked well on all 3 conditions I've bowled on. I can imagine it will work well on most conditions outside of longer medium-heavy oil volume and extreme burn.
It's more continuous than any other urethane I've thrown. It handles more oil than any other urethane I've thrown. It hits harder than any other urethane I've thrown - it was sending messengers on light mixers, just like resin would. Yet it is still controllable like typical urethane.
My PSO also threw some shots after league last night and was impressed. And then one of the best bowlers in the area also threw it. You could tell he was having fun with it. All smiles. Has a lot more hand than I do. That core makes a huge difference. He tried throwing the Pitch Blue on a same line he came in high with the Hot Cell, and it went straight into the 3-6.
Is it worth its price point? For some, probably not. For me, yes. I might even buy another one and drill it stronger. I forgot to mention that I actually had mine drilled somewhat weak. My two Hammers are drilled stronger. As was my PSO's Pitch Blue that was used above.