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Author Topic: Rogue Spare Ball!  (Read 2422 times)

tomgriffin

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Rogue Spare Ball!
« on: March 28, 2009, 01:28:32 PM »
A buddy of mine recently got himself a 16# Rogue Cell to add to his arsenal of a HyRoad and an original Cell. The Hyroad and Cell are drilled similar to each other, with the pin to the right of the ring finger and the CG kicked out a bit on each. MB on both Cell is in the strong position. Both the Hyroad and the Cell hook a ton.

The new Rogue is drilled with the pin about an inch above the ring finger and the CG about an inch under the fingers kicked out just a tad. No weight hole - the driller instead drilled the fingers what seems like to the center of the ball.

Our problem is that this ball goes almost dead straight (and this guy is a high rev/high speed player). If he slows the ball to about 50% he can get it to the pocket, but his original Cell and Hyroad both hit no problem at full speed.

I know there are some folks that go back and forth on whether the Cell or the new Rogue hooks more - but this is just too big of a difference. Would the pin up above the fingers versus right of the ring finger contribute that greatly to the weakness of this piece? Or is there something else going on?

 

JustRico

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 09:35:20 PM »
Pin above fingers create length. Drilling the fingers abnormally deep eliminate core dynamics.
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tomgriffin

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 09:42:02 PM »
With the fingers around the pin, the weight would be taken out of the top half of the Cell core (before the mass cutouts on each side). Do you really thinking taking a few ounces out of a heavy core would modify the dynamics that much? That might be a question for a RotoGrip tech support staffer - but what do you think?


JustRico

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2009, 09:49:58 PM »
Sorry that I am not a Roto Grip support staffer but I'll give it a try.

Yes drilling into the core eliminates dynamics, as well as making the core taller, which increases the RG. A higher RG core creates length. And yes you are drilling directly into the mass of the core.

Hopefully that is sufficient, seeing that I'm not affiliated with Roto Grip and all.
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Formerly BrunsRico

Edited on 3/28/2009 10:08 PM
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

tomgriffin

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2009, 09:56:23 PM »
With the size of his span (and the assumption that his axis is straight over), I wouldn't be surprised if his pin to pap is in the area of six inches. I've never seen a spec call for anything north of 5.5. What would the impact of having the pin to pap over maxed?

Jakerev

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2009, 11:05:19 AM »
What would plugging the fingers,then redrilling to normal depth and going with a weight hole do,  any ideas........

HAMMERDOWN103

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2009, 10:27:00 PM »
With the cg close to the fingers you have two options: a high weight hole, or drilling the finger deeper. I prefer to drill the finger deeper because i dont like weight holes. I have this on a One Pearl and the ball still hooks a ton. In my opinion the high pin versus the pin right of fingers is the problem. And depending on his axis, it could be a huge length difference and with high speed and revs, the ball already wants to scoot...
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SVstar34

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 12:32:23 AM »
here is my Rogue:

http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/tt297/RiderRdDrt/?action=view¤t=SSPX0104.jpg&t=1238995674772

I cant get it to quit on the backend, i've thrown it for 5 games and I cant get it to rollout. It just keeps going and SHREDS the rack. I think its very possible that your driller made the fingers too deep and eliminated dynamics.
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Rogue Cell (coming soon)
Bounty(4.5 x 4.75 Fresh 1000 Abralon)
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Blue Vibe(5 x 5 4000 Abralon + Reacta Shine)


ronaldhjr

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 07:22:38 AM »
Sounds like you dont want the ball anymore I can buy the spare ball (Rogue Cell) from you at a spare ball price 20 or 30 bucks shipped.
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StormTech

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Re: Rogue Spare Ball!
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 10:43:56 AM »
To start, the Location of the Pin and the Mass Bias (Rg) may or may not be in an ideal location. In order to know for certain, I would need to know your friend's PAP. The best option would be to get the actual coordinates this ball was drilled on (Example, 4" x 4" with 1" Pin Buffer).

Without this information, I can't determine if the layout is the problem or if there is coverstock problem.

The major concern is the depth of the fingers in relation to the Pin. Does your friend have finger inserts? If he does have finger inserts and the holes are drilled extremely deep this close to the pin, there is a good chance that the shape of the weightblock has been drastically altered in a less than preferred way. Deep finger holes near the pin have the high tendency of dramatically reducing flare while creating a higher RG ball that has the tendency to lope down the lane instead of reading earlier enough to get into a good hook/roll phase.

The only easy option is to have the ball resurfaced to a 1000 grit abralon, no polish. This will get the ball to start up sooner, but it is still going to have less entry angle with a mild transition due to the location of the pin in relation to the deeper fingers.

Also, a balance hole in the positive thumb quadrant can offset some of the damage done by the fingers. The problem is I don’t know the statics weights so I can’t suggest where or how deep the balance hole can be. In this case, it would be better to have 1 oz of finger weight with a flare enhancing balance hole than zero static weight with a low flaring, late rolling layout (current).