Post by: Jeffrevs on January 16, 2005, 02:42:17 AM
Take a look at the arsenal that Roto Grip has right now...you can easily put together 3-4-5 and 6 ball arsenals with all of their equipment,....however....
WHAT ARE THEY MISSING ?! What would you like to see next ? Where is their biggest gap ? AND....most important....what TYPE of ball would benefit the MOST styles of bowlers in general ?!
Have at it folks........inquiring minds want to know !!
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JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: TheDude on January 16, 2005, 08:07:03 PM
they need another top fuel
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on January 16, 2005, 10:21:29 PM
quote:
High End solid with backend!! the rush is not it, it was hit or miss for many.
The Dude, wouldn't that be the Apocalypse???? Mine makes a hell of a turn.
But Jeff right now I see lack of a High performance pearl. Yes I know there is the RS-1, but the RG is so low it reacts a lot earlier than most pearls. I would like to see another ball like the SS pearl....long then SNAP!!!! I know that there is a new particle pearl coming out, but I think that the particle is gonna make the breakpoint a lot more smoother and continuous(not always a good thing)
BMM
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June 3, 2003 First 600 Series(208,258,170)!!!!!!
Post by: charlest on January 17, 2005, 04:54:55 AM
quote:
Personally I think their product line's very complete. If anything they seem to have too many "light oil" or "low end" balls but IMO they found a nice niche to exploit there in a crowded, confusing market and I can't blame them one bit for that.
Actually, they have a ton of what I'd call medium-light oil balls, which may barely edge into the area of light oil. Sonic Boom, Ultra & Super are just too strong to be useful on light to dry-ish lanes, without drqastic drillings, surface changes or release modifications.
I had spoken to Roger via email 6-8 months ago and he had indicated that RG was going to develop a replacement for the original Sonic-X, which was useful into the this dry/light area, but nothing ever came of it. We got stronger (SuperSonic) and Stronger (Ultra Sonic) balls.
RG seems to have just jumped on the band wagon of Brunswick, Storm, Columbia and AMF with these balls with huge backends and high RGs for all the fluffers out there: Super Scamp, Fear, Power Grooves, Pro Stocks and the like. At least Storm still has the Big Hit.
Post by: charlest on January 17, 2005, 05:02:08 AM
quote:
High End solid with backend!! the rush is not it, it was hit or miss for many.
they need another top fuel
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Dude,
I'm afraid I'd have to agree with bowlingmytmouse on this one. Take the Apocalypse from its 1500 grit polished box surface down to the Top Fuel's 1000 grit matte finish and you'll have one fairly strong ball.
Besides that the Retro Resurrection is not exactly weak (roughly equivalent to a Nemesis), nor is the Rush. My Rush has a pretty strong hook over all, even with a mild drilling (5.5x5) on a medium to medium-heavy oil pattern. If the Rush was hit or miss, maybe the drilling wasn't quite the right fit; the surface is very adaptable, although it can be very early on the wrong lane surface/oil pattern. It hit like a ton of bricks, when it's right.
Are you looking for something else or are your customers?
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 17, 2005, 09:43:42 AM
quote:
RG seems to have just jumped on the band wagon of Brunswick, Storm, Columbia and AMF with these balls with huge backends and high RGs for all the fluffers out there: Super Scamp, Fear, Power Grooves, Pro Stocks and the like. At least Storm still has the Big Hit.
And RG still has the Sonic X Solid at 2.60 and .020 diff...
--------------------
JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: TheDude on January 17, 2005, 10:44:54 AM
I.E. Hit or miss for us.
the Caly as it was fondly know to us was very good, but dull it was not popular, Anthony's died fast, and daniel's was mapped out for very strong angluar turn which it did( 5 1/2 from pap with cg 3 3/8 with balance hole 4 1/2 inches) this ball flipped very early and didn't stop in the backend.
a solid caly would be nice.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: TheDude on January 17, 2005, 10:46:45 AM
if you toughed the ball it had a little bit of surface to get some traction in the oil, and it was not too dull to burn out on the dry boards.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: charlest on January 17, 2005, 10:47:59 AM
quote:quote:
RG seems to have just jumped on the band wagon of Brunswick, Storm, Columbia and AMF with these balls with huge backends and high RGs for all the fluffers out there: Super Scamp, Fear, Power Grooves, Pro Stocks and the like. At least Storm still has the Big Hit.
And RG still has the Sonic X Solid at 2.60 and .020 diff...
--------------------
JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Jeff,
don't you remember I tried that ball? I sanded it to 1500 grit, then put a high gloss polish on it; then drilled it pin above the ring finger. Still hooked too early. These are really old wood lanes. I needed a pearl. Even had to change my release to a suitcase. Can't cross too many boards either. STraight trajectory is needed. The only ball I can use so far with my normal release is a pearlized urethane. WIth the suitcase, another brand's mildest resin pearl, drilled very mild has worked.
Roger has said a new mild ball for these type of conditions is coming. I have patience. Hell, I may even try the Sonic Boom; who knows. I'm the adventuresome type, ..., with bowling balls, anyway.
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 18, 2005, 05:01:05 AM
the Boom may be ok...it's not that much different in the diff department....20 vs. .029 ...it may be worth a try...
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JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 18, 2005, 06:34:25 AM
I know that I'd like see drop the Sonic Solid,....and add a ball that is for drier lanes than that,....say,....a urethane pearl w/ the Retro/Streak core in it ?!
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JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: D McLaughlin on January 18, 2005, 08:50:13 AM
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Umm....Walter Ray....its customary to hand over your wallet AFTER I beat you. Its not like we haven't been through this a hundred times.
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 18, 2005, 08:52:03 AM
quote:
A Pearlized Rush....that was easy! Pearlize that Hemi core baby!
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Umm....Walter Ray....its customary to hand over your wallet AFTER I beat you. Its not like we haven't been through this a hundred times.
and change the core just a bit for a bigger backend...but just a tiny bit
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JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: DP3 on January 18, 2005, 09:10:47 AM
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-DP3
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 18, 2005, 09:23:03 AM
obviously...that's what the RD is there for....but this , however, is an "INTEREST" post for Roto fans and others.....ideas of what is needed in their "fleet" or otherwise.....
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JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: DP3 on January 18, 2005, 09:37:19 AM
....back to my Hammer and Beezwick boards
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-DP3
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 18, 2005, 09:39:30 AM
Please....if you have ideas let them rip!
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JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: Krumpy300 on January 18, 2005, 10:18:54 AM
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Repetition is everything..
Post by: DP3 on January 18, 2005, 10:22:35 AM
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-DP3
Post by: Krumpy300 on January 18, 2005, 10:28:46 AM
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Repetition is everything..
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 18, 2005, 10:48:03 AM
quote:
I'd like to see a nice control ball with an aggressive cover and a low diff. Similar to the Tour Power.
The Sonic Boom or Super/Ultra Sonic core w/ the Rush cover?! very nice! Good idea DP!!
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JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Edited on 1/18/2005 11:48 AM
Post by: loose5682 on January 18, 2005, 10:54:56 AM
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Andrew Loose
"King of Them All"
"Evolutionary. Revolutionary."
Post by: Jeffrevs on January 18, 2005, 11:04:42 AM
quote:
Is it possible Jeff that the Rush cover might be too strong?? I haven't thrown one, but that ball seemed real hit-or-miss...wasn't sure if it was the core or the cover. The Rush had a "Posi-Trac Solid" cover, probably somewhat strong...how about the Sure-Grip reactive cover (Silver Streak Solid, Retro Res)? Seems a little more controllable, not so strong?
Quite possible Andrew....the only thing I see is that people who found the Rush hit or miss werent' using it on the right condition, at the right grit. I found that I had to keep her scuffed pretty regualarly and would get a MUCH better reaction that way.......I do it with a grey pad ...wet, trying to keep a fresh 800-1000 smooth on it at all times....
YES>....maybe.....the Retro res cover in the Boom core would be better....who knows.......good idea! Thanks.....
--------------------
JEFF
I think I'm finally starting to catch on.....
Proud FCC!
Post by: Nollster on January 18, 2005, 11:23:26 AM
quote:I don't think it's too strong -- just right for when conditions call for it. Last week, something was whack during league -- my Apoc was just not making it back to the pocket. Pulled out my Rush and just started pounding the pocket until my thumb swelled too much to use it anymore. So, no, I wouldn't say too strong -- maybe stronger than what most people normally need. As far as what they're missing, I don't know...They added a spare ball and a particle pearl (too bad a just bought an Eraser PP!) -- I'd jump on the lighter pearl bandwagon (love my Sonic X). Is a strongly assymetrical core a necessity these days??
Is it possible Jeff that the Rush cover might be too strong?? I haven't thrown one, but that ball seemed real hit-or-miss...wasn't sure if it was the core or the cover. The Rush had a "Posi-Trac Solid" cover, probably somewhat strong...how about the Sure-Grip reactive cover (Silver Streak Solid, Retro Res)? Seems a little more controllable, not so strong?
Post by: loose5682 on January 18, 2005, 11:53:14 AM
--------------------
Andrew Loose
"King of Them All"
"Evolutionary. Revolutionary."
Post by: Jeffrevs on February 01, 2005, 09:17:01 AM
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JEFF
"what, by the time I get back..they won't be dead anymore ?.
Post by: DP3 on February 01, 2005, 09:39:20 AM
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-DP3
Post by: Jeffrevs on February 01, 2005, 09:47:29 AM
quote:
Jeez, hook at your feet....keep going left(or right)
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-DP3
a urethane ball w/ those core combos...on todays oil ? ......cover is 70%+ reaction.....I'm not sure about your statement DP...
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JEFF
"what, by the time I get back..they won't be dead anymore ?.
Post by: DP3 on February 01, 2005, 10:25:38 AM
I think alot of times you and I have conflicting views on roto equipment and other equipment based on geographical issues. You're midwest, I'm far east coast/mid-northern atlantic. On this side of the country not much has changed lane condition wise since the mid 90s. There are still alot of bad/older surfaces and the modern oils just can't cover up the flaws in the many centers with poor surfaces and temperature problems. The only thing new is maybe a little more volume in the heads so the particles and pourous reactives don't tear up the condition so quick. It's something that most bowlers cannot understand unless you experience it. In the summertime in a center that doesn't keep the A/C around 68-72 degrees the east coast humidity seeps inside and can blow out a shot in as little as 15-20 minutes depending on how people play the lanes. Due to the humidity and lighter volumes of oil in the area early roll and early flare is a big overkill out here on most of the conditions. Since I've spent the majority of my short career(only 9yrs) bowling up and down the east coast and never getting as far west as St. Louis I can only give a view on what I see in our region and when I travel to tournaments, and collegiate tournaments and experience.
From an industry standpoint it doesn't seem like many of these ideas would go over or sell well. Yeah the post is all in fun and everything but most bowlers want what is not availible and it's not availible for a reason. Urethane days are over and there's not much use for it other than entry level equipment. The Pure Hammer, Track Magic, and Thunder Flash are excellent balls but too condition specific for the average bowler that just wants a new ball to use on the THS, and those are the people that make up the majority of sales.
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-DP3
Post by: Jeffrevs on February 01, 2005, 10:33:08 AM
the post is about what would be welcomed in the Roto Grip line...something they need, a gap filler,...something they're missing that would be useful.
You came up w/ a good idea earlier in the thread,...a control ball, but quite frankly, they don't go over very well either....unfortunatley...
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JEFF
"what, by the time I get back..they won't be dead anymore ?.
Post by: DP3 on February 01, 2005, 12:35:23 PM
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-DP3
Post by: Jeffrevs on February 01, 2005, 12:37:41 PM
quote:
Yeah.... people just want skid-flip...long and strong...every ball to get down the lane with alot of backend. Being a pro shop associate it's hard to tell customers what they need, instead you have to sell them what they demand.
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-DP3
I can see that happening for sure!! They think the more hook the better! [rolleyes]
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JEFF
"what, by the time I get back..they won't be dead anymore ?.
Post by: bowlerguy22 on February 01, 2005, 05:13:42 PM