win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......  (Read 10212 times)

pchee2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
......does NOT come close to its intended reactions on their given lane conditions.  Balls I've thrown are silver streak solid and pearl, global assault, assault pearl, sonic x and retro blue.

Everyone knows what I think of the SSP and the Retro blue, but recently I threw 3 sonics all drilled differently and on med-dry it does not get an 8 for length and a 6 for backend like the web site says.  Its actually more aggressive than many of my other balls.  Will roll up early and hard on med-dry.  On this condition I give it 3 for length and an 8 for backend.


I like Roto stuff but I am in the dark if I were to guess what their reactions would be prior to throwing them.  The ball that has been closest to what they rate is the Assault Pearl but other than that all the other have been way off.  Good or bad?  I dunno.  They are good balls so maybe they are just "misstated."


--------------------
pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

Edited on 4/23/2003 9:01 PM

 

HamPster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5584
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2003, 09:32:07 PM »
Lol, you ought to check out Brunswick's ratings, ESPECIALLY on the Power Grooves.  Them suckers hook like a son of a canine.  And it's not just one ball or one drilling, I know about 10 people with 10 different drillings, and the ball flat out HOOKS for all of them.  Dry lanes my donkey, my boss has one and his is as aggressive as his Cherry Bomb, this kid I know has one and it out hooks his Trauma ER, it's friggin crazy!  Not to mention the Purple Fuze, it out hooked everything I had before I tried to kill it.
--------------------
This post is A+ Hamster certified!

Kung Fu Hamster X, Jujitsu Guinea Pig, or Legend of Drunken Ferret?  New names still being pondered . . .

pchee2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2003, 10:32:24 PM »
All balls are drilled with standard pchee layout, everything on centerline with pin above fingers.  This is about a 5 3/4 * 5 1/4 drilling for me.  

If you think the inferno has a lot of core and wanted the SSP to replace it because the inferno has too much core, all I can say is HA HA HA HA HO HO HO HO HE HE HE HE!  

I've had a sonic for a month and I don't care for it so I'll probably dump it soon.  I don't match up with it and its far too aggressive on med-dry.  I threw it this past weekend on at a few different houses where komike, Nicanor, CB and pooter boof all witnessed its aggressiveness.  They can vouge for anything I say about it.  






--------------------
pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!



Edited on 4/23/2003 10:39 PM

pchee2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2003, 10:46:33 PM »
Regarding the SSP, just make sure you have a good chiropractor to fix your neck.  This ball is kinda like watching a tennis match.  Head goes one way looking at the ball only to violently jerk in the opposite direction trying to follow said ball after ball changes direction.  After a few repetitions neck gets sore.

Funny thing.  I started seeing my chiropractor after throwing Roto Grip stuff.  Chiro suggested I stop throwing Roto because its hard on the neck.  I stopped throwing Roto.  Still to this day I have to see the Chiro.  The after effects of Roto lingers on and on and on........ Chiro bill goes up and up and up.   Roto is hard on the neck, which leads it to being hard on the wallet and making your Chiro rich.




--------------------
pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!



Edited on 4/23/2003 11:06 PM

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6677
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2003, 12:36:51 AM »
Hopefully I'll get my Silver Streak Pearl drilled up over the weekend.  I like strong pearls, let's see how much oil it can handle.  It couldn't make Nicanor look like a cranker.  How about me?
--------------------
Strider
Penn State Proud
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say.

Doc Hollywood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1177
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2003, 06:50:10 AM »
As pchee's chiro I can say that soon enough i can buy all the arsenals I want from him whiplashing his neck all about trying to watch the SSP.

Cha Ching
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.attbi.com/~docsmagic/

Leftyhi-trak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2288
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2003, 06:55:22 AM »
pchee,

With the speed you throw why not put pin under fingers which will promote more stability or get the core to stand earlier by kicking cg closer to PAP. Hope its just you on the Sonic. I just picked one up for nationals and punching it up for length and decent flair.

LHT

Wilbert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 587
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2003, 07:04:06 AM »
To those who reads  Pchee reviews on any ball, you have to consider he put "manly" cranker type revs on the ball.

Mustang Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2003, 07:41:53 AM »
Thanks Wilbert I think I was about to strangle Pechee.  To all the above posts please realize that all hook ratings are set for the average bowlers with medium speed and medium revs.  When you have a lot of speed and a lot of revs as pchee as proclaimed then of course a ball like the SS pearl which is meant for most medium conditions is going to be more of a heavy oil ball for you.  YOU are the kind of person who doesn't ever need to drill a particle ball in his life.  You can get early roll out of anything.  So to any of the people who read this topic please don't be swayed by his opinion because it means nothing to how you should drill the equipment.  By the way with the release of some new balls we have changed our hook rating to a (20 scale) to give you a better understanding of the differences of where and when these balls hook compared to others in the line.  Refer to the Roto Grip website when we get the new one up.  

Lets give Pchee an example

Player # 1 low speed low revs
Player # 2 medium speed medium revs
Player # 3 high speed high revs

There are definitely more scenarios then this, but lets keep it simple.  

all bowling on a medium condition using a silver streak pearl for instance!

player # 1 might be able to get a good reaction out of a 5x2 layout, but still this ball might not store enough enery no matter how you lay it out because of his speed.  It will be a better ball for this guy on med-heavy  

player # 2 is the "average bowler" and will get the best use out of this ball and has many different drilling options

player # 3 is going to use a ball like this on heavier patterns because his speed and massive revs gets the ball into a lot of early friction off the oil and will get its best reaction when there are some longer patterns.  Where on medium patterns off the oil it is going to roll more than hook because of friction and the distance from the head pin to the end of the oil is to long and the breakpoint is to early.  

so pchee do you honestly think that all 3 of those bowlers can go off of the same recommendations from the tech data?  NO...the whole point of the system is for the bowlers to understand better what this ball will do before they drill it.  If they aren't the "average bowler" they know to look at it different.  And if they don't they ask me!  

So stop miss-leading people pchee
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.


Edited on 4/24/2003 7:57 AM
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

Doc Hollywood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1177
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2003, 05:25:05 PM »
I can tell you that I am no where near what pchee throws in the way of speed and revs.

I can say from watching the ball and from throwing the Sonic X that it is not really a dry lane ball.

For me it rolls alot like my savage pearl. A little longer but more backend.

It does not like any carry down at all and overall the savage pearl is better for carry down.  The Sonic X needs head oil as well otherwise irt starts to move early.

It would be a good ball for a fresh shot with strong backends.  I think that it is very condition specific.

As to the SSP it is very angular and is good medium ball.  It needs head oil as well and can handle some carry down.
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.attbi.com/~docsmagic/

pchee2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2003, 06:37:12 PM »
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=26261&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5

Check out the above post where another user why I do not know said the same thing about the sonic as I did.  In fact he rates the sonic for low rev players not medium players.  And he said a little bit of hand, not pchee hand with manly revs.  

Roto is misleading people by saying these ratings for for medium players and if you say that these ratings are accurate then you also mislead people.  If you think I am basing my reviews on my normal style you are dead wrong.  I never do that to any ball.  I threw these balls with all different types of releases many of which were average player releases and much more involved than your player 1, 2 and 3.  In fact I threw these balls a lot with pure fluffer releases.  I tilted them, changed rotation from 10-90, played in oil, light, dry, everywhere from 1 board down and in (like the obese JeffNoRevs) to lofting over both gutters with a set down point of 39 board and breakpoint of 5 board.  Still these Roto's are much stronger than their ratings.  IS this good or bad?  Like I said I don't know.  But I, unlike many butt kissers and brown nosers, I will call the shots like I see it without misleading anyone.  So to all you that base your selection on Roto's ratings, you should take into account that Roto's ratings are largely incorrect.  

When Nicanor comes back from vacation he will tell you the same.  Nicanor is an average player in terms of speed and revs.  The only thing he will say differently is that when I threw the SSP the first night it did not snap.  Well that was because the heads and mids were too dry for it so it burned up and lost too much energy to snap on the back.  But the last night we bowled there was plenty of oil up front and the SSP snapped like a bat outta hell.  Other than that, he will tell you about the Sonic being incorrectly rated by Roto.  Even with his normal game the Sonic still needs PLENTY of oil up front.  That is not the meaning of a med-dry ball.  

Doc Hollywood threw my sonic today and even though he couldn't throw it well because our spans are completely different (he lost a lot of revs but threw his normal speed), the sonic was more aggressive than his Buzzsaw XL and stronger than his Savage pearl off the dry, yet weaker in carrydown and more skiddy on oil upfront.  

I'll give credit where its due and that is hitting and carrying power of Roto stuff.  They all hit and carry much better other companies I've thrown.  

If komike sees this post he'll verify everything as well and maybe give you some of his opinions.  Its not just me Roger there are a lot of people that feel the same way so there is no need to get so defensive.  I truly feel your rating system misleads people.  And no this is not a conspiracy against Roto.  I like a lot of Roto balls like the silver streak solid, SSP, Assault Pearl and Retro Blue.  I just call the shots like I see it and I shoot straight from the hip without sugar coating.


Roto Ratings<~~~was it just another honest "misteak" or is their average player based on the women's senior leagues.



--------------------
pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

pchee2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2003, 10:29:59 PM »
LeftyHi,

I track high so I don't place pins below fingers especially on low flaring balls like the Sonic because I would have thumped the holes.  I didn't want early roll on it I got it for length so that is why I didn't kick cg out.  I got it for light and its more aggressive than I thought so I'm glad I didn't put pin under fingers and/or kick cg out because it would have been even more aggressive.  I do like the shape of the backend which is a nice arc, but I'm greatly dissapointed with its length on light and especially disappointed with its need for good head oil and midlane oil.

I found that the best release for this ball was lower revs and slower speed, which is similar to what the user in my previous post found.  Best lane condition was a pronounced med to med-lighter (but more on the medium side) oil block with good oil up front and in the mids and dry outsides and clean backends, and no longer than a 36 foot pattern.   This condition will give you the most room for error.  The Sonic was terrible for choppy or spotty conditions and terrible on drier (not dry) heads and mids.  


--------------------
pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

Edited on 4/24/2003 10:45 PM

Jeffrevs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11890
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2003, 05:46:21 AM »
quote:
I tilted them, changed rotation from 10-90, played in oil, light, dry, everywhere from 1 board down and in (like the obese JeffNoRevs) to lofting over both gutters with a set down point of 39 board and breakpoint of 5 board.  


Just can't get enough of this can you ?
--------------------
Jeff

Mustang Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2003, 09:32:38 AM »
Maybe we should just hire pchee2 since he seems to know it all.  Again pchee2 there are 55 + million bowlers in this country and they all don't throw the ball like you.  I don't care how you throw it your game is different than many others.  I am glad you want to tell it how it is FOR YOU.  We can't PLEASE everyone and it seems like I can't please you.  All I can say to everyone is I will try harder to make the charts and ratings more accurate for different bowlers/styles.  Just to inform everyone so they understand where I am coming from...Up until July of last year Roto Grip was a ONE man company based at Storm.  Yes that means 1 man who was on the road trying to sell balls/trade shows and do R/D at the same time to release balls into the market.  Now that I am in the office (as of July 2002) I do a lot of the things that Storm use to do for us.  (Operations, invoicing, technical, etc...)  We are now started to completely branch away from Storm.  We don't have near the resources Columbia, Ebonite, Storm, etc.. has.  So with that said I think we do A DAMN good job for 3 people (Hank Boomershine, Dan Smith, Roger Noordhoek)!  We are continuing to grow and I don't expect us to be the best overnight and yes maybe we need to do some different things.  But hey no need to go bashing, because no matter how you say you are just trying to tell it how it is.  You are bashing.  I can take criticism all day long, but criticism doesn't do anybody any good unless it follows with suggestions.  How can you criticize and then have nothing to back it up with.  And I will say it again you are you and there are millions of other bowlers out there who are nothing like you.  I am only one man!  If you want to criticize stop doing it on this forum and why don't you call me so we can have a nice long talk.  

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

komike

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2003, 09:52:39 AM »
I agree with Pchee....the ratings are very misleading...everything is a lot stronger than advertised...this is not really all that bad since its better than being weaker than advertised...but it is better to know that if you buy a Sonic X for dry that its going be a dry lane ball...most of Pchee's stuff is Roto so he is in no way knocking the company's equipment just the rating scale is a little off..I like Roto stuff too...im getting my first one today (Assault Pearl)...and im sure it wont be the last...Since you are changing your rating scale maybe they will be a little more accurate.....as far as the Sonic X goes....it is far from a dry lane ball...I would say it is more a med. to med. light ball..the SSP is a lot stronger than advertised and I could probably use it on med. to med.heavy with all its backend...

Edited on 4/25/2003 10:08 AM