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Author Topic: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......  (Read 10214 times)

pchee2

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......does NOT come close to its intended reactions on their given lane conditions.  Balls I've thrown are silver streak solid and pearl, global assault, assault pearl, sonic x and retro blue.

Everyone knows what I think of the SSP and the Retro blue, but recently I threw 3 sonics all drilled differently and on med-dry it does not get an 8 for length and a 6 for backend like the web site says.  Its actually more aggressive than many of my other balls.  Will roll up early and hard on med-dry.  On this condition I give it 3 for length and an 8 for backend.


I like Roto stuff but I am in the dark if I were to guess what their reactions would be prior to throwing them.  The ball that has been closest to what they rate is the Assault Pearl but other than that all the other have been way off.  Good or bad?  I dunno.  They are good balls so maybe they are just "misstated."


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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

Edited on 4/23/2003 9:01 PM

 

Mustang Guy

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2003, 11:32:03 AM »
You are very right Presto...and what I have been trying to say is this is getting waaaay out of hand.  I don't disagree with that at all and I do realize that my last post was contradicting in saying do you always have to have the last word.  But how can I agree with someone who wants to keep insulting me.  You are wrong in saying if he told me 2+2=4 that i would say he is wrong .  I would very much agree with him.  No doubt 2+2=4, but regarding your question about the Sonic I am sorry I didn't reply back to you.  Possibly another topic would have been the best way to go, because I am trying to deal with the situation at hand right now.  It is a lot easier to call me and that is what I tell everyone, because I don't have a lot of time during the day to get on here.  I am usually pretty busy and the phone is the best way to get ahold of me for immediate questions (888-450-6920).  The Sonic X handles most lighter oil to drier conditions.  If you are getting to much turn off the dry I would suggest then going with a 3 piece reactive.  This ball is still a 2 piece design and no matter what will bump the dry hard.  That is why the ball is designed to have a low flare potential, because we realize on drier conditions the ball is going to make a hard turn due to flying backends.  Answer...if you are getting good length out of it and want to just try to get it to lay down on the backend a bit just place a large hole on your pap and take it down to 1/2 ounce negative side weight.  See what that gives you.  Aside from everything else...I have nothing more to say about this topic, EXCEPT that I come on here daily more than anyone from any other ball company to inform bowlers of our products and be here if they have questions about it.  I am here and I am always willing to answer questions about ANYTHING!  I don't just talk about my equipment I help and monitor all other equipment forums when I can.  So all I ask is don't crucify me, be nice and I am more than willing to always help.

Also,

I could have asked to shut this topic down a long time ago, but I never once asked because I wanted to hear everything even though it was getting out of hand.  I am sure that has to count for something.  

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

Mustang Guy

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2003, 01:13:30 PM »
You are right 100% presto, it is unfortunate people use these open forums to fight back and forth.  I am surprised this wasn't stopped long ago, but I guess no one felt the need to jump in and stop it.  Just got worse and worse.  Again I apologize for my actions, but things got personal.

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

JOE FALCO

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2003, 03:13:15 PM »
Roger .. want you to meet Patrick .. nicest guy in the world. Patrick .. this is Roger .. he works for Roto Grip. I know you two guys will get along fine once you get to know one another.

I hope both of you continue to help us poor bowlers out .. there is a lot that both of you know that will help most of us .. don't either of you give up on US!

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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E  F A L C O
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

Mustang Guy

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2003, 04:35:41 PM »

--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

Doc Hollywood

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2003, 07:55:57 PM »
Not to take sides but I have a Retro blue and it is much stronger then the charts reveal.

I have been contemplating getting a Sonic X and have messaged Roger about it.  I was hesitant to get one because of how strong the back ends of these roto grip balls.

I had the chance to throw several of these balls drilled to the specs Roger had mentioned to me and other drills as well.

I am glad I got the chance to do that before buying one.  This ball is very strong and I would consider this to be a medium oil ball that needs dry back ends and plenty of head oil.

It compares very closely to my Ebonite Savage Pearl.  Except that it rolls earlier and heavier.  It tends to be condition specific. It needs head oil and doesn't do well with carry down.

I am not knocking Rotogrip products as I like they way they hit.  The charts are just not that realistic.


--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.attbi.com/~docsmagic/

pchee2

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I personally and whole heartedly believe that this post is the most productive roto post ever on BR.  All those other type of posts "Mustang guy what's next", "How do I drill my silver streak?", "Should I sand my ball?" are the most boring posts I've seen.  All those posts are good cures for insomnia.  In contrast, this post is one that gives Roto actual feedback from their customers and this is the first of its kind with so many responses.  Furthermore, we got to see how Roger's personality really is on a personal level.  Lets get a few things straight without making presumptions.  I'll keep my list to a max of 10:

1.  I do miss Clutch

2.  Putting you down does not make me feel better, although it may make me laugh a whole lot.

3.  My ego does not get offended here on BR or anywhere online.  It may get frustrated because time and time again I have stated that bowlers are NOT the sharpest tools in the shed and yet bowlers still prove that theory is correct.

4.  I think presto should go away because he is annoying.  

5.  This post was in no way personal to me.  I tried to drive a point home but I know that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

6.  I think its pretty cool that you come here as a representative of Roto to help people out, but I don't think its cool that you have to state it several times as if you want kudos and recognition for it.

7.  There is nothing wrong with fighting back and forth its rather enjoyable and many things can be learned from the disputes/conversations.  

8.  I didn't call you and my reasons were stated very clearly in a previous reply so I am not going to repeat them.  It had nothing to do with respect.  In fact you have my email address so you could have contacted me too.  However, my objective was not to talk with you my objective was to find out other people's opinions on Roto's charts.  You weren't even a part of the initial equation.  

9.   Michelle is yummy!

10.  presto needs to go away because he's annoying.


SrKegler you sly old dog trying to get some comps.  LOL.  I do know what you mean by bowlers not wanting to buy something weak.  They always seem to want something super strong then they drill it max lev.  Ughhhhh!  Yeah I know that hook sells.  More hook more hook its exactly what bowlers need, or what they think they need.  

CYR how did you drill your stuff?  Curious to see how it acts in the hands of a semi-manly man with semi-manly revs and hog heaven CPL's on the prowl.  I had a blaze and it was very aggressive and very angular.  It would make a left turn on a dime.






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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

Edited on 5/1/2003 3:09 AM

LuckyLefty

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Mustang guy,

Roto grip stuff really is good but strong!

It is great that you come to this forum to help and I certainly enjoy it as do others, don't stop.

Pchee2 is a great guy but likes to get people's goat's, don't fall for it.
Learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff with this intelligent jokester.
Much is delivered with a wink of the eye.  "you offered me a job...."

Keep up the good work, keep on giving us the scoop on Rotogrip, it is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Luckylefty
PS if you keep following along on this post you will soon have to rate how many CPL's and SPL's each Roto ball generates!

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Nicanor

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I think this is a great discussion.  I wish we developed more post just like this with other companies.  We use to get some from Ebonite and a little from others, but they slowed down.

A while back when the Super Power Pearl and the Retro Blue came out I asked around what ball has the most/strongest backend reaction and both the Retro Blue and the Super Power Pearl were brought up in conversation together.  I personnaly feel that both Storm and Roto Grip develop very angular equipment even to date.  The Assualt Pearl wsn't near so angular, but I thought the best ball Roto Grip developed to date IMHO.  The Silver Streaks are also advertised as being very angular.  There is nothing wrong with that.  They are what they are, very strong bowling balls.  No need to defend anything else.  What the Roto Grip ball charts are Roto Grips, compare them to each other, not Lane 1, Brunswick or Ebonite.  Now there's a company with bad customer service.  I like the debates that Pchee2 starts, but thats because I know him personally and his is a great guy. Roger seems to be a fine young man that is way too sensative and needs to let things roll off his neck.  No one would think him a weaker person.

Roto Grip has outstanding bowling balls.  Alomst something for everyone.  You don't need to corner the market on every type model series of bowling balls.


THE SONIC X IS NOT A DRY LANE BALL.  Even for someone that throws the ball as weak as I do.  Some bowlers can throw any ball and make it look weak, its all in the release.  I seen this at the US Open.  But to us mortal humans, its not a dry lane ball, but could act as a great short oil strong back ends swing ball IMHO.

These type of post do not need to end.  It adds life to Ballreviews without all the name calling and swearing

V/R,
Nicanor
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Nicanor

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I think its great that Mustang Guy, Roger, logged on under a different screen name, Presto, so that he can continue with posting without looking like he's caving into the truth of Pchee2's post.  I mean really, over 2200 post for one subject under a small subject company like Roto Grip.  Presto, I mean Roger, you should pay Pchee2 for all the advertisement.  Clump didn't do this well for Lane 1.

V/R,
Nicanor
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Nicanor (Fullfills California women's desires, then put out their fires)

Edited on 5/1/2003 2:16 PM
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Mustang Guy

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Verry funny Nicanor.  I have no idea who Presto is and have no need to make up other SN's.  I think presto is trying to be mr mediator and nothing more.  He has emailed me on several occasions regarding mine and Pchee's actions.  

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

Doc Hollywood

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Too funny Nicanor.

But it sounds awefully fishy that Roger may very well be Presto.

Can you pull a rabbit out of the hat?

And for my next trick.......
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.attbi.com/~docsmagic/

Nicanor

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All this ball charts about Roto Grip made me pull out my old Roto Grip Blue pearl and test it against the Silver Streak pearl, Threat, Cherry Bomb, Smash/R and the Lane 1 XL. All bowling balls were drilled similar but not the same.

The lane conditions were wood, morning senior oil about 12 hours old and one senior league already done.  So the outsides were very dry shorter oil and the back ends very strong.  I should have bought the Sonic X also, it usually works well on this condition.

The Threat handled this condition best for me standing 32 swinging through 17 to about 8 and back.  Not flippy, but strong and carried very well.

Silver Streak Pearl, I had to move one board left to 33 playing around 17/18 out to 8 and back.  Stronger backend movement then the Threat, but that was extected.

Then I tried the Blue pearl.  Both the Threat and SSP were in box condition, but several months ago, I took some polish off the Blue pearl to give me a better read.  Had to move three boards right, plat 15/16 out to 8 (the break point I was playing) and the ball read the lane very well and arced to the pocket with great control, but still strong, not as strong as the other two, but that was expected since it wasn't polished. But the ball ws strong, had great carry.

Smash/R seemd to roll out with these conditions.  There was no comparison.  Smash/R hit flat unless I really kept the speed up.

Cherry Bomb, Just too much ball.  never quit but very hard to keep right of the head pin.

Lane 1 XL, The dry lanes gave the XL all the help it needed.  I could move a litle further right, not have to swing the ball near as much and it saved enmough energy to carry the pocket.

All in all, I think the Threat and the SSP wsa the better ball (of the ones I had with me) for this condition.  The SSP has plenty of core/weightblock power to carry the pocket.

This was just my observation without looking at ball charts.  Who cares about ball charts, they are just advertisement gimmicks.

V/R,
Nicanor

Edited on 5/1/2003 9:01 PM
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Strider

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So, according to Nicanor's last post, the Silver Streak Pearl and Blue Roto are weaker than the Threat.  The Threat is listed as a medium oil ball on Track's website.  Threat's hook is 27/20, medium oil, Freak Out and Crunch = 28/22, medium with carrydown.  Sounds like the Roto's are medium to med/light oil balls in Nicanor's hands.  Nic then says the Sonic X usually works well on this dryer condition.  Maybe not a true dry lane ball, but still good for lighter conditions.  Everyone has a different definition of dry, so what works well for one won't work well for another.  Most people that I know use 3 piece urethane or plastic on what I call dry.

I don't have a Sonic X, but I did just drill up a Silver Streak Pearl.  It's a little stronger than my Nighthawk M2, but I'd say it's description is pretty accurate.  It is very angular (pin 5" from PAP, ~2" over my ring finger, cg just a little right, putting the mb in the strong position 2" right of my thumb), but that what I was looking for.  It would be scary snappy in the hands of a cranker.  The SSP helped me out today.  The lanes were very dry on the outside.  Even my Blue Hot flame wanted to hook early.  I could have thrown plastic, but didn't want to sacrifice hit.  When I moved in deep (fourth to fifth arrow) to find some oil, the SSP is the only ball I had that would give me the length I needed, but still have enough angle to carry the 10.  Someone with more hand than me could probably have made several balls work in that condition, but many of us low level tweeners are stuck between reactions in those circumstances.  As long as I didn't get it out to the dry early, it was fine.  Miss right and watch it go Brooklyn.
--------------------
Strider
Penn State Proud
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say.

Edited on 5/1/2003 10:24 PM

pchee2

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What is this???  Presto is actually Roger under a different screen name?   Oh man this is getting good.  No wonder why presto is annoying.  It all adds up now.  Presto is just a nicer personality of mustang guy.....his alter ego who is now aiding Roger into accepting what I say even though it hurts him worse than pulling teeth.   Good job on that one you definitely tricked me Roger.

Well, Nicanor's and Strider's reviews are exactly why I think there should be ratings of 3 different mainstream styles of bowlers.  In Nicanors hand, however miniscule it may be, the SSP was weaker than the Threat.  In contrast, in a manly man's hand like myself The Peach the SSP is a TON stronger than the Threat.  I use the SSP on oilier conditions than I do with the Threat.   The SSP is both more angular and earlier.  Nicanor got to see this at Holiday bowl where I was able to use the threat but the SSP was too much.  And for me the Blue outbackends them all.  

And I do agree with Strider the SSP is an awesome inside ball.  That is the only time I use it.   But strider can you imagine me trying to play down and in with it?  LMAO!  

So far just by seeing me throw the ball there has been 8 different people that have bought SSP's and 3 that haves bought retro blues.  Like I said, over and over again I do like Roto stuff.  Studies reveal that an average person needs to read something 3.62 times before it actually sinks in.  So far I've stated that I liked Roto stuff 6 times in this post.  So much for the 3.62.......now what does that say about Roto's "employee" who reads this site?




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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

Nicanor

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Strider,

I think what I said was that I had to move further left with the SSP, me being right handed, means that I thought the SSP was stronger then the Threat and much stronger back end then the Retro Blue pearl.  Maybe I didn't explain it correctly.  I stood 32 with the Threat, 33 and eventually 34 with the SSP.  I did say that the Threat worked best for me on these conditions not taking anything away from the SSP.  The SSP being reactive and the Threat being particle, I expected the SSP to be stronger on the back end then the Threat.  Am I still confused?  Please help me out if I am.

Glad the SP worked well for you.  I think I'm going to try the Silver Streak solid next.  The carry in Roto Grip is outstanding.

V/R,
Nicanor
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)