Post by: Urameshii6 on May 01, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
Post by: Kevspins2 on May 02, 2008, 01:11:14 AM
blemish....bonanza...pro pin...pro CG....pro tops... a blems is a blem.
first quality specs:
pin 1.5" to 4.5"
top 0oz. to 4oz.
anything else to me is a blem and should be 30 to 40 dollars cheaper, but I wouldnt waste my money on a blem. also... ebay sellers try to hint that their blems are only COLOR blems, give me a break...lets just say...you never get a color blem.
Edited on 5/2/2008 4:15 AM
Post by: the pooh on May 02, 2008, 01:49:35 AM
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the pooh
Post by: Kevspins2 on May 02, 2008, 01:54:41 AM
Post by: Locke on May 02, 2008, 03:56:26 AM
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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it
Known Cell pimp
Post by: Kevspins2 on May 02, 2008, 04:37:41 AM
I doubt that storm/roto would sell a first quality ball for 30 dollars cheaper just because it has a 6.5" pin.
www.bowlingball.com
Roto-Grip Illusion - $139.99
Roto-Grip Illusion Pro Pin - $109.99
I just hopped on over to jeff carters website and other then maybe 2 balls that look pro pin/mb his arsenal looks pretty average pin/mb to me.
the balls may be made just like the first quality balls using first quality resin, first quality filler, and first quality cores.....but every other company calls these balls a 2nd.
Edited on 5/2/2008 4:41 AM
Post by: n00dlejester on May 02, 2008, 07:27:07 AM
As for pro-pin, if CGNOMADDAH then who cares? Put the weight hole on the P2 of this chart: http://www.morichbowling.com/MosCorner/GradientLineBalanceHole/GradientLineBalanceHole.htm
You'll need that instrument to find a symmetric ball's PSA, but it may be worth it to save a few bucks. Who knows, right?
Post by: Mr Straight Ball on May 07, 2008, 03:18:22 PM
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40 Boards & A Ball
Is your ball ready to cross 40 Boards?
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...Why doesn't my ball h
k?
Post by: shelley on May 07, 2008, 03:47:55 PM
quote:
"Pro" balls may be a so called blem to some. They are commonly used on tour and that's how the name "Pro" got attached to these balls. The pins is 5" or longer or CG's not in line with the pin and mass bias.
They're common on tour because that's as good a place to dump equipment as any (you gotta give out free or low-cost stuff to the pros, might as well give 'em stuff you would toss out anyway). Also, many of the pros use a longer pin-to-PAP and higher placement above the midline. The longer pins let them do that while keeping the CG closer to the midline. They can make the ball move and adjust their release or line to make it work, even with unusual drillings or lousy specs.
And "pro" sounds so much nicer than "blem", doesn't it?
SH
Post by: Mighty Buffalo on May 08, 2008, 08:10:38 AM
I also have an Attitude Shift that is Pro CG. I have it setup wtih Drilling #2 on teh sheet that you get with the Pro CG balls. It has a small weight hole to bring it back to legal, but again it fits in my lineup as my heavy oil ball, and it was 20 - 30 bucks cheaper than the "normal" Attitude Shift.
The biggest thing to consider when getting one of these is: Can your proshop guy layout the ball properly. If your proshop guy is willing to try something different, you can get a great piece of equipment for a little less money.
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Let in the DOGS - I've got a HAMBONE for them!
To all the haters, get over it!
Post by: stormed1 on May 08, 2008, 09:59:42 AM
Post by: Bowler19525 on May 12, 2008, 10:20:13 AM
Per the Roto-Grip website:
What is an X-Blem? X-Comp? Pro-Pin? Pro-CG?
X-COMPS:
An X-Comp will have an X stamped by the serial number. X-Comps generally have a cosmetic blemish. The Pin distance is in the 2-4†only range and top weight is 2-4 ounce range. The reaction of the ball will be the same as a 1st hand quality ball. The package is marked with a small red number that denotes the specific issue.
X-BLEMS (Seconds):
An X-Blem will have an X stamped by the serial number. X-Blems are seconds due to a cosmetic blemish similar to an X-Comp, but the specifications fall out of the 2-4 / 2-4 range. There are a couple of areas that the ball would not meet some first quality manufacturing specifications (i.e. core chip or a mis-used core). The reaction of the ball will be the same as a 1st hand quality ball. The package is marked with a small red number that denotes the specific issue.
PRO-CG:
A Pro-CG is where the CG ends up extremely far left or right of the Pin and MB. If you draw a line from the PIN through the CG and then draw a perpendicular line at the half way point of that line. Go out 2 1/2†and then connect the points to create a diamond shape. If the CG is outside that diamond then it is a PRO-CG. This is a first quality ball and lends itself to several special drill options. Please see the enclosed drilling instructions.
PRO-PIN:
A Pro-Pin is where the Pin distance from the CG is 5 – 6 ½†out. Anything more than 6 ½†would be termed an X-Blem. This is a first quality ball and lends itself to several special drill options. Please see the enclosed drilling instructions.
Post by: Hogsharley on May 12, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
quote:
Hey, is there anyone out there that can give me the lowdown on Pro-Pin and Pro CG bowling balls? I hear from some that there's nothing wrong with them, I hear from others that they're junk, and then I hear from some others that they're better than the "first-quality" balls on the market. Can anyone, especially someone from Storm/Roto-Grip (I mostly see Pro-Pin/CG stuff from those two), help me with this?
Just ask yourself the most important question of all.
Why do they sell these balls cheaper than a 1st quality ball?
Answer; Because they are not 1st quality and therefore the manufacturer cannot get 1st quality dollars for them. If they were as good as 1st quality, the price would be the same as 1st quality. There is something wrong with the ball that did not pass quality control.
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: Kevspins2 on May 12, 2008, 02:15:09 PM
Post by: 1MechEng on May 12, 2008, 02:23:12 PM
quote:
Just ask yourself the most important question of all.
Why do they sell these balls cheaper than a 1st quality ball?
Answer; Because they are not 1st quality and therefore the manufacturer cannot get 1st quality dollars for them. If they were as good as 1st quality, the price would be the same as 1st quality. There is something wrong with the ball that did not pass quality control.
I'm not going to comment on Pro-Pin balls, but Pro-CG balls typically require a little more thought than most "normal" balls when laying out and drilling for a standard house bowler.
However, they are not without their own set of advantages as well. Being able to pick up a Pro-CG ball and put on a strong layout (with respect to mass bias location) without having the CG out of the palm (and hence, no weight hole required!) is nice.
But the Pro-CG balls are typically left/right hand specific. For this reason, they are not "universal", and thus can only be sold to a limited subset of bowlers. This is the reason for the price break. (Most pro shops want to stock balls that are not hand specific!).
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Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.
Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member
Post by: Strapper_Squared on May 12, 2008, 02:25:29 PM
If by chance I would have received a different ball with "more out of line" specs and a higher top weight, it would have been difficult, maybe impossible to use that particular layout and still make the ball legal. In that case, I had a back up plan to sell it to a lefty locally. If you can request specs (at least within a range), then there are no problems. If you can't, then its sort of a gamble. The roll, hit, performance of the ball will be fine, you just might be limited on the particular layouts you can use.
S^2
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“You can be with the guy and in his ear 24 hours a day, but at the end of the day you can’t be there the whole time.†(http://"http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?editorialAuthor=1&id=C011DC2A-B397-DB93-2A4AF1EDF4D7ABF9&page=2&endPoints=4351%2C8699%2C9240")
- Another Gem from Emmitt Smith 5-6-08
Post by: Monster Pike on May 12, 2008, 02:50:40 PM
quote:
I find a Pro-CG ball to be perfectly fine. I have a more or less Pro CG Storm Paradigm Passion, and I love that thing to death. It needed a weight hole the size of Rhode Island to make it legal, but it rolls smoother than pie. And pie is pretty smooth. Here's a pic: http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc10/n00dlejester/100_1152.jpg
As for pro-pin, if CGNOMADDAH then who cares? Put the weight hole on the P2 of this chart: http://www.morichbowling.com/MosCorner/GradientLineBalanceHole/GradientLineBalanceHole.htm
You'll need that instrument to find a symmetric ball's PSA, but it may be worth it to save a few bucks. Who knows, right?
I also have a Pro-CG X-Factor Perfecta. Mine is opposite of yours noodle. Mine has the CG left of the Pin-MB line, therefore I didn't need a weight hole at all. There is nothing wrong with that ball & hooks pretty good. The only thing I would say I don't like about the ball really has nothing to do w/the fact it's a Pro CG ball. It's that the cover stock takes a beating by the ball return. Several nicks & scratches on it compared to my other equipment.
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"The last time I saw a face like that, it had a hook in it's mouth." Rodney Dangerfield
Post by: Bowler19525 on May 12, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
quote:quote:
Hey, is there anyone out there that can give me the lowdown on Pro-Pin and Pro CG bowling balls? I hear from some that there's nothing wrong with them, I hear from others that they're junk, and then I hear from some others that they're better than the "first-quality" balls on the market. Can anyone, especially someone from Storm/Roto-Grip (I mostly see Pro-Pin/CG stuff from those two), help me with this?
Just ask yourself the most important question of all.
Why do they sell these balls cheaper than a 1st quality ball?
Answer; Because they are not 1st quality and therefore the manufacturer cannot get 1st quality dollars for them. If they were as good as 1st quality, the price would be the same as 1st quality. There is something wrong with the ball that did not pass quality control.
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3 holes of fun!!
So Roto-Grip is flat-out lying when they state on their own website that the Pro-CG and Pro-Pin balls are 1st quality? I highly doubt they would do that. If they were not 1st quality Roto-Grip would not hesitate to put X's all over them.
The Pro-CG balls can only be drilled reliably in a few specific ways. Roto-Grip provides 3 layouts for a CG left and 3 layouts for a CG right. The layouts they provide offer common reactions that most bowlers would want. The instructions are straight forward and should be easily understood by any competent ball driller. I can see where trying to drill the ball with a layout other than what is recommended in the instructions could cause trouble. Stick with the layouts on the sheet, and you will be fine...right or left handed.
The proper question that should be asked is, "Am I willing to pay less for a 1st quality ball with a little less drilling flexibility?" If you answer yes, then go for a Pro-CG. Otherwise, buy the other 1st quality alternative.
I would certainly rather have a Pro-CG ball than a standard ball with a 0-1" pin. As far as I am concerned, any ball with a 0-1" pin should be considered a blem.
Post by: Mustang Guy on May 12, 2008, 04:43:18 PM
Lots of things being said here and I know we have touched on this subject many times. Please forgive me if I say something different from what I have said before.
Manufacturing states that Pro Pin & Pro CG balls are first quality and not a blem. Yes we tag different names on to our many versions of blems and we do that for a number of reasons, but mainly for our customers.
1. A ball with a Pin 12 1/2" from the CG or a miss marked CG is truly a mistake and labeled as such. Anything internally wrong with this part is deemed as a BLEM.
2. A ball with anything cosmetically wrong is called an X-COMP. It must also have 2-4" pin or 2-4 oz top weight. If it is the wrong color, but a 0-1" pin we mark that as a BLEM. X-comps are sold for much higher dollars or balls that are given out at special tournaments, pro shop operators, amateurs, or even the employees here at Storm.
3. Pro Line balls are, in our opinion, and mine, first quality. They are not blems, but they are sold at a lower price due to the fact that they fall outside our 1st quality criteria.
If someone wants to say it is just a blem than please do. I'm not here to argue with anyone about that. This is just our stance on the subject.
We have manufacturing standards and that is why we label these balls differently. We felt that due to certain designs we are going to have balls where the Pin, CG, & MB do not line up every time.
It is a crap shoot though as someone said earlier. If you are LH or RH you could get a ball that your driller is going to have a tough time to lay out for you.
These balls can work great as someone else said earlier who has a Pro-CG Cell. Just remember...buyer beware. I have had many, many people call me and ask me what a Pro-CG OR Pro Pin is. I explained that if they didn't know I wouldn't suggest buying it and have recommended that those people purchase the higher priced, regular 1st quality bowling balls.
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Roger Noordhoek
Vice President
Business Development
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com
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