BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Roto Grip => Topic started by: greenefam on October 21, 2014, 07:29:51 PM
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I am putting together a 4-5 ball arsenal for my daughter. She is a 210 avg. tweener who bowls competitively in league and tournaments. She will be bowling the Queens and Women's open in 2015. Her current stuff is a few years old with hundreds of games on each ball. I am thinking one hell of a Christmas! She is a small but gets a decent amount of hand in the ball. I'm guess 350 rpm, about 15 mph off her hand, 45 degree tilt (hand and elbow on the inside of the ball throughout the swing - hand slightly outside at release.
Current thinking - (all pin up)
Sinister probably at 3000, favorite asymmetric layout 4 X 4
Disturbed - box 2000, 5 x 3
Wrecker at 4000, 5 x 4
Uproar box polish, also 5 x 4
Thoughts? anything else (other than plastic spare ball)?
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Id swap out the Wrecker for an UpRoar. I would also throw a Hysteria in there.
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The Uproar is probably going to be closest in overall reaction. IMO, the Wrecker is going to be much more skid/flip unless you adjust the drill layouts.
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thanks guys. I meant Uproar at box polish instead of Outcry.
I had been going back and forth between Outcry and Wrecker at 4000. I was thinking a bit more ball would actually be better.
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Hysteria is a must
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You're crazy to pass on a hyper!
I'd go..
Hyper cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Uproar
Scream
Or
hyper cell
Disturbed
Hysteria
Wrecker
Uproar/scream (I usually never carry both of these at the same time)
Go for 5 you only live once haha
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You're crazy to pass on a hyper!
I'd go..
Hyper cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Uproar
Scream
Or
hyper cell
Disturbed
Hysteria
Wrecker
Uproar/scream (I usually never carry both of these at the same time)
Go for 5 you only live once haha
Thanks Bill. I was considering the Hyper Cell as well. She has never really matched up well with polished solids like the Nomad so I was not really considering the Hysteria but I can be convinced into it. Right now my list is:
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Disturbed
Outcry (or Wrecker at 4000)
Uproar
I am still open to suggestions.
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Keep in mind that the Disturbed is stronger than the Hysteria. Even at the same surface, the Disturbed will have more overall hook.
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Keep in mind that the Disturbed is stronger than the Hysteria. Even at the same surface, the Disturbed will have more overall hook.
Interesting point. What about the list I provided with the Hysteria instead of Disturbed but sanded to 3000?
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15 mph off hand means 12.5 to 13 mph or so at backend is slow ball speed. Best factor that in on lane conditions she will face and balls chosen with layouts and assume you are going pin up because of this? Some of the higher end stuff is too much ball for slow ball speed players unless on heavy IMO.
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15 mph off hand means 12.5 to 13 mph or so at backend is slow ball speed. Best factor that in on lane conditions she will face and balls chosen with layouts and assume you are going pin up because of this? Some of the higher end stuff is too much ball for slow ball speed players unless on heavy IMO.
Absolutely slow speed with medium revs. She is a true tweener in roll who plays all parts of the lane. I normally completely agree with your 'too much ball' comment but in general her case it is the other way around. Weaker stuff makes her square up where her carry isn't as good. She is much better when she can create angle which tends to lean towards stronger stuff (actually more towards lower RG).
Right now she throws a Theory, Infinite Theory, Shooting Star, and Rising Star. All have several hundreds of games on them and after years of surface work I'm thinking it is time to replace, especially her two go-to balls for years the Infinite Theory and the Shooting Star.
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Shooting Star = Rumble I understand what you are saying greenefam. It's actually the way I tend to look at things. Move in and use stronger when you can for better carry. On house THS lane conditions some players even tweeners like myself will ball down and use angle straighter for carry when that is an option. As a younger player it's good to have all abilities from twig to deep inside and not pigeon hole yourself especially when young and learning.
BTW I see most bowlers over estimate their rev rates. http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Proshop_Information#Bowler_Measurements_.26_Reference
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15 mph off hand means 12.5 to 13 mph or so at backend is slow ball speed. Best factor that in on lane conditions she will face and balls chosen with layouts and assume you are going pin up because of this? Some of the higher end stuff is too much ball for slow ball speed players unless on heavy IMO.
He is right. But I have to have a ball at the top, when I need help on a pattern. The less I use my hyper the better...it stays newer, and I can jet ahead early instead of having to make up pins...
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Shooting Star = Rumble I understand what you are saying greenefam. It's actually the way I tend to look at things. Move in and use stronger when you can for better carry. On house THS lane conditions some players even tweeners like myself will ball down and use angle straighter for carry when that is an option. As a younger player it's good to have all abilities from twig to deep inside and not pigeon hole yourself especially when young and learning.
BTW I see most bowlers over estimate their rev rates. http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Proshop_Information#Bowler_Measurements_.26_Reference
Scott,
These are all great comments - thanks. FYI I wasn't necessarily trying to replace but more upgrade by targeting her needs. Given what I've seen I thought the Disturbed would have been a better ball for her than the Rumble but it is worth a look.
To me tweeners more than crankers and strokers have to focus on angle to the pocket for carry. Angle does not have to be more or less just what the lanes are giving you. With a 45 degree tilt straight up really only seems to work on longer patterns for her. It sounds like you are in the same boat.
BTW, given my intro I can see why you would think 'young and learning' but she has been bowling for 18 years and previously bowled for an NCAA team. Mainly looking for good matchups and your input has been invaluable. Thanks.
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Scott,
These are all great comments - thanks. FYI I wasn't necessarily trying to replace but more upgrade by targeting her needs. Given what I've seen I thought the Disturbed would have been a better ball for her than the Rumble but it is worth a look.
To me tweeners more than crankers and strokers have to focus on angle to the pocket for carry. Angle does not have to be more or less just what the lanes are giving you. With a 45 degree tilt straight up really only seems to work on longer patterns for her. It sounds like you are in the same boat.
BTW, given my intro I can see why you would think 'young and learning' but she has been bowling for 18 years and previously bowled for an NCAA team. Mainly looking for good matchups and your input has been invaluable. Thanks.
greenefam,
I wa unaware that she is that seasoned and yes that does change things. The Rumble is weaker than the Disturbed by a long shot so I was giving you more a comparison of like strength balls. Even though the numbers say the Disturbed is more of a match to the Shooting Star I would not call them close in total hook and strength as far as cover and core apples to apples comparison. Though the Rumble is weaker numbers wise 2.60 .030 depending on weight it's more in the Shooting Star's range IMO.
As far as 45* I believe you are talking axis rotation. What is her tilt? I would get all of her bowling stats. calculated so driller can get correct dual angle layouts and surfaces correct for her. My stats. are in profile. I always believe in crap in crap out. :)
Good luck, I think RotoGrip has a great complete line up top to bottom!
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Scott,
Yes, I meant 45 deg. axis rotation - axis tilt is relatively high at 30.
I'm curious about your Rumble comment. Is it your belief that the Rumble is earlier and more overall hook than the Shooting Star?
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Scott,
Yes, I meant 45 deg. axis rotation - axis tilt is relatively high at 30.
I'm curious about your Rumble comment. Is it your belief that the Rumble is earlier and more overall hook than the Shooting Star?
greenefam,
One has to be careful when we are comparing balls in that OOB surface on the Shooting Star and Rumble was/is 2000 a relatively dullish surface and both solid covers. I believe the SS Ultimate Vision cover slightly weaker than the Rumble 55M cover but they both seem to have close ability to oil covering ability. So, to me the numbers don't tell everything. The Rumble is not the same strength as the Disturbed and the Rumble is closer to the Shooting Star. I'd call the Disturbed a ball for medium-heavy and the SS and Rumble balls for medium and with surface adjustments and ability to change lines and release with some speed you could use a Rumble on light-medium. I use a Rumble with surface adjustments on everything from light-medium to medium-heavy.
My RG line-up is kinda different than most but I don't see that much heavy. I use on original Cell pin down for heavy, Rumble in up Motion hole layout but never added the Motion hole for medium, and an Uproar pin up over bridge for light-medium and a VBP BG Centaur label CG mid grip for light. I have a Storm SuperNatural pin up with Motion hole for ultra light and short patterns. My old Cell has 400+ games on it and will be replaced by a Hyper Cell or Sinister maybe later this year but I can't use these balls much around here so hard to invest the $$$.
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Is there a reason to limit it to Roto Grip only other than preference? Any thoughts on mixing and matching some Storm into the arsenal? If so, I would propose the following for an excellent Sport Shot/THS arsenal:
Hyper Cell - Oiler/Asymmetric
Zero Gravity - Medium-High RG Asymmetric well suited for longer sport patterns/higher volume THS
IQ Tour Solid - Low RG Benchmark ball for all conditions, especially sport shots
HyRoad Pearl - High RG pearl that peels sideways off the dry/THS Killer
UpRoar - Low diff pearl that acts as an excellent complement to the IQ Tour Solid/THS killer
Might be too much Storm for your liking though...
If I was going Roto Grip only, I would go:
Hyper Cell
Totally Defiant
Disturbed
UpRoar
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One more point on Hysteria....Im throwing mine without polish at 4000 and on THS the ball is super strong, clean upfront and a very hard but controlled move. Comparing to my Disturbed, they are two totally different reactions, at the same surface(4000) the balls are close in total hook but the Disturbed still starts up way earlier with a totally different move. If we look at OB surface then the Disturbed is miles stronger. I find my Hysteria at 4000 a great compliment to my disturbed at 2000. As the Disturbed starts early and loses the punch, when Im on a heavier THS, then the Hysteria is a great drop down, stay in same spot and get through the heads and get punch on backend. I actually really loved my asylum but found that more often than not the reactions were so close between Disturbed and it, that it really wasnt a good go to ball after Disturbed. If the disturbed started reading early, so would the asylum. I traded it away because I find the cleaner motion of the hysteria a better compliment. The disturbed is a great ball that handles some heavy oil well and med heavy very well. One of my favorites and also takes surface changes well, but I find the Hysteria more useable.....They are both must haves in my opinion. I also have the Hyper Cell which is more angular than the Disturbed and handles heavy a bit better, but I could get away without it as long as I keep Disturbed in my bag
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Is there a reason to limit it to Roto Grip only other than preference?
Yeah, just a preference. Storm is not out of the question but not in her current thinking.
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1-HYPER CELL -- 2-- SINISTER -- 3-- ASYLUM --4-- UPROAR --- 5--OUTCRY or I would also look at getting a DEFIANT SOUL, this is an excellent ball that is a step under the Sinister.
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Thanks to everyone for their input. Based on what I already know, what I think will fit my daughter, and the input provided over the past couple of days I am now at this:
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Rumble
Outcry
For the bottom of the order I am torn between Uproar and a Scream and I was leaning towards a Scream. The only reason I am hesitating is that she does have an original Shout that has never matched up for her (very odd over/under even in fairly burnt conditions). Mainly it was supposed to be a ball to go to after her Rising Star but it has been hit or miss at best. However, the best truly dry ball I've seen her throw was the Mercury a few years back - she won her first youth tournament on a sport shot switching to it at the end of match play. To me the Scream looks similar to a Mercury.
So here is my last remaining question - if you have an Outcry for medium to light conditions and moving left starts to leave weak tens or with small adjustments four pins do you want a Scream or an Uproar in you bag?
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Its a long drop from Sinister to Outcry or Rumble I'm not sure why you really need both the Outcry and the Rumble. As far as backend reaction the Uproar has more movement than the Outcry, Rumble or Scream. I myself would suggest drop the Rumble. You can always rough the surface up on the Outcry if you need to perform more like the Rumble.
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Outcry
Scream
One of the better 1 company five ball bags out there now in my opinion.
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Its a long drop from Sinister to Outcry or Rumble I'm not sure why you really need both the Outcry and the Rumble. As far as backend reaction the Uproar has more movement than the Outcry, Rumble or Scream. I myself would suggest drop the Rumble. You can always rough the surface up on the Outcry if you need to perform more like the Rumble.
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Outcry
Scream
One of the better 1 company five ball bags out there now in my opinion.
Thanks for the input. I'm not sure I care too much about the strength argument saying you don't need a Rumble if you have an Outcry since that is really an argument of total hook rather than angle to the pocket. For instance her Shooting Star and her Rising Star (at 4000) basically cover the same amount of boards but depending on the condition from the mids to the backend determines which to use at which time.
I am interested the Hysteria discussion since I have seen and heard different positions about a medium oil solid from Roto. The main reason I have been shying away from that ball is that I have never been a fan of high RG balls for lower speed bowlers. They seem to be more sensitive to minor hand position misses than lower RG balls but I can be convinced out of that. What would a Hysteria at 3000 look like? My assumption is it would be between an OOTB Disturbed and Rumble but probably more angular than both.
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longer and more angular than both.
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OK, LAST list before I start shopping:
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Outcry
Scream
Two solids, two hybrids, one pearl
Last comments?
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OK, LAST list before I start shopping:
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Outcry
Scream
Two solids, two hybrids, one pearl
Last comments?
I just can't justify having both a Sinister and Hyper Cell. Id take out the Hyper Cell and go with a Disturbed.
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OK, LAST list before I start shopping:
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Outcry
Scream
Two solids, two hybrids, one pearl
Last comments?
I just can't justify having both a Sinister and Hyper Cell. Id take out the Hyper Cell and go with a Disturbed.
Hate to disagree... But if I had to redo my arsenal that's what it would be! My sinister is weaker (usable) than expected.
The sinister is a perfect step down from my crux...
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OK, LAST list before I start shopping:
Hyper Cell
Sinister
Hysteria
Outcry
Scream
Two solids, two hybrids, one pearl
Last comments?
I just can't justify having both a Sinister and Hyper Cell. Id take out the Hyper Cell and go with a Disturbed.
Hate to disagree... But if I had to redo my arsenal that's what it would be! My sinister is weaker (usable) than expected.
The sinister is a perfect step down from my crux...
No harm, no foul. Thats why we are here.
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Its a pretty good arsenal....my girlfriend loves the high end roto stuff. She is a beast with a critical theory man! Everybody's jealous cause they want one haha
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I'll concur. Hyper Cell, Sinister, Hysteria, Outcry, Scream/Shout. Add in a Uproar if you're feeling froggy. I almost jumped ship from a unofficial 7 year relationship with 900 Global for this lineup. It looks that good.