BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Roto Grip => Topic started by: Metal_rules on February 18, 2013, 02:34:23 PM
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If you are a ROTO GRIP user then you know whats been on the last few shows.
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Seems like a lot of Disturbed, Defiant Soul and IQ Tour Pearl.
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I have seen the Soul - Disturbed - Shooting Star - Berserk and the Critical Theory. I guess the pros know what equipment is the best as well as I do. What I am trying to say is that Roto Grip matches up the best for me and my style, and I am having great results with their equipment.
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I have the Soul and love it, but have to admit, the shows have made the Disturbed look mighty good! Especially John Szczerbinski, looks incredible in his hands.
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I have seen the Soul - Disturbed - Shooting Star - Berserk and the Critical Theory. I guess the pros know what equipment is the best as well as I do.
Don't forget that the Wrecker made an appearance with Norm Duke throwing it the first week of the PBA league. He then switched to the Disturbed.
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Belmonte threw one as well even though obedient last quite as long to show off its potential.
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Their stuff is amazing! I drilled a Shatter a week ago and last week in league I had three 269's, 278, and 300! I didn't have a 800 series, but a bunch of 700's!! I had a Rising Star a few years ago and I love the Shatter even more!! I did have a 260 tonight in our senior league after getting my brain out of the way!! I'm a senior bowler and that ball makes me look like I can hook it!!
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I was surprised seeing usually strom guys tossing roto and roto guys tossing storm.
seeing Malott toss a stom ball down the lane was something I didnt expect.
Go Utah?
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Gomez with the Hyroad and the Shooting Star on the other lane won the match for him.
Great matchups great choices by him.
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Gomez with the Hyroad and the Shooting Star on the other lane won the match for him.
Great matchups great choices by him.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Sorry, Gomez won the match with execution and confidence. Balls don't win anything.
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Gomez with the Hyroad and the Shooting Star on the other lane won the match for him.
Great matchups great choices by him.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Sorry, Gomez won the match with execution and confidence. Balls don't win anything.
Ok, lets give him two Black Beautys and redo the match. Sound good?
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I'm loving my Roto Grip equipment and seeing all the stuff thrown on the show. Looking forward to finally throwing my pin up Wrecker in league this week. I'm already thinking about drilling another one pin under the bridge to see if it can replace my old Ambush as a benchmark ball. Based on the first one, I think a pin down one will still be quite a bit stronger than my Ambush. Probably need to get my Rico'd Dark Star re-drilled to my current specs as that ball was pretty close to the Ambush, just slightly weaker but pretty similar motion and better carry.
There is supposed to another Storm/Roto demo day coming up in St. Louis. Hopefully I will get a chance at trying out the Disturbed and Soul. Would also like to try out that Gold ball everyone is throwing.
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Gomez with the Hyroad and the Shooting Star on the other lane won the match for him.
Great matchups great choices by him.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Sorry, Gomez won the match with execution and confidence. Balls don't win anything.
Ok, lets give him two Black Beautys and redo the match. Sound good?
How about we give EVERYBODY a Black Beauty and redo the last 20 years?
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Gomez with the Hyroad and the Shooting Star on the other lane won the match for him.
Great matchups great choices by him.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Sorry, Gomez won the match with execution and confidence. Balls don't win anything.
Ok, lets give him two Black Beautys and redo the match. Sound good?
How about we give EVERYBODY a Black Beauty and redo the last 20 years?
Really, the last 40 years. Erase all of the plastic, urethane, and reactive coverstocks. Also, any score aided by a ball with a core. That's just unfair. <sarcasm off>
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I am always impressed when bowlers have to use two different balls and lines and throw so great!
I thoroughly enjoyed that match!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Let's give charlest a break. His point is very valid. Doesn't matter what ball out there a PBA pro is using if he throws it good it will strike. Personally, a couple weeks ago I shot 216 with a 6# Minnie Mouse Vis a Ball.
Some companies match up well to certain patterns and styles. There is no debate about that. But the non staff guys that say a certain brand is great always leave me scratching my head. Why would you limit yourself to one brand?
Everyone makes great products nowadays. Even the smaller companies like Lordfield, Jet, and Seismic. Would I recommend them to a customer? No not really. I steer my customers to stuff that I have more experience and knowledge about. But they are still good balls.
And lastly....lets remember. ..the great majority of todays releases are parts balls. Storm for example has released a handful recently....only the Lucid is an all new cover and all new core combined. Same goes for the other brands.
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Let's give charlest a break. His point is very valid. Doesn't matter what ball out there a PBA pro is using if he throws it good it will strike. Personally, a couple weeks ago I shot 216 with a 6# Minnie Mouse Vis a Ball.
Some companies match up well to certain patterns and styles. There is no debate about that. But the non staff guys that say a certain brand is great always leave me scratching my head. Why would you limit yourself to one brand?
Everyone makes great products nowadays. Even the smaller companies like Lordfield, Jet, and Seismic. Would I recommend them to a customer? No not really. I steer my customers to stuff that I have more experience and knowledge about. But they are still good balls.
And lastly....lets remember. ..the great majority of todays releases are parts balls. Storm for example has released a handful recently....only the Lucid is an all new cover and all new core combined. Same goes for the other brands.
Nice in theory, reference Patrick Allen when he terminated his own Track contract a few years ago. Claiming these guys can throw "anything" is a disservice. They cant, period. Will they strike? Yes. Will they win? No.
These guys are the best in the world and carry 20+ balls to the venue, yet we have people saying "balls dont matter". Only on ballreviews.com
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Let's give charlest a break. His point is very valid. Doesn't matter what ball out there a PBA pro is using if he throws it good it will strike. Personally, a couple weeks ago I shot 216 with a 6# Minnie Mouse Vis a Ball.
Some companies match up well to certain patterns and styles. There is no debate about that. But the non staff guys that say a certain brand is great always leave me scratching my head. Why would you limit yourself to one brand?
Everyone makes great products nowadays. Even the smaller companies like Lordfield, Jet, and Seismic. Would I recommend them to a customer? No not really. I steer my customers to stuff that I have more experience and knowledge about. But they are still good balls.
And lastly....lets remember. ..the great majority of todays releases are parts balls. Storm for example has released a handful recently....only the Lucid is an all new cover and all new core combined. Same goes for the other brands.
Nice in theory, reference Patrick Allen when he terminated his own Track contract a few years ago. Claiming these guys can throw "anything" is a disservice. They cant, period. Will they strike? Yes. Will they win? No.
These guys are the best in the world and carry 20+ balls to the venue, yet we have people saying "balls dont matter". Only on ballreviews.com
+1
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Gomez with the Hyroad and the Shooting Star on the other lane won the match for him.
Great matchups great choices by him.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Sorry, Gomez won the match with execution and confidence. Balls don't win anything.
Ok, lets give him two Black Beautys and redo the match. Sound good?
How about we give EVERYBODY a Black Beauty and redo the last 20 years?
Darreyl, I'm surprised at your response.
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I agree with Northface on this one.
Randy commented on less oil on the lane Gomez was using the Shooting Star(less core diff) on and more oil on the lane he was using the Hyroad on(more diff) and it was significant in allowing him to play very similar lines with a big difference in oil volume.
Great matchup and great execution and great realization of the matchups needed.
Fantastic all around.
Why is it good to stick with one company? A possible reason is being very aware of how the balls relate to each other if the company has a deep lineup.
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS I think the guys who don't see the differences are often more up the back and speed dominate and the guys who are rev dominant or on the side see the differences big time! Gomez, looks like a big reaction creating guy with medium speed and strong revs....
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Let's give charlest a break. His point is very valid. Doesn't matter what ball out there a PBA pro is using if he throws it good it will strike. Personally, a couple weeks ago I shot 216 with a 6# Minnie Mouse Vis a Ball.
Some companies match up well to certain patterns and styles. There is no debate about that. But the non staff guys that say a certain brand is great always leave me scratching my head. Why would you limit yourself to one brand?
Everyone makes great products nowadays. Even the smaller companies like Lordfield, Jet, and Seismic. Would I recommend them to a customer? No not really. I steer my customers to stuff that I have more experience and knowledge about. But they are still good balls.
And lastly....lets remember. ..the great majority of todays releases are parts balls. Storm for example has released a handful recently....only the Lucid is an all new cover and all new core combined. Same goes for the other brands.
Nice in theory, reference Patrick Allen when he terminated his own Track contract a few years ago. Claiming these guys can throw "anything" is a disservice. They cant, period. Will they strike? Yes. Will they win? No.
These guys are the best in the world and carry 20+ balls to the venue, yet we have people saying "balls dont matter". Only on ballreviews.com
I never said balls don't matter. Don't twist my words to make your point.
I said balls don't win; bowlers win. Huge difference!
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You guys surprise me with your emotional response, rather than a logical one.
However, if you honestly think the brand of ball makes a difference, rationally, if you think it through, so many balls made today have such a wide variety of potential reactions built into them (especially asymmetrics), you'd be more correct in saying that the drilling and the surface is what wins, rather than the ball itself.
This is especially true on the sport patterns that most of the PBA tournaments use, where almost a 1/2" pin or MB placement OR 5 degrees of VAL or DRILL angle can make a significant difference in the hands of these experts, no less the actual surface.
Balls, like the Vow, the Defiant Soul, the Aura, the Lucid, & the First Blood, can probably get upwards of 50 subtle but different balls reactions for any one PBA player if you mix Surface, Drill angle, VAL angle, Pin distance and weight hole for any one of these asymmetrics.
So, are any of you giving any credit to the brands' Tour rep for putting the right ball into the bowler's hand? -- Nope.
Are you giving any credit to the bowler? -- Nope.
Anyone give credit to Ronald Hicks or Hank Boomershine (and their designer kin with other companies) for designing these great balls? -- Nope.
All credit goes to the bowling ball.
Really?
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You guys surprise me with your emotional response, rather than a logical one.
However, if you honestly think the brand of ball makes a difference, rationally, if you think it through, so many balls made today have such a wide variety of potential reactions built into them (especially asymmetrics), you'd be more correct in saying that the drilling and the surface is what wins, rather than the ball itself.
This is especially true on the sport patterns that most of the PBA tournaments use, where almost a 1/2" pin or MB placement OR 5 degrees of VAL or DRILL angle can make a significant difference in the hands of these experts, no less the actual surface.
Balls, like the Vow, the Defiant Soul, the Aura, the Lucid, & the First Blood, can probably get upwards of 50 subtle but different balls reactions for any one PBA player if you mix Surface, Drill angle, VAL angle, Pin distance and weight hole for any one of these asymmetrics.
So, are any of you giving any credit to the brands' Tour rep for putting the right ball into the bowler's hand? -- Nope.
Are you giving any credit to the bowler? -- Nope.
Anyone give credit to Ronald Hicks or Hank Boomershine (and their designer kin with other companies) for designing these great balls? -- Nope.
All credit goes to the bowling ball.
Really?
Youre back pedaling faster than Deion Sanders now, of course all that matters, it goes without saying. But you stated "the balls dont win". Execution and confidence do, correct? Now, your rebuttal post is flooded with semantics covering VAL angle, surface, MB placement etc. If all that hold true, lets get Mr. Gomez a Black Beauty with the right surface and VAL angle and any other technicality to support your claim.
Point is, you cannot and will not out bowl bad ball reaction. No matter how well you execute or how confident you are.
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;D
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You guys surprise me with your emotional response, rather than a logical one.
However, if you honestly think the brand of ball makes a difference, rationally, if you think it through, so many balls made today have such a wide variety of potential reactions built into them (especially asymmetrics), you'd be more correct in saying that the drilling and the surface is what wins, rather than the ball itself.
This is especially true on the sport patterns that most of the PBA tournaments use, where almost a 1/2" pin or MB placement OR 5 degrees of VAL or DRILL angle can make a significant difference in the hands of these experts, no less the actual surface.
Balls, like the Vow, the Defiant Soul, the Aura, the Lucid, & the First Blood, can probably get upwards of 50 subtle but different balls reactions for any one PBA player if you mix Surface, Drill angle, VAL angle, Pin distance and weight hole for any one of these asymmetrics.
So, are any of you giving any credit to the brands' Tour rep for putting the right ball into the bowler's hand? -- Nope.
Are you giving any credit to the bowler? -- Nope.
Anyone give credit to Ronald Hicks or Hank Boomershine (and their designer kin with other companies) for designing these great balls? -- Nope.
All credit goes to the bowling ball.
Really?
Youre back pedaling faster than Deion Sanders now, of course all that matters, it goes without saying. But you stated "the balls dont win". Execution and confidence do, correct? Now, your rebuttal post is flooded with semantics covering VAL angle, surface, MB placement etc. If all that hold true, lets get Mr. Gomez a Black Beauty with the right surface and VAL angle and any other technicality to support your claim.
Point is, you cannot and will not out bowl bad ball reaction. No matter how well you execute or how confident you are.
No, drilling/surface is not the ball. If it were ball alone, it would not not matter how you drill it or what surface you put on it. I am still saying, no one gave any credit to any factor here in this discussion except the ball. I say, after the bowler, the drilling and the surface has a bigger affect than the basic ball by itself.
I am not backpedaling; you are trying to twist my words to suit your own argument.
Now, that you mention ball reaction, you are getting to PART of the point. A bowler cannot outbowl a bad ball reaction. But, just as importantly, in this discussion, a great ball reaction cannot win despite the bowler. The bowler is, by far and away, the biggest factor involved. Period. End of story!!
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At the end of the day, all these things factor in. However, the ability to execute shots is what wins titles. Ask WRW, PDW, Norm Duke, PB3, and a bunch of others about standing the test of time through years of hot bowling balls. If balls mattered that much, the Blue Hammer, Danger Zone, Gold Rhino, trauma, Heat, and many others would still be available for sale and these guys would have gone out with the early resin balls. The point is balls, layouts, and surface all play a huge role in making execution easier, but, it's still execution that wins.
RotoGrip is making some great versatile equipment, they've been doing it for almost 2 decades. From Silver Streaks to Horizons to RS-1's, P's, and X's to Epics, Cells, and beyond, they're stood strong in the industry. It just so happens that they are owned by the biggest selling company right now who has a crap load of staffers who can throw either company. Guys are having success with rotogrip.......... AGAIN! The same way guys are having success with the Aura, Vow, 811C/T, Oath, Meanstreak, Meanstreak Brawler, Innovate, etc. All these balls are great, but execution will win no matter the ball, layout or surface.
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Though the headline of this topic was about Rotogrip, I know my comments were not really addressing brand of ball.
My interest in the topic was the different amount of diff used on the different amounts of oils. Things I did not know about were surface prep or drilling. That would make it even more interesting. But alas, I did not know those.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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How do you know that what we see on the show is a result of how good the ball is. Could just be good marketing or paid for advertising.
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I agree with Northface on this one.
Randy commented on less oil on the lane Gomez was using the Shooting Star (older, weaker cover) on and more oil on the lane he was using the Hyroad on(stronger cover) and it was significant in allowing him to play very similar lines with a big??? difference in oil volume.
Great matchup and great execution and great realization of the matchups needed.
Fantastic all around.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Fixed