Post by: Lemonade on June 05, 2007, 03:28:05 PM
First of all I want to say that I have been browsing these forums for a while and finally made a profile.
Ok, back to the topic at hand...
I'm generally new to bowling. Well, I've done a bit of bowling before in the past but this is my first venture into my own ball collection. I'm a no thumb bowler because I mainly just played with house balls and I could never find a good fit (obviously
), but I'm interested in learning how to use my thumb. I've been looking towards some medium-heavy to heavy oil balls because the league I just joined up in lays down some pretty thick coats before matches. I've been browsing around looking at what my best options would be and I honestly can't seem to make up my mind. My friend has a Domination that I've practiced with and I need something that handles the oil a little better because I can't get much of a reaction from it. And before I get ridiculed on layouts remember that I'm pretty new and only know from what I've read on here, but I can't remember the exact layout he has on his ball so I don't know if it was weak or strong.
Ok, sorry for the long intro, but I've lowered my choices down to the Odyssey, Total NV, Mystic, or the Terminator. I have pretty fast ball speed and get quite a few revs on the ball so I've been thinking the Odyssey might help eat up some oil on the lane. My original choice was gonna be the NV but I've heard some horror stories from some (even at the local pro-shop) that even with maintenance the ball just gradually slips into a stage of reaction loss so it's made me weary of that choice. I'm just looking for a little bit of insight from the knowledgable minds on these forums to help me choose a ball that would perform well on heavier conditions, last long amounts of time since my current job isn't the best paying, and would be somewhat forgiving since I'll be working out the kinks with a new ball.
Thanks in advance,
Jason.
Edited on 6/5/2007 11:27 PM
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 05, 2007, 11:39:25 PM
Post by: Lemonade on June 05, 2007, 11:46:02 PM
Another thing...towards the end of the night when the lanes get worn down some, would the Odyssey continue to drive through the same line? Or would the dry spots through the lane cause it to react too early and hamper my ending games? Right now I don't have the money to end up grabbing another ball to make a combo so should I be ok with the Odyssey through a 3 game set? Or should I look for a different ball that's not quite as strong as the Odyssey for when it grips the lane?
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 06, 2007, 12:24:20 AM
The Horizon solid would be another fine choice more ball than the mystic not stupidly strong like the odyssey. The odyssey will work if you able to move inside well and chase the oil inside, otherwise i would go with something else.
The Total Nv is an ok ball nothing special about it to me, i would rank the Terminator and the odyssey above it in hooking power.
Edited on 6/6/2007 0:22 AM
Post by: Lemonade on June 06, 2007, 12:31:04 AM
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 06, 2007, 12:45:15 AM
-Carl
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Post by: justdale on June 07, 2007, 11:30:02 AM
The Odyssey is a very strong ball and for someone thats a no-thumber I wouldn't suggest this ball
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on June 07, 2007, 01:39:41 PM
quote:
I'm generally new to bowling. Well, I've done a bit of bowling before in the past but this is my first venture into my own ball collection. I'm a no thumb bowler because I mainly just played with house balls and I could never find a good fit (obviously ), but I'm interested in learning how to use my thumb. I've been looking towards some medium-heavy to heavy oil balls because the league I just joined up in lays down some pretty thick coats before matches.
With you being new to bowling, I would steer away from the Epic series all together. If this is your first ball, definately don't buy one. But since you usually used house balls you haven't established a PAP yet with the driller, which plays a huge role in laying your ball out. Also, with you learning, in my opinion its easier to learn with a lower end ball so that you will learn how to adjust and play the shot properly. Having stated that, I would go with the Mystic or the Horizon solids. Both excellent balls that you will be able to grow into. Then once you "work out the kinks" you will be able to decide if you want to go bigger or not. Also your not going to be paying 200+ dollars on a ball before you establish your release and then have to pay to get it redrilled.
BMM
--------------------
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Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 07, 2007, 02:20:25 PM
Would not a Horizon Solid be a better choice than a mystic in the 1 st place???
quote:
I don't know why anyone would say take the Mystic off your list, this a geat ball very easy to make adjustments and reading the lane is its attribute, 1st ball out of my bag right now.
The Odyssey is a very strong ball and for someone thats a no-thumber I wouldn't suggest this ball
Post by: Dan Belcher on June 07, 2007, 02:40:14 PM
Post by: Mustang Guy on June 07, 2007, 03:27:34 PM
Thanks,
--------------------
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Post by: Lemonade on June 08, 2007, 12:48:23 AM
quote:
After reading everyones ideas I would suggest the Horizon Solid too. In the Roto Grip lineup it would be your best choice for a ball to work on medium to heavy oil. I would not suggest the Lane Masters or Legends equipment ever. All medium to high RG cores. With your high speed they are going to give you the same trouble a Total NV or a Mystic would on those conditions with your style.
I've looked into the Horizon solid a bit and it might seem like a good choice. But to be perfectly honest I don't understand what you mean about staying away from the Legends and Lane Masters balls. I don't bowl that fast honestly, maybe about 16.5-17 at the pin deck and the way I get behind the ball it doesn't seem to react much different then people using thumbs. If you could elaborate more on this it would be greatly appreciated, the more I learn the better off I am.
And about establishing a PAP...I'm going to be getting my spare ball drilled for me this Saturday and then getting my new ball (whatever I decide) next Saturday. So even though it's the spare ball would it help the driller to understand my VAL and PAP since the ball is going to be released the same way? And that in turn would prevent replugging and drilling my strike ball?
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 08, 2007, 01:09:02 AM
Believe me the terminator is as strong as the odyssey as it comes polished from the factory, if it was at 1000 i would put money it would be stronger than a strong drilled Odyseey with the same bowler throwing them both. The cover is very strong and it has plenty of core too always make the corner, i missed twice the two frames the ball did not strike so it easily could have been a 300 with a better bowler throwing the ball.
quote:
After reading everyones ideas I would suggest the Horizon Solid too. In the Roto Grip lineup it would be your best choice for a ball to work on medium to heavy oil. I would not suggest the Lane Masters or Legends equipment ever. All medium to high RG cores. With your high speed they are going to give you the same trouble a Total NV or a Mystic would on those conditions with your style.
Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Vice President
Business Development
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com
For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com
Edited on 6/8/2007 1:09 AM
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on June 08, 2007, 06:29:40 AM
quote:
So even though it's the spare ball would it help the driller to understand my VAL and PAP since the ball is going to be released the same way? And that in turn would prevent replugging and drilling my strike ball?
Maybe, but then again maybe not. Especially if you switch between no thumb and using your thumb. I know that when I started bowling I had a high track and now its lowered quite a bit. Now just because your PAP changes doesn't automatically mean that your going to have to plucg your strike ball, but you may see that it works differently between your 2 releases. Maybe for the better, or you may get a totally adverse reaction. So thats why I say its better to go mid price because its cheaper for now and then later when your comfortable with your game you can step up to the EPIC series because your style won't alter as much as it will in your beginning stages.
I am just being nosey but where did your choices of: Odyssey, Total NV, Mystic, or the Terminator come from?
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: charlest on June 08, 2007, 06:40:15 AM
quote:
After reading everyones ideas I would suggest the Horizon Solid too. In the Roto Grip lineup it would be your best choice for a ball to work on medium to heavy oil. I would not suggest the Lane Masters or Legends equipment ever. All medium to high RG cores. With your high speed they are going to give you the same trouble a Total NV or a Mystic would on those conditions with your style.
Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Vice President
Business Development
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com
I'd check on that concept if I were you, Roger. First not so smart thing I think I've ever heard you say. You know darned well that you can't take a ball's performance and base it SOLELY on a core's specifications. I've used a few Lanemasters balls and the cores and covers are matched very well in the 99% case. They do not have any problems handling speed dominant players. The correct combination of the right ball, surface and drilling manage that very well, as they do in any ball product line.
FYI I also use and have used more than a few Roto-Grip balls, FWIW.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 6/8/2007 6:38 AM
Edited on 6/10/2007 4:21 PM
Post by: Laybzz74 on June 08, 2007, 07:27:41 AM
--------------------
**** Official "L/LM" ball "junkie" ****
Man, I LOVE this game; I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/Lane Masters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)
Post by: Mustang Guy on June 08, 2007, 09:59:09 AM
Lemonade - Not sure, but I thought I read some where you throw the ball extremely fast. I just looked back over your posts and don't see it anywhere. My mistake. 17mph at the pin deck is still around 19mph off your hand. You would be better off going with a ball that hooked a touch soon than a ball that hooked a touch late. I'd rather shine equipment if necessary than sand it any day.
I did just say in the Roto Grip lineup that the Horizon Solid was my suggestion. I think it is fair to say I'm not going to recommend a legends or lane masters ball, wouldn't you? Maybe my following sentence didn't support a ton of evindence from personal experience...but flat at out a lower rg ball like the horizon solid with a strong cover is as good a choice as any. The terminator has a particle loaded coverstock, but I've seen particle higher rg balls not roll as well as a low rg solid reactive ball.
Feel free to jab at me
as I'll continue to post on this site no matter what. Just remember I'm out to help bowlers make good equipment choices from our product line (Roto / Storm), not any other. I've never tried to come off any other way.--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Vice President
Business Development
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com
For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com
Post by: Laybzz74 on June 08, 2007, 12:37:22 PM
--------------------
**** Official "L/LM" ball "junkie" ****
Man, I LOVE this game; I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/Lane Masters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)
Post by: shelley on June 08, 2007, 12:55:24 PM
quote:
Aww I can't be biased in the roto forum?
This just in: Roto-grip vice president recommends against using competitor's equipment. Next thing you know, he'll recommend buying a couple of SD-73s.
SH
Post by: Lemonade on June 08, 2007, 07:46:03 PM
quote:
I am just being nosey but where did your choices of: Odyssey, Total NV, Mystic, or the Terminator come from?
BMM
Well I started looking into some balls before I started my summer league last week and the local pro shop owner said a Total NV would work pretty well for me. But then I started the league and noticed that there was a pretty decent amount of oil laid down on them. So that made me come here looking for a ball to handle some medium-heavy but mostly on the heavy side. It made me look into the Odyssey which intrigued me because I've never been familiar with Roto Grip equipment and I noticed a lot of posts about the Mystic (which I now know is made for lighter amounts of oil compared to the Terminator or Odyssey).
I've met some people in the league using Lane Masters equipment and they had many good impressions about their balls and how theirs had lasted a LONG time (which is good considering I can't continue to buy more). So that's where I got the Total NV, Odyssey, Mystic and Terminator.
Wow...that was long. And thank u to everyone else for the comments and suggestions, I'm realizing that this can be a little more complicated then I thought
Edited on 6/8/2007 7:43 PM
Edited on 6/8/2007 7:43 PM
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on June 08, 2007, 09:26:50 PM
But keep in mind...it don't get no better than roto grip!!BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: Lemonade on June 08, 2007, 10:25:33 PM
quote:
Ok. Assuming that your ball driller is knowledgable about what he does and has seen you bowl, you might not really need a heavy oil piece. Your on a house shot and house shots have friction. The fact that the driller reccommended a Total NV tells me that there has to be some backend some where. If that is the case, go Mystic because I think that you will find it just a tad more tweakable than the Horizon solid. You can keep the Mystic polished to get a lot of energy retention and a hard move off the dry. But if you see that its moving too much you can take it down to about 2000 Abralon and that will help you even out the shot. Just make sure whatever ball you choose that you are playing the shot correctly and you will be ok
Yea, but my pro shop owner hasn't really kept up with the new releases from Lane Masters (which makes me wonder about the Terminator as far as a more reliable and consistent ball) and I don't recall seeing Roto Grip equipment in there when I went in or even have him bring up the name. That's why I came here. Judging from reliability issues people are having with Ebonite balls I honestly don't feel like paying the premium for the Total NV and having to luck out in order for the ball to last. I will honestly choose reliability over performance because I can tweak my game to match up with the new ball a lot easier than affording to buy new balls when I hit trouble in the road. I've pretty much crossed the TNV off my list based on that alone (and yes I know many people have had no problems with them but just the fact that there have been numerous complaints about them has made me look the other way).
And back on topic of the pro shop's recommendations he was only able to go off of what I told him about my playstyle instead of watching me (I don't like their center too much). My league is in a different bowling alley with a different oil layout and I know I need a medium-heavy ball that can handle a nice amount of oil for the first game before I start to make a line on the lane that I can bowl down.
The Horizon Solid seems to handle oil really well from what I've read but I don't know if it will remain pretty consistent for me through the night. I'm kind of leaning towards the Terminator since it seems like it would be able to handle what I need at this time. It seems to me like the Odyssey would turn into too much ball once the oil starting clearing up later into the night, or atleast that seems to be what I'm understanding. Does the Horizon Solid remain consistent and work just as well in medium conditions as it does in heavy? I'm looking for a decently angular ball cause of how I play so would it be a good choice still?
Edited on 6/8/2007 10:25 PM
Post by: directdrill on June 08, 2007, 10:58:08 PM
I think the Horizon Solid is a great ball and you should definitely consider it. Mine is drilled 4-1/2" pin-PAP (over bridge) x 4" CG-PAP. This ball is so smooth off of the break. It will handle a good amount of oil. I was bowling in a house 2 weeks ago that had recently resurfaced the lanes, so they couldn't strip them for 2 weeks (that is what I was told), only reapply more oil. Lots of carrydown. The Horizon Solid did a great job on this shot. I was using my Track Animal (pin under ring, MB towards VAL, 500 Abralon finish), a particle ball, and I couldn't get it to finish. I would imagine you could tweak the cover and the drilling and make it angular, but I like the control drill I have on mine. If you get it, you won't be disappointed.
--------------------
Hook 'em Horns!
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Post by: bowlingmytmouse on June 09, 2007, 10:20:24 AM
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: Lemonade on June 09, 2007, 10:52:06 AM
Post by: Lemonade on June 09, 2007, 05:58:27 PM
Maybe in another month I'll look into a Venus or a Saturn incase I play in some drier situations.
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on June 10, 2007, 10:38:10 AM
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: Lemonade on June 10, 2007, 02:01:07 PM
quote:
Well congrats, just make sure that he measures your PAP off of your spare ball before he drills the Horizon Solid.
I couldn't get my spare ball yesterday like I wanted so I'm gonna be getting both balls next Saturday. I'm gonna have him drill up the spare ball first and let me throw a couple of games to get an oil track on the ball so he can measure it from there. But thanks!
Post by: charlest on June 10, 2007, 04:23:15 PM
quote:
Hey Charlest this isn't probably your smartest comment either......
quote:
You know darned well that you can take a ball's performance and base it SOLELY on a core's specifiecations
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The name say's it all
That should have read "can't", not "can". That was a typo.
Mustang Guy was saying the Lanemasters/Legends balls won't hook early enough solely because their core's RGs are high. I was countering that by trying to say you cannot measure a ball's preformance solely based on the core's specs.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 6/10/2007 4:24 PM
Post by: Mustang Guy on June 11, 2007, 05:29:20 PM
Have a nice day.
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Vice President
Business Development
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com
For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com
Post by: tekneek on June 12, 2007, 09:09:09 AM
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Steve
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