Post by: bowlingmytmouse on September 04, 2006, 12:03:39 PM
I had the chance this past weekend to bowl at a sport shot tournament. 39 foot pattern. 2:1 ratio. I struggled horribly. I had a decent look deep inside with my venus (punched 2 1/2 x 1 1/2). I'll post some pics and a review later. But after this week I have come to the conclusion that I must end my exclusivity to Roto Grip solely for sport shot tournaments. Don't get me wrong, I still love RG with a passion but there are some heavy shots where the lack of aggressive COVERSTOCKS within the RG line. I know all about the epic line and their strong cores. But how does their coverstocks match up to those of Brunswick and Morich high end pieces. Not even comparable in my mind. I need a piece that is gonna let me open up the lanes on tough shots. I don't mean a ball that will let me go coast to coast, but rather help me blow a hole in the condition just a tad.
Having stated that I will be buying an Absoloute Inferno and a Vapor zone to get the big covers that I am looking for. Does/Has anyone noticed the hole in RG's lineup? I mean on THS and patterns shorter than 37 feet, its money but when the shot is flat....I can't get the read that I am looking for.
BMM
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Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Edited on 9/4/2006 8:33 PM
Post by: hammermike2000 on September 04, 2006, 08:09:01 PM
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BOWL N.C. TOUGH SHOTS TOUR
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on September 04, 2006, 08:15:25 PM
If you want to go Brunswick for heavy oil...look at the Ultimate Inferno (if you can find one) or the Scorchin'.
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Stephen
Dyno-Thane (for now)
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on September 04, 2006, 08:27:06 PM
BMM
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Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Edited on 9/4/2006 8:21 PM
Post by: Roto-Mat on September 04, 2006, 08:27:31 PM
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Roto-Grip Staffer
Turbo 2·N·1 Staffer
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Post by: bowlingmytmouse on September 04, 2006, 08:34:18 PM
Yes I have tried the Oracle many of times and have had some success, but the look that it gave me was squiggly partially the way I have it drilled, Label there is a pic in my profile. I was surprised @ the venus as well, but with that layout I put on it, its a monster. But most bowlers that had success were able to play outside with Infernos and Awesome hooks. I'm not saying that RG can't work on these shots, it just doesn't match up well with me.
Oh I haven't had the chance to pic up the Battle yet I have punched the Epic and have a Saga to drill, but I haven't had the chance just yet for the Battle.
BMM
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Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Edited on 9/4/2006 8:32 PM
Post by: Roto-Mat on September 04, 2006, 08:54:43 PM
Considering reactions, IMO the Infernos = Horizon/Original Epic, and the WOMB = Battle, but not with the great carry that comes with the RG logo!
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Roto-Grip Staffer
Turbo 2·N·1 Staffer
Owner/Operator of
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Post by: scotts33 on September 04, 2006, 08:57:55 PM
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Scott
Post by: toomanytenpins on September 04, 2006, 09:12:53 PM
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Post by: RevLefty on September 04, 2006, 09:33:50 PM
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What an epic battle that was me against the pins every time I bowl, wake up again and go at it again,try to burn em down like a PYRO!!! Then I listen to ROME in the afternoon and that dude is like EPIC!! Ha ha ha ha you always say that!
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on September 05, 2006, 01:45:06 AM
You make a good point in regards to my layouts. However, after throwing my Epic, I Don't know if I like the idea of putting the MB in the strong position with any of the Epic line. The core is so strong that I get all the action in the first 3/4 of the lane and nothing @ the end. You are probally thinking that this is what I am looking for. And it would be if the cover was a tad stronger, I know there is the battle, but I don't want to always have to throw particle. But we'll see what happens. Thanks for the advice guys its duely noted.
BMM
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Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: jhutch769 on September 05, 2006, 01:53:43 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on September 05, 2006, 02:05:07 AM
Maybe balls in the Vertigo, Total Annhilation, Strike Zone are your cup of tea!
I see these mass bias balls with the solid version of the Vapor and Absolute Inferno coverstock as being stupendous for this type of shot that is typically desirous of having a ball set up with strong midlane (and one can get the backend too).
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS two unsung balls I have seen do very well on PBA type patterns that have length are the V2 POWER(some around) and the Columbia Shock(tough to find).
PPS I am convinced that the strong BAttles could accomplish what you want as they are strong mass bias balls and can be set up to get length and backend too...along with strong midlane needed on these shots.
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Traumatize on September 05, 2006, 02:35:50 AM
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Buffalo bowlers are the best all around in the country.
AMF Thruway Lanes Pro Shop employee, and I have no problem saying that I'm Officially a Ball Junkie.
Post by: RyanRPS on September 05, 2006, 05:31:27 AM
And as others have commented, no matter what the ball, the drilling should suit the ball/pattern.
Ryan
Edited on 9/5/2006 5:25 AM
Post by: rotomike on September 05, 2006, 08:15:59 AM
I agree with those who have stated your layouts are not suited to sport conditions. The wrong layout will make almost all pieces roll like poop on a Sport condition. Balls that work on a THS will not work as well on a Sport shot especially in our area.
Secondly It sounds to me like you were playing the lanes incorrectly. In general on a 39ft pattern you should be looking a bit more outside for your breakpoint especially early on. The lanes will then open up due to amount of play. The higher scoring bowlers stay clean early and make the move quickly and confidently when the shot opens up. Opening up is a relative term...it means you have 3 or 4 boards to hit instead of 1 or 2.
I think you are mistasken regarding the coverstock issue. But you need to see that for yourself. Yeah I am on Staff but as a player I do not feel like I am at any disadvantage regarding the equipment I am using. The biggest weakness of all bowlers on a Sport shot is the bowlers themselves. Sport bowling will expose every weakness in your physical game. Many bowlers are not willing to accept that it might be them and not their equipment but repeated exposure to sport conditions will show them the way. (It has taken some players up to 3 years to come to that realization)
Having said that the right layout will give bowlers a better chance to have a repeatable consistant ball reaction.
The Offer: get your butt up to Fort Meade. There are Sport lanes available for open play on Sundays all day and Sport league is starting next monday. I am there most Sundays (when I am not working in the shop @ SPCD) I will be happy to work with you regarding breaking down a Sport shot and advising you on your layouts.
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Mike Sinek
Roto Grip Pro Shop Staff
Kingdom member for life
Post by: BackToBasics on September 05, 2006, 09:07:19 AM
I think others have given good advice. You are making a mistake by thinking you can open up a Sport shot. The pairing and play will do that.
The second mistake may be using Roto stuff in box finish when there is high volumes of oil. I'm not a big fan of their box finish. Very squirty and you don't get much midlane. Remember, Brunswick's VZ and AI are 400grit with Rough Buff where I believe Roto's is 1500 polish. Big difference to start. For example, I have an RSX box that was more medium medium-light. However, once I knocked the box finish off the ball it's definately a lot stronger. Up there in strength with an Absolute and was used on all kinds of heavy midlane and fronts. I would use the Absolute when they were fresh because it was smoother downlane. The Horizon is another strong sleeper. Close to strength as a Classic but smoother. The Epic and Saga are extremely strong resin balls and the Battle is a strong particle with finish. So you definately have all the cover strength needed in Roto's lineup.
I really don't think it was the equipment maker, but rather how you attacked the shot and the equipment layouts and surface that mattered. If you had a decent look with a lowend piece as the Venus (which is sleeper strong), then you had pretty nowhere but "up" in Roto's lineup to find a piece.
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on September 05, 2006, 10:40:22 AM
I always think about changing the surface on my pieces, but rarely do. Maybe I am scared of sanding an OOB polished piece. But please don't think that I am blaming the balls all together.
I will be @ Fort Meade in the upcoming weeks Mike and when I get there I'll definately shoot you a PM. I know that I have to work on squaring up better and also staying tight when I play inside. Like I said I have a Saga that I have to punch up and have been debating a Battle, and from what some have said, I may just go ahead and pick it up. As far as layouts are concerned, I'm going to talk to my driller about punching a few pieces stronger as far as the MB is concerned to see if I can get a better look. A few of the balls I have I picked up off of others and drilled behind them, so I think I may changed that. Also, I never thought that I would compete on Sport shot, so I haven't drilled my balls accordingly. I think that I am still going to tamper with the Big B and see what it does, I'll let everyone know. Everybody I am very grateful for all of the comments, its great to find some help when in need. I think that part of it was initially the frustrations of the Sport shot. LOL, I know everyone has been there.
Thanks again,
BMM
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Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: BackToBasics on September 05, 2006, 12:40:32 PM
quote:
Maybe I am scared of sanding an OOB polished piece.
Don't be afraid to alter the surface. I still believe it's 60-70% of the reaction and when you aren't getting the read you need, change the surface. Different grit Abralons, different sanding grits and polish, etc. They make a HUGE difference. Try it on an old ball that you have lying around. Throw a few games. Then alter the surface and see the difference.
Post by: DP3 on September 05, 2006, 03:35:19 PM
Just a few notes I'd like to put out there for people are for 1:
The shot was 39 feet with not much buff area(4ft buff to be exact), so 35 feet of oil with no buff can appear to play as long as a 41 or 43 since there's no drop off in the pattern until late. It's not like a house shot 39 ft where there might be oil for 27 feet then a buff to 39. It was fairly difficult to get the ball started in the midlane if you could get your release right up the back of the ball(something that BMM and myself both have a problem with) so that made the shot play even longer for us. I have a high rotation, and he has a high tilt. Both were deadly in trying to play this pattern.
Some notes on the people that were scoring, they were using aggressive coverstocks with weak pin drills(a common occurance on sport shots IMO). The people bowling exceptionally well were using Big Time, Paradigm, Ultimate, Original Inferno, Threshold, Agent, and a few Morich pieces here and there. I think BMM lacked a ball strong enough with the proper layout to attack this pattern. I had a fairly good look with a Radar Lock 3 1/2" pin to PAP, MB under thumb, I just had my moments where I'd throw the ball through the window, or squeeze the ball at the bottom since the mark I was trying to hit was so close to me(I pulled my mark all the way back to the dots).
His aggressive Rotos were drilled too weak, and his control pieces by nature were drilled too strong. Nothing he had really gave him a good read. He had a decent look deep inside with the Venus but when you have 1-2 boards to hit at 40 ft in order to strike, it becomes a pain trying to hit especially when you're not comfortable. He didn't really have anything that matched up or read well enough to play the angle that everyone was scoring from.
So in conclusion James, Rico1 drilled Sonic X.....never leave home without it!
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
"Only Chuck Norris can prevent forest fires."
Post by: michelle on September 05, 2006, 04:51:20 PM
Arguably one of my favorable oil balls still has fewer than 30 games on it despite being more than a few years old. It was a short pin Major Assault. The majority of those games have come in two events.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know all of what is in the current lineup, but I will also say that with the right drillings and surface preps, there is nothing that cannot be conquered with an all-RotoGrip arsenal...
Post by: rotomike on September 05, 2006, 07:55:20 PM
If so you and BMM would benefit from bowling on the Fort Meade sport condition regularly. You would then get the chance to play on a real sport shot week after week. Your game will see real improvement. It will also make your trips to York and Forest Hill more profitable $$$$ Not to mention any other tournament you play in.
I have been bowling on Sport shots since an original ABC test league 6 years ago. The biggest early improvement was in my spare shooting. After getting a better understanding of layouts, surfaces, and lane conditions my tournament perofmance has improved greatly.
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Mike Sinek
Roto Grip Pro Shop Staff
Kingdom member for life
Post by: DP3 on September 05, 2006, 08:05:29 PM
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
"Only Chuck Norris can prevent forest fires."
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on September 05, 2006, 09:58:42 PM
I'ma try to get up there on Sundays Mike I'll pm you soon.BMM
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Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: rotomike on September 05, 2006, 10:08:36 PM
BMM - looking forward to it.
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Mike Sinek
Roto Grip Pro Shop Staff
Kingdom member for life
Post by: The SuperHitMan on September 06, 2006, 12:22:35 PM
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Wayne Saunders: AH-HUUUUUHHHHH KACE YOU SHOT 300 AH-HUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!
Janeen Hall: Congratulations Baby.
Tommy B: I'm proud of you.....
Mike Hall: I yelled the last shot in there....
K.C. White II:
And I did it My Way Hooking the lane with a high-end piece, an Epic Battle. Take that Mr. Slater...I did it my way I got what I came for.Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Epic Battle: $124.00
Drilling at 12inaRow: $50.00
League Cost: $16.00
Showing Mr.Slater my 300 ring and telling him I DID IT MY WAY WITHOUT GOING UP THE BOARDS: P-R-I-C-E-L-E-S-S