Post by: Jayzero on May 27, 2009, 07:08:04 AM
I like them all except the Hy-Road. I got it to fill the gap between my Shift and my Street Rod but I can't seem to find a condition that I like it with. I feel like its TOO agressive off the dry but NOT aggressive at all if it encounters oil. So what I get is a MAJOR over/under ball... even on a walled up pattern. If I go in to the oil it won't make it back, and if I get it out to the dry I'm going up the nose. I had the EXACT same problem with the Rapid Fire but I figured it was a fluke. I started at box surface polished, and then changed it to 4000 polish to at least make it less aggressive in the dry, but it's still not consistent. I don't know what else to do.
Any suggestions?
--------------------
jayzero
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Average: 215
Rev Rate: High (375+)
Speed: Average (16.5-17.5 relaxed)
VAL: 5.25 over / .25 up
ALL Storm Arsenal:
Virtual Gravity
Dimension
Gravity Shift
Hy-Road
Street Rod Pearl
Jolt Pearl
Post by: Kid Jete on May 27, 2009, 03:12:29 PM
Edited on 5/27/2009 3:13 PM
Post by: NoseofRI on May 27, 2009, 03:14:56 PM
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 27, 2009, 03:22:44 PM
quote:I run into the same exact problem with ALL of Storm's equipment that comes polished out of the box. The OOB finish they use is too shiny for my game. Sanding to either 1000 or 2000 abralon depending on the reaction I want, then applying a much lighter coat of polish (I like polishing by hand, without a spinner, with Snake Oil personally) really brings the ball to life for me. More midlane read, better reaction in oil, and more controlled reaction off the dry.
I feel like its TOO agressive off the dry but NOT aggressive at all if it encounters oil. So what I get is a MAJOR over/under ball... even on a walled up pattern. If I go in to the oil it won't make it back, and if I get it out to the dry I'm going up the nose.
Post by: BallsDeep on May 27, 2009, 03:56:12 PM
The hyroad core has a higher rg AND a higher differential. The other stuff in your bag has lower rgs paired with higher differentials (virtual, gravity, & dimension) or higher rgs with lower differentials (street rod, & jolt). The core in the hyroad will tend to make the ball go longer than the first grouping with a stronger move off the dry than the second grouping, which is consistent with the over-under you may be seeing. Moreover, the only ball that you have listed with similar core numbers is the Rapid Fire...
By sanding the ball a bit you should smooth out the over-under and get a much better ball reaction. The coverstock is even more important than the drilling/core strength, so there is alot that you can try without making a major change. Hope this helps...
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]
Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: Neptune66 on May 27, 2009, 03:57:03 PM
Am experiencing similar problem with the Virtual Gravity. Added a little polish last week, and at first it seemed to help with consistency, but I have thrown more gutter balls with this ball than I can remember ---cause I have this misplaced confidence that it can recover from any kind of operator error. It can't. And if I slow it down or try to add some revs (not something I do well anyway), I end up on the wrong side of the headpin more often than not.
People tell me it's cause I am throwing the ball wrong and not giving it a chance to roll. And they are correct and there ARE flaws in my game. But I ALSO tend to not let my other equipment roll, and yet this ball seems to act like a knuckle ball in my hands and magnify all of the flaws in my delivery. It's the first ball in 40 years (and having owned 20-25 overall) that violates the code ---if there were such a code of ethics for bowling balls like there is for Doctors--- that says to first, do no harm.
First ball ever, that I am seriously considering selling, though do not want to take the monetary loss and go through the hassle of the transaction.
Is there any adjustment that (without knowing all the technical specs for my CG and Pin, etc.) might help save this ball from becoming my first ever reject at such an early age?
Post by: Jayzero on May 27, 2009, 04:12:09 PM
Thanks again!
--------------------
jayzero
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Average: 215
Rev Rate: High (375+)
Speed: Average (16.5-17.5 relaxed)
VAL: 5.25 over / .25 up
ALL Storm Arsenal:
Virtual Gravity
Dimension
Gravity Shift
Hy-Road
Street Rod Pearl
Jolt Pearl
Post by: NoseofRI on May 27, 2009, 04:24:21 PM
quote:
Hope this is not off-topic too much. Different ball....same manufacturer....same disappointment with results.
Am experiencing similar problem with the Virtual Gravity. Added a little polish last week, and at first it seemed to help with consistency, but I have thrown more gutter balls with this ball than I can remember ---cause I have this misplaced confidence that it can recover from any kind of operator error. It can't. And if I slow it down or try to add some revs (not something I do well anyway), I end up on the wrong side of the headpin more often than not.
People tell me it's cause I am throwing the ball wrong and not giving it a chance to roll. And they are correct and there ARE flaws in my game. But I ALSO tend to not let my other equipment roll, and yet this ball seems to act like a knuckle ball in my hands and magnify all of the flaws in my delivery. It's the first ball in 40 years (and having owned 20-25 overall) that violates the code ---if there were such a code of ethics for bowling balls like there is for Doctors--- that says to first, do no harm.
First ball ever, that I am seriously considering selling, though do not want to take the monetary loss and go through the hassle of the transaction.
Is there any adjustment that (without knowing all the technical specs for my CG and Pin, etc.) might help save this ball from becoming my first ever reject at such an early age?
Sounds more or less like coaching would be your best benefit. Throwing many gutter balls has NOTHING to do with the ball. If your too mistakes are either the ball goes in the gutter or it hooks to the brooklyn side, then you also need to move your feet. But honestly try some coaching.
Post by: tburky on May 27, 2009, 04:51:00 PM
Post by: themagician on May 27, 2009, 05:05:55 PM
Most people I know however just loved the ball from the get go, i almost sold it but I hate to not try surfaces and such, and i'm very thankful that I did as the ball is doing great for me now.
Also, for you i'd suggest using some surface, this will get the ball to dig a bit in the oil and be smoother off the dry part of the lane. I can't guarantee that it will be the almighty problem solver but its worth a shot.
--------------------
AbsoluteBowling.com (http://"http://www.absolutebowling.com")
BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net")
Post by: Neptune66 on May 27, 2009, 10:24:21 PM
I did decide to go the other way and had it dulled down (to about 800). Then I rolled several games and although the ball had a nice reaction, it's still not working for me. The lanes were on the oily side too, but the ball is just way too sensitive to something---speed---release? I don't know. I DO know that I'm missing a lot on both sides of the lane, and that just isn't me ---coaching or not.
Normally my issues consist of consistently missing right OR left. Not both in the same session, and not randomly as it has been with the VG. And when I said I was throwing gutters, I meant a few spread over 15-20 games. But they were not drops of mistimed releases. They were balls intended to come back, that just kept on going without ever turning.
Going to shelve it for several days and then give it another workout in league and see if the duller surface helps. If not... it's going to make history by being the first ball I ever gave up on....period.
Post by: Dave_in_Rio_Rancho on May 27, 2009, 11:15:29 PM
Post by: Neptune66 on May 27, 2009, 11:47:25 PM
It's the Virtual Gravity, not the Hy-Road that I'm having trouble with. Though, this WAS a post about the Hy-Road and I kind of jumped in cause it seemed a similar issue to the original poster.
And... the Virtual is drilled --- or supposed to be --- the same as several other balls in my arsenal. However... last night was rather warm inside the bowling center, and even after removing the last piece of tape from the thumbhole, my VG WAS a tad too snug. I am reluctant to mess with that aspect, though, cause [at least in theory] it's an exact match of the other balls. Except--- the thumbslug appears to be a slightly different material than the rest, so maybe it's a tackier feel and that's making it more difficult for a completely clean release?
It's not as if I was in danger of not being able to exit the thumbhole, but it was a smidgen snugger than optimal. And that surely would cut down on revs and cause the kind of inconsistency I'm experiencing.
So... at first I was going to say that it can't be the drilling, since it's supposed to be the same as the other balls and it ---for the most part ---FEELS the same. But it wouldn't hurt to have the thumbhole compared to one of the other balls. I am VERY sensitive to minor differences in the fit of the thumb, therefore, it wouldn't take much to affect my delivery.
Or... I could just leave the ball alone until the fall, when the cooler weather will cause my thumb to shrink in relation to the hole and if I suddenly start bowling "lights out" with the VG, it will be interesting.
Anyway...Thanks. Although I really dont want to admit the fit may need some fine tuning, I am glad you mentioned it.
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 28, 2009, 07:36:23 AM
quote:I would rather have my thumbhole a touch too big and adjust with tape than I would try to make it fit perfect without tape. My thumb changes sizes enough that I basically rebuild my thumbhole with tape every few weeks. I use one or two pieces of white tape in the front for grip, then just line the rest of the thumbhole with Franken Tape since it's slick tape and it's very thin, which let me really finely adjust how tight the sides of my thumb are. Since I have a pretty ovaled thumb, this helps me come out of the ball much more cleanly when my thumb starts acting up. Before I did this, I had trouble with having zero consistency once my thumb got even just a little tight.
Anyway...Thanks. Although I really dont want to admit the fit may need some fine tuning, I am glad you mentioned it.
Post by: dougb on May 28, 2009, 10:27:58 AM
quote:quote:I run into the same exact problem with ALL of Storm's equipment that comes polished out of the box. The OOB finish they use is too shiny for my game. Sanding to either 1000 or 2000 abralon depending on the reaction I want, then applying a much lighter coat of polish (I like polishing by hand, without a spinner, with Snake Oil personally) really brings the ball to life for me. More midlane read, better reaction in oil, and more controlled reaction off the dry.
I feel like its TOO agressive off the dry but NOT aggressive at all if it encounters oil. So what I get is a MAJOR over/under ball... even on a walled up pattern. If I go in to the oil it won't make it back, and if I get it out to the dry I'm going up the nose.
Also a bit off-topic, but how do you polish by hand? I don't have a spinner, or the money to take my equipment into the pro shop as often as I like.
Seeing as I don't see too much oil out here, I like to keep a nice shine on my T-Road Pearl and Cherry Vibe.
Post by: Dan Belcher on May 28, 2009, 02:11:25 PM
quote:Just like it sounds. Take a towel (microfiber works really well), apply some polish, and rub! A little elbow grease and a little effort is involved, but it's also not going to burn in the polish and give you that super high gloss shine you'd get if you did it on a spinner. (Also, if you don't see much oil and need help getting not only more length, but less overall hook, you might try something like Valentino's UFO polish or something else with a slip agent in it)quote:quote:I run into the same exact problem with ALL of Storm's equipment that comes polished out of the box. The OOB finish they use is too shiny for my game. Sanding to either 1000 or 2000 abralon depending on the reaction I want, then applying a much lighter coat of polish (I like polishing by hand, without a spinner, with Snake Oil personally) really brings the ball to life for me. More midlane read, better reaction in oil, and more controlled reaction off the dry.
I feel like its TOO agressive off the dry but NOT aggressive at all if it encounters oil. So what I get is a MAJOR over/under ball... even on a walled up pattern. If I go in to the oil it won't make it back, and if I get it out to the dry I'm going up the nose.
Also a bit off-topic, but how do you polish by hand? I don't have a spinner, or the money to take my equipment into the pro shop as often as I like.
Seeing as I don't see too much oil out here, I like to keep a nice shine on my T-Road Pearl and Cherry Vibe.
Post by: tc300 on May 28, 2009, 04:27:30 PM
Post by: ccrider on May 29, 2009, 05:36:42 PM
I still have not found the right surface for my VG, drilled pin up, No. 1 drilling. At this point, I am more impressed with my Gravity Shift than either the HyRoad or VG. However, generally, the more time I spend with new balls, the more I seem to like them. I had my Gravity Shift for 6 months before I finally grew to appreciate the ball. (Shooting my first 700 series with it didn't hurt either.
I have held off on writing reviews on my VG or HyRoad because I think my problem is more one of finding the right surface and matching up, than whether the balls are good or bad. When I hit pay-dirt, I will post a review.
CC
--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: Beano on June 01, 2009, 07:25:17 AM
Having said that, at first it was very sensitive to how much speed, rotation and revs i put on the ball, but after i experimented a bit, it now does what i want it to, when i want it to. i like the surface as is and the length it gives me with this drilling - it rolls different to my other equipment and that is a good thing.
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It’s bush league psych-out stuff! Laughable, man!
Post by: Jorge300 on June 01, 2009, 08:03:41 AM
--------------------
Jorge300
Post by: titletowncards on June 01, 2009, 08:52:38 AM
Here's the information from Storm on how to get the ball back to as close to original as possible. It's worked great for me.
Here is a general FAQ I created to help answer your resurfacing questions. You may find it useful for your other equipment as well.
Thank you for contacting us with your concern. As far as ball reaction is concerned, we have several recommendations to maintain ball performance and life, but the primary area of concern is with the surface topography of the ball. As a quick over-view, surface topography in the bowling industry has been measured with specific ‘Ra’ and ‘Rs’ standards. These values directly relate to how aggressive the coverstock is and how much friction the coverstock can generate. The Ra value measures the standard deviations above or below the surface of the ball. For example, a series of high peaks and low valleys would be measured with an extremely high Ra value. Likewise, the Great Plains with a relatively smooth landscape and rolling hills would have a low Ra value. Rs isn’t as important, but by definition is the average distance between each individual peaks.
The reason these numbers are important is because of the correlation between ball reaction and high Ra and Rs values. Essentially, the greater the Ra and Rs number, the more friction the coverstock can generate. The more friction the coverstock can generate, the greater hook potential the ball will have. What happens when a ball dies is the coverstock has lost the surface deviations originally found on the ball from the out of box finish. These deviations (high Ra and Rs numbers) are created in our finishing and rounding process by creating deep grooves, cuts, and scars on the surface of ball. Later, when the ball is finished, these rough surface deviations are smoothed and ‘polished’ but they aren’t completely removed. If you were to then examine the coverstock on a micron level, the steep peaks and valleys would still be on the surface of the ball, but they would be rounded. This creates the type of ball motion where the ball will still skid through the heads and midlanes cleanly, but still have a tremendous amount of friction generation capabilities as the ball enters the buff or exits the pattern.
However, as the ball encounters normal use, these peaks slowly flatten and the valleys collapse. If measured after normal use, the once high Ra and Rs numbers would be much lower than the previous out of box finish. Hence, the ball slowly loses ball reaction with each use. Cleaning the surface will help keep the ball reaction consistent and also break down lane oil, but it isn’t capable of restoring original out of box Ra and Rs values. Luckily, our research has found a fairly simple method to restore the out of box finish.
In order to restore these numbers, abralon pads are recommended for virtually every ball in our current or past production line. The easiest and fastest way to refinish the ball is to use a 360 grit abralon pad on the ball. If the ball is being finished by machine, 60 seconds is usually sufficient whereas other methods may take longer. The whole idea is to thoroughly, cut, scar and groove the surface of the ball with the 360 grit pad. Before finishing the 360 grit, make sure the entire surface of the ball has been evenly cut. If it is done by hand or by a ball spinner, a cross-hatch finish is recommended. For the next stage, very lightly sand the surface with a 500 grit abralon pad. This will lower the Ra and Rs values slightly, but it isn’t going to completely destroy the surface deviations created from the previous stage.
After the ball has been lightly sanded with 500 grit abralon, please skip directly to the original out of box finish. For example a 4000 grit finish, no polish would require using a 360 grit abralon pad, then light application of a 500 abralon pad finally, skip the 1000 and 2000 stages and go directly to the 4000 finish. The 360 and 500 grit abralon pads will reproduce the original deep grooves and cuts from the factory rounding and finishing process setting the foundation for the final finish. Then, by skipping directly to the 4000 grit abralon stage, the surface will be smoothed and ‘polished’ without destroying the surface deviations. This effectively leaves the surface with the high peaks and deep valleys, but they aren’t as sharp or jagged. This should restore the original ball reaction allowing the ball to skid on oil, read the lighter buff areas of the pattern and still have amazing recovery potential on the backend.
For polished balls, reproduce the 360 and 500 grit finish and then apply Storm Step 2 Finishing Compound. This is the exact same finishing compound we use on all of our 1500 grit polished balls. The trick to the polish application is to use less polish and very light pressure. Step 2 Finishing Compound has a resurfacing medium in it that sands the ball while it is being polished over-application of the compound will effectively destroy the same surface deviations that originally gave the ball it’s strong out of box finish.
The key to restoring any finish is deeply cutting the ball with the fresh 360 grit abralon pad and then very lightly applying a 500 grit pad. The same is true of the final step as well. Over-application of the 1000, 2000, or 4000 grit pads can destroy the surface deviations created by the 360 and 500 steps weakening the over-all ball reaction.
Hopefully, if the sanding process has been repeated successfully, the end results will yield a ball with nearly the exact same Ra and Rs values originally found on the out of box finish restoring life back into the ball.
--------------------
titletowncards
Post by: Jorge300 on June 01, 2009, 02:16:10 PM
quote:
Jorge300,
Here's the information from Storm on how to get the ball back to as close to original as possible. It's worked great for me.
Here is a general FAQ I created to help answer your resurfacing questions. You may find it useful for your other equipment as well.
Thank you for contacting us with your concern. As far as ball reaction is concerned, we have several recommendations to maintain ball performance and life, but the primary area of concern is with the surface topography of the ball. As a quick over-view, surface topography in the bowling industry has been measured with specific ‘Ra’ and ‘Rs’ standards. These values directly relate to how aggressive the coverstock is and how much friction the coverstock can generate. The Ra value measures the standard deviations above or below the surface of the ball. For example, a series of high peaks and low valleys would be measured with an extremely high Ra value. Likewise, the Great Plains with a relatively smooth landscape and rolling hills would have a low Ra value. Rs isn’t as important, but by definition is the average distance between each individual peaks.
The reason these numbers are important is because of the correlation between ball reaction and high Ra and Rs values. Essentially, the greater the Ra and Rs number, the more friction the coverstock can generate. The more friction the coverstock can generate, the greater hook potential the ball will have. What happens when a ball dies is the coverstock has lost the surface deviations originally found on the ball from the out of box finish. These deviations (high Ra and Rs numbers) are created in our finishing and rounding process by creating deep grooves, cuts, and scars on the surface of ball. Later, when the ball is finished, these rough surface deviations are smoothed and ‘polished’ but they aren’t completely removed. If you were to then examine the coverstock on a micron level, the steep peaks and valleys would still be on the surface of the ball, but they would be rounded. This creates the type of ball motion where the ball will still skid through the heads and midlanes cleanly, but still have a tremendous amount of friction generation capabilities as the ball enters the buff or exits the pattern.
However, as the ball encounters normal use, these peaks slowly flatten and the valleys collapse. If measured after normal use, the once high Ra and Rs numbers would be much lower than the previous out of box finish. Hence, the ball slowly loses ball reaction with each use. Cleaning the surface will help keep the ball reaction consistent and also break down lane oil, but it isn’t capable of restoring original out of box Ra and Rs values. Luckily, our research has found a fairly simple method to restore the out of box finish.
In order to restore these numbers, abralon pads are recommended for virtually every ball in our current or past production line. The easiest and fastest way to refinish the ball is to use a 360 grit abralon pad on the ball. If the ball is being finished by machine, 60 seconds is usually sufficient whereas other methods may take longer. The whole idea is to thoroughly, cut, scar and groove the surface of the ball with the 360 grit pad. Before finishing the 360 grit, make sure the entire surface of the ball has been evenly cut. If it is done by hand or by a ball spinner, a cross-hatch finish is recommended. For the next stage, very lightly sand the surface with a 500 grit abralon pad. This will lower the Ra and Rs values slightly, but it isn’t going to completely destroy the surface deviations created from the previous stage.
After the ball has been lightly sanded with 500 grit abralon, please skip directly to the original out of box finish. For example a 4000 grit finish, no polish would require using a 360 grit abralon pad, then light application of a 500 abralon pad finally, skip the 1000 and 2000 stages and go directly to the 4000 finish. The 360 and 500 grit abralon pads will reproduce the original deep grooves and cuts from the factory rounding and finishing process setting the foundation for the final finish. Then, by skipping directly to the 4000 grit abralon stage, the surface will be smoothed and ‘polished’ without destroying the surface deviations. This effectively leaves the surface with the high peaks and deep valleys, but they aren’t as sharp or jagged. This should restore the original ball reaction allowing the ball to skid on oil, read the lighter buff areas of the pattern and still have amazing recovery potential on the backend.
For polished balls, reproduce the 360 and 500 grit finish and then apply Storm Step 2 Finishing Compound. This is the exact same finishing compound we use on all of our 1500 grit polished balls. The trick to the polish application is to use less polish and very light pressure. Step 2 Finishing Compound has a resurfacing medium in it that sands the ball while it is being polished over-application of the compound will effectively destroy the same surface deviations that originally gave the ball it’s strong out of box finish.
The key to restoring any finish is deeply cutting the ball with the fresh 360 grit abralon pad and then very lightly applying a 500 grit pad. The same is true of the final step as well. Over-application of the 1000, 2000, or 4000 grit pads can destroy the surface deviations created by the 360 and 500 steps weakening the over-all ball reaction.
Hopefully, if the sanding process has been repeated successfully, the end results will yield a ball with nearly the exact same Ra and Rs values originally found on the out of box finish restoring life back into the ball.
--------------------
titletowncards
Thanks!!
--------------------
Jorge300
Post by: Jayzero on June 05, 2009, 08:44:14 AM
Thanks everyone for your input, it's changed the way I'm looking at ALL of my surfaces now. I have a lot of hand and have never thought I could throw a dull ball on anything but desert, but Storm has truly created a great product that can get through the heads clean WITHOUT polish!
Thanks again!
--------------------
jayzero
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Average: 215
Rev Rate: High (375+)
Speed: Average (16.5-17.5 relaxed)
VAL: 5.25 over / .25 up
ALL Storm Arsenal:
Virtual Gravity
Dimension
Gravity Shift
Hy-Road
Street Rod Pearl
Jolt Pearl
Post by: Herbinator300 on June 06, 2009, 10:51:56 PM
Post by: Danes07 on June 06, 2009, 11:00:15 PM
I think right now its at 1000 matte or something like that and works well on the synthetic lanes I'm bowling on now.
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
STORM - The Bowlers Company
Harry E. Inglis 3/31/1915 - 2/3/2009