BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Storm => Topic started by: lefty50 on December 17, 2019, 09:04:09 PM
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Once again tonight in league I am reminded that I hate anything that even sniffs of particle Technology. I know the manufacturers don’t blatantly state it anymore but subtly change the terminology. Is there any guaranteed way for Storm equipment that I can guarantee before purchasing that I am working with something devoid of particle technology?
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NRG and MicroTrax covers
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Yep avoid any coverstock with micro or nano in the name.
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Does SPEC not count?
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No, SPEC actually has no additives in it at all as far as I know . . and yeah, definitely not the greatest idea for a lefty to throw NRG or MicroTrax on a house shot.
Does SPEC not count?
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Luke, I wonder if you're saying that because it hooks too much or seems pretty dead. With what I'm seeing, across brands (although I throw 75% Storm), particle is really smooth and lacks pop at the end. Does that sync with what you're saying?
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... With what I'm seeing, across brands (although I throw 75% Storm), particle is really smooth and lacks pop at the end. ...
I thought that was supposed to be the reaction of particle? Grab more in oil, use energy up sooner. Always worked best for me on heavier oil or some sport patterns.
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Some of the particle pearls have pretty good pop down lane imo on right conditions (Lane #1 Curve and Visionary Raven for example, technically Black Widow Pink is particle too) especially if there is some carry down where regular pearls would wiggle. Early friction tends to makes particle balls stand up early in general though (sorry being Mr. Obvious) and solid particle balls at least for me are overkill for house shot.
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MI, I agree. That's a lot of my point. As a low rev senior with a declining speed on top of everything else, using up energy sooner is a bad thing.
BFD, same agreement re: standing up early. This used to be a really bad thing for me and (IMHO) a major cause of most of my problem with corners. These days not so much because I'm much more aware.
Strangely enough, and maybe I'm wrong, the Idol and Halo were exactly same issue, but everything I see said they are not particle, but man, they sure acted like it for me.
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Strangely enough, and maybe I'm wrong, the Idol and Halo were exactly same issue, but everything I see said they are not particle, but man, they sure acted like it for me.
Idol and Halo use the same MicroTrax S18 cover, "particle" cover they just don't use the term nowadays.
If you open the tech sheet PDF from the Idol page on Roto's site, it mentions Nano technology
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My only big takeaway from posts about the Idol was that it used a nano cover. It's even in the stock description here on the site.
Correction: second takeaway was how much Luke loooooooves nano.
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Dang! Well, that makes sense and fits what my eye saw but my brain couldn't find. I hated both those balls.
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Some of the particle pearls have pretty good pop down lane imo on right conditions (Lane #1 Curve and Visionary Raven for example
Yah know... Jason at VBP was trying hard to make covers that didn't soak and yet still hooked.
Looking back on it.. The Raven with its light particle load rolled very similar to the Crux Prime, maybe a tad stronger off the spot being a pearl. I went back and watched my video, if i remember right it was not a complete fresh pattern but was not burnt either.
SPEC Small Particle Enhanced Cover? No soaky but some particle for traction???
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Yeah, I definitely do love nano . . but from the right side it's a different story. There's already plenty enough ball motion on the left side of the lane, so unless you have the volume, there's just no reason for it most of the time for most people.
Any "Micro" Roto cover is nano, and of course NRG balls from Storm are nano. There's also some blends, the Sure Lock cover for example also had nano in it.
My only big takeaway from posts about the Idol was that it used a nano cover. It's even in the stock description here on the site.
Correction: second takeaway was how much Luke loooooooves nano.
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Plenty of motion on the left side already?????? Ummmm. No.....
Curiosity though, what Storm balls do NOT have Nano in the current lineup?
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Well, more motion than is on the right side of wherever you're bowling at anyway. On a symmetric pattern, whatever ball motion a righty has, a lefty will have more and a stronger reaction. Lefties have less room to work with left to right, but the reaction is definitely stronger than the opposite side of the lane as well as sharper.
I'm not entirely sure . . I know R2S doesn't, so anything with R2S, not entirely sure about SureTrax on the Wild Streak, but I know eTrax doesn't, so Idol Pearl and Pro are safe, Hustles and MVPs are safe, Hyroads except the All Road are safe, Phaze 2 feels like there's some nano in it, I'd avoid the SPEC balls because they almost feel even more like nano than nano does, so you've still got a fair amount of stuff to work with. PhysiX has nano but really doesn't feel like it, pretty sharp off friction.
Plenty of motion on the left side already?????? Ummmm. No.....
Curiosity though, what Storm balls do NOT have Nano in the current lineup?
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Thanks. We'll have to agree to disagree on the left/right controversy and save that for next year. I've been avoiding SPEC because it looked too smooth, but I do love my Phaze II and thinking the Physix may be a good play. Wondering about Phaze III though also.
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Thanks. We'll have to agree to disagree on the left/right controversy and save that for next year. I've been avoiding SPEC because it looked too smooth, but I do love my Phaze II and thinking the Physix may be a good play. Wondering about Phaze III though also.
I find it interesting that you'll "agree to disagree" with the assessment of someone who has bowling skills with both hands. I only throw right handed, but bowl extensively with some very talented lefties. We've had many conversations on this subject and they pretty much go with Luke's take. Oh well.....
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Sorry Steven, but with 62 years under my belt on the lanes, I'll disagree with whoever I feel like regardless of their motion opinion. Some of it may be a low rev style but quite frankly brother, you can't have it both ways. You can't out of one side of your mouth have the literally thousands of conversations about lefties never being able to open the lane until game 3 and then say there's more backend. Those two statements are incompatible....
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Now I'am confused with this thread..I absolutly love my Crux Prime,Sync,Sure lock and my intense..Thats usually what I bring to my League throwing on a 42 ft ths..I play second arrow up the boards..There a total of 4 leftys including me in my league so I Have plenty of oil all night..Everything is pin up except my Sure lock is pin down under my ring finger..So what gives?
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NRg technology (particle) is a great thing when put in the right situation. It’s all about matching up correctly to the bowler, person throwing it.. Lots of factors involved in using it successfully. Lane condition, lane surface, bowlers ball speed, tilt, rotation, drilling, etc. For me with my slow speed I hated the idols with the particle technology, just burned up and quit on the backend. Most people around here kill it with the idols, just didn’t match up for my game. However love the hyroad nano (solid) and just drilled an all road (hybrid) which I love also. The higher rg of the roads with the nano covers match up well for me as long as I have some oil volume. Much smoother than the other hyroads which are hit and miss for me(can get over under and too hard off the spot) at times, especially on fresh. For me the higher rg of the roads paired with nano technology is a perfect match for my game. Looking forward to a nano (pearl) road which hopefully comes next. Happy new year and happy bowling to all.
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What are we talking about now? I have several years of experience on BOTH sides of the lane, so when it comes to a COMPARISON of one side of the lane vs the other, I have years of experience over someone else who only bowls on one side or the other regardless of how long they've bowled on that one side. Generally nano stuff is overkill on the left side ON A HOUSE SHOT, if you can use it, cool. Most house shots don't have the volume or the length for it to be effective. Smoother stuff in general tended to work better though because of the sharper and cleaner move on that side VS THE RIGHT SIDE.
I'm not sure who you were talking about as far as the thousands of comments about lefties not being able to open the lane up until late, but that side having more backend . . but I'll address that while we're here. Those aren't opposite, those aren't incompatible. The left side of the lane is tighter than the right, there's less area to get to the pocket, and with most of the time only your traffic on that side, it will take longer to "open up" and soften the reaction a little to where it's not so sharp and springy when you miss inside. So yes, both those things are accurate and can exist. It takes longer to "open the lane" up, which means to gain more area on the lane to hit the pocket from, BECAUSE the backends are stiffer on that side than they are on the right. Lefties have little to no miss room inside because of the sharper backends, and because the amount of traffic is lower over there, it takes longer for the lanes to open up . .
Just because they don't feel "sharp" to you, doesn't mean the strength of your motion isn't still stronger on your side of the lane than it is on the right side. I'm talking comparison, not hard and fast rules about the left side of the lane. I'm not saying the backends on the left side of the lane are sharp, I'm saying they're sharpER than the right side, that IS a thing. Righties have more room on the lane specifically because the ball motion on the backend isn't as sharp, that's why righties have more miss room inside . . because the backends aren't as strong or sharp on that side. I'm not sure what's being missed here.
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I bowled 20 years right handed - averaging 225 with 9-300 games and 3-800 series. I had to switch to lefty 12 years ago and have built myself up to now averaging 220 with 3-300 games but no 800 sets. Point is I’ve experienced both sides of the lane as Luke has and quite frankly he is spot on with the differences between the left and right side of the lane.
However what you have to remember Luke is this is a board where people can hide behind a screen and type whatever they want because they think they know everything. It’s why the pro shop business is sooo tough today because so many customers read crap on an Internet board and take it for gospel. Also good people get run away - see Brian Pursel and Phil Cardinale and others who previously posted here but keyboard pounders ran them off. Heck that’s why I switched screen names as well.
So Lefty - instead of arguing with 2 guys who have played both sides of the lanes maybe you should take time and let it sink in. Maybe that’s too much to ask but that is most bowlers today.
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Bowling- I understand your thoughts on that and I don’t know how long you have been here but back when several ball company reps would post here they were attacked on pretty much anything any of them said. Not snowflake stuff but actually targeted attacks. You know how many people who are employed by a ball company (not a staffer - an actual employee like Schlem) still post here? Maybe Phil and Nick once in a blue moon.
It went as far as members sending PMs as well in attacking them so the masses didn’t see the posts. So it’s not just these posts but the PMs which just became too much.
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Bowling- I understand your thoughts on that and I don’t know how long you have been here but back when several ball company reps would post here they were attacked on pretty much anything any of them said. Not snowflake stuff but actually targeted attacks. You know how many people who are employed by a ball company (not a staffer - an actual employee like Schlem) still post here? Maybe Phil and Nick once in a blue moon.
It went as far as members sending PMs as well in attacking them so the masses didn’t see the posts. So it’s not just these posts but the PMs which just became too much.
NP and that makes sense. Walked into the minefield that is this topic dumbly and deleted OP (was only questioning relevance of this topic to why insiders don't come here). I never attack people personally on here and in general usually don't question the knowledge of the insiders who have forgot more than I will ever know but sometimes when you sell things for a living some of the opinions stated may be slanted which might get some push back and is fair game imo (not really case in this thread). But personal attacks are garbage fully agree.
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Imo, particle technology nowadays is not even in the same country as the particle of yesteryear. The additives nowadays can make any cover smoother or snappier, and no one dare uses the word particle because it scares the crap out of people.
Now, since particle is out in the OPs mind, let me ask a question. Do you ever use surface? 4000,3000,2000? Have the particles you've tried been big assyms or low rg high diff?
Reason I ask is because not all additives are created equal. I have had several particle pearls that were long and strong.
As far as the debate about the left side vs the right side, the right side will always hook more and earlier unless the lanes are brand new. If you even have 10% of all bowlers be lefty, that means there is 9 times more play on the right, so it stands to reason the left would be cleaner and sharper because the surface is that much less beat up.
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Doom! As always , you nailed it again. :)
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You guys crack me up. Look in any league and you'll see older low rev players walk it up from the right side. You won't see that on the left. You'll say " 9 times more play on the right" and then avoid the fact that it becomes drier so the left is suddenly cleaner instead of flooded, but then you'll immediately admit that on, for example, a Nationals shot everyone has to "work together" to create a dry spot to get some friction... Hilarious. Fools.
I'm out.
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C'mon guys lefty50 isn't the problem, it's just all of you not getting it obv..... :o :P
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C'mon guys lefty50 isn't the problem, it's just all of you not getting it obv..... :o :P
Thanks GT2. At first I had no idea that so many folks (including me) don't get it, but lefty50 all by himself does. ???
I'm really going to have to mull this one over.....
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You guys crack me up. Look in any league and you'll see older low rev players walk it up from the right side. You won't see that on the left. You'll say " 9 times more play on the right" and then avoid the fact that it becomes drier so the left is suddenly cleaner instead of flooded, but then you'll immediately admit that on, for example, a Nationals shot everyone has to "work together" to create a dry spot to get some friction... Hilarious. Fools.
I'm out.
Kinda seems that you're just looking to pick a fight. That's cool. Happy new year!
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Nothing you said here is coherent, let alone makes any sense. Never seen lefties walk it up from the left side?? Right. So instead of just being cleaner and tighter to begin with, we somehow don't notice anything for the first two games of league until our side is beat up and THEN we say something? You want to know how many times I've bowled both lefty and righty on the same lane in a practice session? How many years I've done it and bowled league and tournaments and practiced and whatever else? Left side is cleaner and tighter than the right side, period. Ask literally any other lefty how much their side sucks while they watch righties get away with all kinds of things. I've never seen a flooded shot on the left side, never bowled on one, never seen any other lefty bowl on one.
CLEANER IS NOT AN OIL VOLUME. Cleaner means sharper, ball makes quicker and more dynamic moves. The left side is tougher than the right side in every single case I've seen and experienced, which is like 10-15 years worth. Just because I've only bowled 4 or 5 years of league lefty doesn't mean I haven't practiced at it for the last decade and a half. This is not my thing, I don't usually do this, but you just don't know what you're talking about. Also, if what you bowl on is flooded, but you can't use MicroTrax or Nano balls . . right . . I'd love to have a productive conversation, I'd love to hash it out or talk it out, but you clearly don't understand what I'm saying or what anyone else is saying, and we sure as hell don't know what you are either.
You guys crack me up. Look in any league and you'll see older low rev players walk it up from the right side. You won't see that on the left. You'll say " 9 times more play on the right" and then avoid the fact that it becomes drier so the left is suddenly cleaner instead of flooded, but then you'll immediately admit that on, for example, a Nationals shot everyone has to "work together" to create a dry spot to get some friction... Hilarious. Fools.
I'm out.
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You just gave me a great video idea too, so thanks for that . .
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You just gave me a great video idea too, so thanks for that . .
I'm hoping for a video that kills the trend of "mirror shots" that supposedly show how the ball will react when thrown on the other side of the lane. Reality doesn't work the way these videos are portraying it as...
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You just gave me a great video idea too, so thanks for that . .
I'm hoping for a video that kills the trend of "mirror shots" that supposedly show how the ball will react when thrown on the other side of the lane. Reality doesn't work the way these videos are portraying it as...
+1000. Always thought it was stupid.
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Yeah, that's the idea. I've got identically drilled Hyroad Pearls right now actually for each hand, they both have like 3 games on them, freshly drilled, so I'll make a video comparing them. I've always thought the same thing, and I've asked to be provided with an extra ball for the reviews to be able to throw both lefty and righty in a video. No bite on that, but yeah the mirroring thing just never has worked for me, because that's all it is. May show the reaction from the perspective than your brain has been accustomed to seeing it from, but my experience tells me that's not really accurate. Or not as accurate as I feel it should be anyway.
You just gave me a great video idea too, so thanks for that . .
I'm hoping for a video that kills the trend of "mirror shots" that supposedly show how the ball will react when thrown on the other side of the lane. Reality doesn't work the way these videos are portraying it as...
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You just gave me a great video idea too, so thanks for that . .
Whenever I see this nonsense I close the video. Don’t insult me by saying “flipped for lefty viewâ€.
I'm hoping for a video that kills the trend of "mirror shots" that supposedly show how the ball will react when thrown on the other side of the lane. Reality doesn't work the way these videos are portraying it as...