BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Storm => Topic started by: Brickguy221 on August 25, 2015, 10:41:18 AM
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I would think a company as popular as Storm would have top notch customer service, but I am not sure they do.
I Emailed Storm asking what balls in their line-up have the same size and shape core in their 12-13 lb balls as their 14-15-16 lb balls and I have heard nothing from them, so I will ask the same question here in the Storm Forum to see if anyone knows ... "What balls in Storm's line-up of balls have the same size and shape core in their 12-13 lb balls as their 14-15-16 lb balls?"
Motiv and Lane 1 puts the same size and shape core in all of their ball weights. Brunswick puts a generic core in all of their light weight balls except for the Strike King. Ebonite does the same as Brunswick except for their Cyclone line. In other words, you can't buy a light weight ball in the performance series from Brunswick and Ebonite that has the same size and shape core as the heavier balls in those line-ups.... Thus, my question as to what Storm does.
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Their website shows exactly what core is in each ball, some balls have the same core 12-16lbs others have a different core in the 12-13lb balls. All depends on what you want
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Looking at their site, the following seem to have the same core in all weights:
Pitch Black (urethane)
Crux (asymmetric hybrid)
Crux Pearl (asymmetric pearl)
Lock (asymmetric hybrid, releasing October 6)
Everything else seems to use modified cores in 12 and 13 lbs.
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They post a phone number as well… ..toll free
(800) 369 4402
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Motiv and Lane 1 puts the same size and shape core in all of their ball weights.
You do realize that in the lighter versions of most of Motiv's balls, the core specs/numbers are usually no better than the generic cores of other companies? It sounds like you think you're finding the same exact core in a 12 pound Primal Rage as you're finding in a 15 pound Primal Rage. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
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Motiv and Lane 1 puts the same size and shape core in all of their ball weights.
You do realize that in the lighter versions of most of Motiv's balls, the core specs/numbers are usually no better than the generic cores of other companies? It sounds like you think you're finding the same exact core in a 12 pound Primal Rage as you're finding in a 15 pound Primal Rage. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Core shape is a big factor in ball motion. Companies base their reactions off of the general 14-16 range thus people with medical conditions forced to throw lighter weights along with women who throw lighter weights are sometimes misled by descriptions of a ball reaction because it doesn't have the same shape because of using a different core.
Cover is 70/80/90% of ball reaction depending on how you look at it, but core shape makes a difference too especially in lighter weights
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Motiv and Lane 1 puts the same size and shape core in all of their ball weights.
You do realize that in the lighter versions of most of Motiv's balls, the core specs/numbers are usually no better than the generic cores of other companies? It sounds like you think you're finding the same exact core in a 12 pound Primal Rage as you're finding in a 15 pound Primal Rage. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
You are wrong, as the core specs/nos are better in Motiv balls than most balls in other companies. When I first had serious health problems in 2012 and then back surgery and being told to drop to 12# in 2013, I checked this out with Motiv, Brunswick, Storm, Ebonite, and Lane 1 and found that Motiv and Lane 1 were the only companies that put the same size and shape but less dense core in all of their balls regardless of ball weight, to give the lighter balls the same shape and movements as close as possible to the heavier balls.
The core in a 12# Rage is the exact same size and shape as it is in a 15# Rage. Go to the Motiv site and check the specs on all of their balls and you will find that the specs on 15# vs 12-13 lbs are very close with little difference between them. If a specific ball in 15# has an "xx" rg and "x" differential, you will find the 12# & 13# balls rg and differential are almost the same. If a specific 15# ball has an "xx" rg but a lower differential, you will find the 12# & 13# balls are almost the same.
Go to the Brunswick site and you will see for example, balls in 15# having say.050 differentials and their 12# & 13# balls will have differentials in the .020 something range. You won't find those type differences in Motiv. (note... I was a Brunswick guy at the time of all of my health problems, but per the example just given, I had to switch to Motiv because of that. Other wise, I would still be throwing Brunswick)
FYI, I have a 13# Primal Rage and it's rg and differential ( 2.60 & .055 ) are almost the same as a 15# Primal Rage ( 2.55 & .050 )
I have a 13# Octane and it's rg and differential ( 2.58 & .047 ) are almost the same as a 15# Octane ( 2.55 & .043 )
I have a 13# Tag and it's rg and differential ( 2.59 & .038 ) are almost the same as a 15# Tag ( 2.55 & .037 )
You won't find nos that run that close between ball weights in most other companies balls. It appears that Storm does something similar to Motiv in certain but not all balls whereas Brunswick only does it in one ball the Strike King and Ebonite likewise with the Cyclone
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Brick, you're over thinking this stuff. If you want to expand beyond Motiv, look at some of the Columbia balls. The Resurgence core in the Deliriums is one of the most successful cores ever developed, and the differentials are similar between weights.
On the other hand, if you like Motiv, why torture yourself with other choices? Keep it simple.
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Steven, I like Motiv and have had great success with some of their light weight balls such as the Rage, Scream, Octane, Thrash Frenzy, etc. These balls all have rgs and differentials that fit me perfect. However of late, they are producing few balls with those same rgs and differentials as the balls I mentioned, have. Most of their balls now have differentials in the .020 something up to the mid .030's or so, thus I have begun looking elsewhere and am exploring my options while I am out of bowling for the next 2 months recovering from my back surgery from last week.
When I returned from surgery in 2013, I picked the Scream and Thrash Frenzy to start and I couldn't have done a better job of picking a pair that worked perfectly for me as those 2 did plus a Storm Mix for corner pins.
I simply want what should work best for me when I am able to bowl again, providing I can bowl again. As you are aware, I have some other health problems also.
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Brick, you're over thinking this stuff. If you want to expand beyond Motiv, look at some of the Columbia balls. The Resurgence core in the Deliriums is one of the most successful cores ever developed, and the differentials are similar between weights.
On the other hand, if you like Motiv, why torture yourself with other choices? Keep it simple.
Steven, I just now checked on the Columbia balls and the Resurgence Core. That core is only available in 14-15-16 lb balls. The 12-13 lb balls have a generic core in that ball as well as the same generic core in all of their other 12-13 lb balls also.
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I just checked the Delirium, and for 13#, the posted RG is 2.53 and Diff is .055. Those are decent numbers.
I don't see specs listed for 12#.
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I just checked the Delirium, and for 13#, the posted RG is 2.53 and Diff is .055. Those are decent numbers.
I don't see specs listed for 12#.
The 12# specs are listed .. RG 2.60 and Diff .039
The 12# & 13# cores are generic cores. If you check every line of balls, the RG's and Differentials are the same for 12 & 13 in every line. The heavier balls nos change because the cores are different in each line, but the 12 & 13's don't, they stay the same, so that means the same generic core is used in all of the light weight balls.
Hey, it is almost 1:00 AM here in OK, so this old man has got to go to bed....yawn
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Brickguy - you've got me confusd!
First you say Motiv's cores in lighter balls are nearly identical to the heavier balls, then you go on to say "However of late, they are producing few balls with those same rgs and differentials as the balls I mentioned, have. Most of their balls now have differentials in the .020 something up to the mid .030's or so, thus I have begun looking elsewhere and am exploring my options"
FWIW, I'm not trying to troll you. A few around here will tell you that RG does not matter. Certain layouts enhance differential - look into layouts to increase differential into that zone you're comfortable with. I would not get super hung up on core specs - especially since you are not going for high-end asymmetric hook monsters. And as already said a billion times, cover is the most important aspect of the ball.
And finally, I applaud the effort you're giving in light of the health issues. Good luck in your comeback!
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Brickguy - you've got me confusd!
First you say Motiv's cores in lighter balls are nearly identical to the heavier balls, then you go on to say "However of late, they are producing few balls with those same rgs and differentials as the balls I mentioned, have. Most of their balls now have differentials in the .020 something up to the mid .030's or so, thus I have begun looking elsewhere and am exploring my options"
FWIW, I'm not trying to troll you. A few around here will tell you that RG does not matter. Certain layouts enhance differential - look into layouts to increase differential into that zone you're comfortable with. I would not get super hung up on core specs - especially since you are not going for high-end asymmetric hook monsters. And as already said a billion times, cover is the most important aspect of the ball.
And finally, I applaud the effort you're giving in light of the health issues. Good luck in your comeback!
Just guessing here but I think he is referring to the more recent releases from Motiv being lower differentials. The Redline, Tag, and Apex are all low differential balls. I guess doesn't like Asymmetrics since he didn't include the Remix.
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A few around here will tell you that RG does not matter. Certain layouts enhance differential - look into layouts to increase differential into that zone you're comfortable with. I would not get super hung up on core specs - especially since you are not going for high-end asymmetric hook monsters. And as already said a billion times, cover is the most important aspect of the ball.
And finally, I applaud the effort you're giving in light of the health issues. Good luck in your comeback!
Very good input…..
Brick, I think your stressing too much over the core. For my ball selections, I don't concern myself too much unless the RG and Differential numbers are at the extremes. If a generic core still has decent specs, I wouldn't dismiss the ball. That's what I looked for when I recently purchased a 13# Brunswick ball for my daughter. The core is the 12-13# version, but it still has plenty of backend movement.
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Brickguy - you've got me confusd!
First you say Motiv's cores in lighter balls are nearly identical to the heavier balls, then you go on to say "However of late, they are producing few balls with those same rgs and differentials as the balls I mentioned, have. Most of their balls now have differentials in the .020 something up to the mid .030's or so, thus I have begun looking elsewhere and am exploring my options"
FWIW, I'm not trying to troll you. A few around here will tell you that RG does not matter. Certain layouts enhance differential - look into layouts to increase differential into that zone you're comfortable with. I would not get super hung up on core specs - especially since you are not going for high-end asymmetric hook monsters. And as already said a billion times, cover is the most important aspect of the ball.
And finally, I applaud the effort you're giving in light of the health issues. Good luck in your comeback!
I agree with you on the rg's. I have no problem there, but do have a problem with the differentials. I have always done better with high differential balls. I also agree that the differential can be enhanced...... to a point, that is. With my doing best with differentials in the range of .048 and up, you can't take a ball with a .020 differential and make it have a .048 and up differential.
For your being confused over what I said about rgs and differentials, read amyers post as he understood what I was saying or trying to say.
And ... thanks for the nice comments in reference to my health
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Just guessing here but I think he is referring to the more recent releases from Motiv being lower differentials. The Redline, Tag, and Apex are all low differential balls. I guess doesn't like Asymmetrics since he didn't include the Remix.
amyers gets it....
He is spot on with what he said here in reference to the Tag, Apex, and I will add the Panic, 2 Venoms, Tribal, and etc. As for the Remix, it has great specs and is the same as my old Scream and my Rage and if I was needing a ball for heavier oil, I would not hesitate to buy it as it's specs are perfect for me.
However, in needing ball(s) for the conditions I bowl on, under my Rage and Octane, all of the recent Motiv balls have low differentials and too low for me. I recently bought a Tag against my better judgement because of it's low differential and sure enough, it has been a bad match for me as I feared it would be.
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Brick, I think your stressing too much over the core. For my ball selections, I don't concern myself too much unless the RG and Differential numbers are at the extremes. If a generic core still has decent specs, I wouldn't dismiss the ball. That's what I looked for when I recently purchased a 13# Brunswick ball for my daughter. The core is the 12-13# version, but it still has plenty of backend movement.
Steven, I don't stress over rgs, but do get concerned and rightfully so, over differentials as mentioned in 2 different posts above this one. If a generic core with good specs was good enough in any ball, then the ball companies would use the same generic core in every ball they make. However, they don't do that. They put different cores in different balls for a reason and in addition to different covers, these different cores give different shapes and looks for each line of balls. Some are made to flip, some aren't made to flip ... some are made to break late and some early, some are made to arc and some not made to arc and etc.
I realize that you don't concern yourself over rg's and differentials but I am sure there is something you concern yourself with when you buy a ball and in my case, I concern myself over differentials but not rgs, but I doubt I concern myself over the same things you concern yourself over when you buy a ball. To sum it up, we all have concerns when buying a ball but each of our concerns are different from the other person.
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http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/punchout
The diff in the generic core in the Punch Out at 13lbs (.045) is higher than the diff in the 15lb ball with the Turbine core (.038). This could possibly fit under your Rage and Octane.
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FWIW, the advertised RG & Diff are of balls without holes. After drilling the new RG & Diff aren't anything near what the advertised specs are.
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FWIW, the advertised RG & Diff are of balls without holes. After drilling the new RG & Diff aren't anything near what the advertised specs are.
That is true. I don't care about the rg as I have found that I can work with any rg. My concern is the differential as I have found out the expensive way, that low differentials both before and after drilling don't and won't work for me.
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http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/punchout
The diff in the generic core in the Punch Out at 13lbs (.045) is higher than the diff in the 15lb ball with the Turbine core (.038). This could possibly fit under your Rage and Octane.
Thanks. I may just look at that ball when-if I am able to return to bowling again, hopefully sometime in Nov. as well as any other balls that might surface between now and then. I like the shape on the lanes they show on that ball also. That generic core just might work for me.
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Just my personal opinion;
You have to look at the entire reason for a design ,and intent. There is a high probability that lighter weight balls are being used by people who are going to be throwing the ball "slower" than average. In the prop shop industry, it is more often than not, that slower speeds tend to have better ball reaction with less aggressive core numbers. So with that said, it makes sense that lighter weight balls will use cores that have higher Rg's and less differential built in to it.
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Just my personal opinion;
You have to look at the entire reason for a design ,and intent. There is a high probability that lighter weight balls are being used by people who are going to be throwing the ball "slower" than average. In the prop shop industry, it is more often than not, that slower speeds tend to have better ball reaction with less aggressive core numbers. So with that said, it makes sense that lighter weight balls will use cores that have higher Rg's and less differential built in to it.
I hear ya and agree with you about slower speed people. However, In my case, I throw 12# harder than 14# & 15# and throw 13# harder than 14# % 15#, but not quite as hard as 12#. Thus, I need aggressive core numbers. I don't throw 12# & 13# balls because I am 78+ and an old man. I throw those light weights because of back problems.
I just had my second back surgery last week, having had my first one 22 months ago. The Dr told me 10# on bowling balls, especially considering that I may have to have 2 more vertebrae repaired in the near future. I fussed with him and he finally told me 12# and no more. 9 months ago, I sneaked up to 13# and now I am out again.
To sum it up, were not for my back problem, I would still be throwing 14# & 15# bowling balls @ approx 13-14 mph. With 12# it is more like 14-15 mph or a wee bit more, thus the need for aggressive cores.