Post by: Storm269 on June 29, 2008, 07:42:09 PM
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In my bag :
Attitude Shift Gravity Shift Buzzsaw Clear Diamond
Post by: Oldskool2 on June 30, 2008, 04:36:38 AM
Antoine
Post by: riggs on June 30, 2008, 08:56:35 AM
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=198944&ForumID=13&CategoryID=2
Post by: Brickguy221 on June 30, 2008, 09:02:43 AM
I had a Cell and my Dimension hooks more than my Cell did..
They where both drilled pin up but the Dimension is drilled a tad bit stronger and its symetric (no marked mass bias) where the Cell is asymetric with a marked mass bias..
The Dimension hooks about 3-4 boards more than my Cell did..
On Edit: The Cell is a great ball and it will move in oil with the best of them but this ball just has a different roll to me than the Cell.. There is just no quit in this Dimension. I played outside 18-5 and then moved deep inside and the ball still made the move back to the pocket with great carry.. Very few 10's..
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: abrown on June 30, 2008, 09:13:55 AM
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" when you dislodge your head from your a@! make sure to whipe your eyes"
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 09:28:11 AM
thanks, thats what I was going to post..
For me, the Dimension is much more continuous thru the pins..
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Post by: Oldskool2 on June 30, 2008, 11:42:15 AM
When I try to predict the reaction of a ball I look at RG and DIF and ofcourse coverstock.
The coverstock is about the same. RG is almost equal. The only big difference is found in the DIF. This is much higher for the Cell.
So I would predict that the Cell and Dimension with the same layout would be picking up at the same part of the lane, but the cell being stronger overall.
Every review so far stated that the Cell is earlier and the Dimension has more overall hook. so more flare potential does not equal more overall hook? or do people confuse more backend with more hook?
Every time I think I know a little about equipment, something comes around and confuses me.
It's becoming a hard choice between these two.
Post by: bowler851 on June 30, 2008, 12:03:57 PM
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 12:08:21 PM
I see tons of Cells being used and am sure in time will see alot of Dimension's..
quote:
Put it this way if you bowl on a THS You will have no use for either ball without lots of polish, I hated my Cell at first then I polished it with Storm polish and it became the first ball out of the bag on first shift league night. My opinion is if you do not bowl in a PBA Experience league you have very little need for 90% of the equipment that is coming out these days.
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 12:09:09 PM
For me, the Cell was not stronger..
quote:
Interesting to read the reviews and compare them with the stats of the ball.
When I try to predict the reaction of a ball I look at RG and DIF and ofcourse coverstock.
The coverstock is about the same. RG is almost equal. The only big difference is found in the DIF. This is much higher for the Cell.
So I would predict that the Cell and Dimension with the same layout would be picking up at the same part of the lane, but the cell being stronger overall.
Every review so far stated that the Cell is earlier and the Dimension has more overall hook. so more flare potential does not equal more overall hook? or do people confuse more backend with more hook?
Every time I think I know a little about equipment, something comes around and confuses me.
It's becoming a hard choice between these two.
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Edited on 6/30/2008 12:09 PM
Post by: bowler851 on June 30, 2008, 12:26:08 PM
you are right to a point we had alot of Cells in our league last year in OOB, but they are mostly thrown by you once a week hack, the top average bowlers in the league all throw polished equipment.(220+ average)
Post by: SVstar34 on June 30, 2008, 12:30:09 PM
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My Arsenal:
Twisted Fury
Raw Hammer Pain
Blue Vibe
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 12:49:29 PM
Just different lane conditions I guess..
quote:
jkiser01
you are right to a point we had alot of Cells in our league last year in OOB, but they are mostly thrown by you once a week hack, the top average bowlers in the league all throw polished equipment.(220+ average)
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 12:51:24 PM
The Cell does start up a little bit sooner but the Dimension "for me" has more overall hook.. Let me say it again, the Cell is a great ball.. I just prefer the ball reaction the Dimension has..
quote:
This is where many people get confused. Almost any person I know that is not an avid bowler, and just does the 1 league a week and wants his/her ball to hook as much as possible. They see a strong backend, so they think more hook. Dimension might move more on the back, where the Cell starts up a little sooner in the mid-lane. Most think Dimension hooks more, because it will respond to friction with a stronger move to the hole
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My Arsenal:
Twisted Fury
Raw Hammer Pain
Blue Vibe
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Edited on 6/30/2008 1:01 PM
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 30, 2008, 01:06:08 PM
Yes Cell reads about 3-4 feet earlier but it just does not hit as well when i have tried both, for higher rev players i can see finer surfaces and/or polish being used. I sure hope they make some blem Dimension balls that end up on ebay cheap, I could see having 3-4 of these all alittle different in surface and drills.
Should have the S75 Break and BW Venom soon, so I will be able to compare heads up and see who the new backend champ is.
Had my Dimension out with The Break, BW Bite, BW Pearl, Terminator Rebellion yesterday and it was the biggest backend reaction of the group with the Bite right behind it. All were within 2-3 boards total and the ball reactions were enough of a difference to see each balls movement. The Rebellion is cleaner through the front and is very angular move, it is also a ball too consider for the same ball reaction.
As you can see I do not love the early hooking stuff and will drill earlier stuff for later revs anyway, pure roll just never seems to hit well in my area here in Vegas. You need cleaner through the front and backend movement the last 15 feet, that seems to work best here for most players.
quote:
Thats not what I want, I want a ball that is controllable and hooks 5-10 boards.. Thats all that is needed..
The Cell does start up a little bit sooner but the Dimension "for me" has more overall hook..quote:
This is where many people get confused. Almost any person I know that is not an avid bowler, and just does the 1 league a week and wants his/her ball to hook as much as possible. They see a strong backend, so they think more hook. Dimension might move more on the back, where the Cell starts up a little sooner in the mid-lane. Most think Dimension hooks more, because it will respond to friction with a stronger move to the hole
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My Arsenal:
Twisted Fury
Raw Hammer Pain
Blue Vibe
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Edited on 6/30/2008 1:09 PM
Post by: Oldskool2 on June 30, 2008, 02:05:47 PM
quote:
Don't forget about the core in each ball.. Totally different..
For me, the Cell was not stronger..
As far as I know RG and Differential are core numbers. Yes, the core is totally different in shape, but what do the numbers mean if this shape is so important.
Maybe a good item for a new topic.
Greetings,
Antoine
Post by: charlest on June 30, 2008, 02:49:30 PM
This ball is 6 months newer therefore it has to be better ....
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 30, 2008, 03:01:12 PM
quote:
This is all actually quite humorous.
This ball is 6 months newer therefore it has to be better ....
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Post by: Dan Belcher on June 30, 2008, 03:07:35 PM
quote:I think it's also because anything that goes longer and hooks more on the backend is immediately perceived as "better" by a lot of people.
This is all actually quite humorous.
This ball is 6 months newer therefore it has to be better ....
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 03:11:41 PM
IMO, how long a ball has bean out is not that important in this conversation..
The Cell is a great pieces, I had one for quite some time before I sold it. I just got the Dimension and so far I like it alot.. Different people match up better with certain balls, thats a given..
quote:
This is all actually quite humorous.
This ball is 6 months newer therefore it has to be better ....
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 03:13:32 PM
Thats a great point and I agree some people want "hook in a box" but for me I don't care if something hooks more or not. I look at overall ball reaction and how it rolls "for me"..
quote:quote:I think it's also because anything that goes longer and hooks more on the backend is immediately perceived as "better" by a lot of people.
This is all actually quite humorous.
This ball is 6 months newer therefore it has to be better ....
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Post by: nospareball on June 30, 2008, 04:02:06 PM
If you've ever watched the Cell seminar videos with Hank Boomershine there is a part where he compares the Cell and the Odyssey. During the video he pauses the tape when both balls are about 40ft downlane and points out that the Cell has already flared 3-4in at that point. The Odyssey on the other hand hasn't flared much at all. When he unpauses the tape the Odyssey breaks loose and flares all at once in the last 20ft. The Cell also continues to flare all the way through the pin deck.
To my eyes the Dimension makes a move much like the Odyssey does, lots of flare in the last 20ft and the ball goes sideways. It's a powerful move and impressive, and acts much like a asymmetrical ball. On the other hand, the Cell's movement acts more like a symmetrical ball even know it's an asymmetrical piece.
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-Clint
Post by: Oldskool2 on June 30, 2008, 04:09:13 PM
I have the Rapid Fire for lenght and decent hook. I took it to 2000 Abralon because it was to flippy for me.
Now I need a ball that starts its hook earlier and has a controlled arc. Important is that it keeps going on the backend. It is the replacer for my Big One, so low RG and high DIF.
It was the Cell for me for all the time, until "the countdown" started.
It is not a question of which one is better, but which I need to fill the gap.
Sorry DC38 for hijacking your topic.
Post by: dware300 on June 30, 2008, 04:11:14 PM
Post by: Locke on June 30, 2008, 04:28:54 PM
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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it
Known Cell pimp
Post by: charlest on June 30, 2008, 05:20:16 PM
quote:
Charlest, I respect your opinion but..
IMO, how long a ball has bean out is not that important in this conversation..
The Cell is a great pieces, I had one for quite some time before I sold it. I just got the Dimension and so far I like it alot.. Different people match up better with certain balls, thats a given..quote:
This is all actually quite humorous.
This ball is 6 months newer therefore it has to be better ....
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
JK,
Your opinion, I respect. I know you did more to compare these balls, but, in general, well, you know the story. People never bother to drill the balls the same or even close nor to throw them on the same conditions, nor to make sure it's new ball vs new ball, etc.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Edited on 6/30/2008 6:13 PM
Post by: jkiser01 on June 30, 2008, 05:22:40 PM
To be honest, a person could go wrong buying either one of these balls..
quote:quote:
Charlest, I respect your opinion but..
IMO, how long a ball has bean out is not that important in this conversation..
The Cell is a great pieces, I had one for quite some time before I sold it. I just got the Dimension and so far I like it alot.. Different people match up better with certain balls, thats a given..quote:
This is all actually quite humorous.
This ball is 6 months newer therefore it has to be better ....
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
JK,
Your opinion, I respect I know you did more to compare these balls, but, in general, well, you know the story. People never bother to drill the balls the same or even close nor to throw them on the same conditions, nor to make sure it's new ball vs new ball, etc.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Edited on 6/30/2008 5:21 PM
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Edited on 6/30/2008 5:23 PM
Post by: Mike James on July 01, 2008, 08:10:31 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on July 01, 2008, 08:12:31 AM
quote:What you say is exactly why I put a pretty weak drilling on my Cell. I can stay in my comfort zone and swing it less while keeping the great ball motion and pin carry the Cell is known for.
Everyone brings out good points on both balls....I use to have the Cell and not knowing better i had it drilled like my other stuff..(strong drilling)...bad mistake...being s stroker and its important to mention that because i have to line up closer to the track area than a cranker does...and yes the Cell grabs much earlier and therefore rolls out...moving left is tricky as well because i needed to get the ball like out to 45ft and the ball being a continuous hooking ball, couldn't get it back strong enough to the pocket...polishing helped a bit but created other problems...so for THS it wasn't a good matchup....will recieve my Dimension in a few days and will post back with the results
Post by: Nicanor on July 01, 2008, 10:05:03 AM
In the bag:
Special Agent (polished)
Shift
Rival
Megaton Hybrid
Mighty Shift
Blue Dot
Also working with Heist drilled Rico, Buzzbomb, Supernova XP and the Complete NV and Ultra Zone both that I have had no luck with. Again, its probably me.
Didn't mtch up well with the Gravity Shift or the ttitude Shift.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: srlunatic on July 01, 2008, 06:25:39 PM
I wonder what a similiarlly drilled Dimension and Cell would look like with the tape on PAP trick?
Sorry just rambling...:-)
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“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
Post by: Jay on July 04, 2008, 02:45:38 AM
Post by: charlest on July 04, 2008, 05:31:04 AM
quote:
Would you guys say that both of these are true oilers, or just the Dimension?
Both.
quote:
My guess is they both can be, but the Dimension is likely preferred by most.
Nope, only by those with less revs. I have medium at most and find the Cell enough for the heaviest of oil but have not yet used it on a pattern like the Shark.
quote:
It's a great piece from what I see. At the least, someone with less than 350 revs could use either on Medium-Heavy right?
I have to believe that your rev rate is not the deciding factor unless you're relatively low, like less than 200. The deciding factor will likely be your ball speedrev/rate ratio. You can take these balls down to 600 or 1000 grit, drill them with leverage pin positions and strong weight holes and, then, even low rev rate people can use them on true heavy oil. These are also very flexible and versatile balls. PLUS the Cell has an asymmetric core, which means even more options for getting ball reactions.
I think you still don't get the real picture of how good these balls are, or can be.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Post by: Dan Belcher on July 04, 2008, 12:35:19 PM
quote:quote:
My guess is they both can be, but the Dimension is likely preferred by most.
Nope, only by those with less revs. I have medium at most and find the Cell enough for the heaviest of oil but have not yet used it on a pattern like the Shark.
250rpm rev rate here and always speed dominant even when I try to throw it slow. Due to a decided lack of friction on the Shark last night, I played out and pointed it from the 6 board at the arrows to the pocket with very, very little hook with my Cell. It worked out very well. The ball barely moved, but the carry was amazing. I just had to be accurate, as is always the case when trying to play out on the Shark. Still shot 20 pins per game higher than I ever have on that pattern before.
quote:I agree.
I think you still don't get the real picture of how good these balls are, or can be.
Post by: BallsDeep on July 04, 2008, 12:49:42 PM
Secondly, I have a higher rev rate (north of 350) have little tilt and higher ball speed. For me, the Cell was very strong and difficult to use on medium oil. It has a higher pin position to try to get it through the heads, but it was very angular on the backend and worked best on heavier volumes of oil.
As a short aside, I did get great hit out of the ball, but oddly enough (as this is an weird, biased, and subjective critique) I felt that I sent alot of blanks (messengers in front of the ten pin that didn't hit anything) with the ball. I don't exactly know why this was the case, but I'd love to know how a sanded ball, on medium/hvy, kicks the ten to the side wall and doesn't get it back far enough to kick out the ten.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]
Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: charlest on July 04, 2008, 04:01:25 PM
Quote
To me, one of the main reasons that people believe newer stuff to hook more than older stuff is actually ball death. People throw the Cell for 5 to 6 months without cleaning it and then cut up a fresh dimension and try to compare the two. Even with cleaning, there is going to be some depreciation in hook, but without (as most bowlers do), the change is huge.Quote
I so did not want to get into this subject, but it remains entirely possible!
(he ducks and runs away to fight another day ....)
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Post by: Jay on July 04, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
quote:
I think you still don't get the real picture of how strong these balls are, or can be.
Fixed.
Would you say you're speed dominant, rev dominant, or about equal? Also, is "medium revs" around 300? I'm told I have a rev rate close to that, give or take and I'm rev dominant or equal I think.
Post by: Storm269 on July 04, 2008, 09:04:23 PM
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In my bag :
CELL Gravity Shift Buzzsaw Clear Diamond