Author Topic: Ethical dilemma (Read 9864 times)

riggs · « **on:** February 22, 2011, 11:13:50 PM »

I am thinking it is wrong to use my new VIRTUAL GRAVITY NANOs in any competition until March 1, when they become available to the public.

You all agree?

PBA rules prohibit the use of any ball until after its release date of availability for PBA members. (They were OK for the USBC Masters.)

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

riggs · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:45:29 AM »

And I generally use a ball on 2-3 conditions for at least 10 games before I want to write an initial review ... and I try to come back and update after using it more.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:49:43 AM »

See, we're really in agreement on this issue!

Joe

riggs wrote on 2/23/2011 11:44 AM:
I have not bowled a PBA TOUR event since 2002 so I was not aware of how it is with the Truck out there now.

Personally, I don't think anyone should be able to use any ball in any competition until it has become available for purchase by anyone else bowling in that competition. This is simple fairness. Being "better" (on staff) shouldn't enable me or anyone else to get a POTENTIAL advantage in any competition.

If everyone at the Masters couldn't go to the Truck and buy a NANO then no one should have been able to use it, IMO. The only advantage staff should give is getting breaks on equipment, not getting it before the public can.

FYI: I've been saying for some time that no ball introduced after the start of the USBC Open Championships should be able to be used by anyone in the tournament. It's the same principal.

Ball tech has pretty much peaked, IMO, but what if there is another XCALIBUR and some get to use it at USBC OC and others don't?

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

T C 300 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:10:33 AM »

wonder ppl know this "is a rule" and have ever tried to protest it in a league or tourny..

sounds like it would be enforced...

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:57:55 AM »

If the ball is on the USBC approved list, its legal in all USBC competition. This would include most leagues and tourneys. Most balls are submitted for approval well before even the staffers get them and before PBA approves them.

T C 300 wrote on 2/23/2011 12:10 PM:
wonder ppl know this "is a rule" and have ever tried to protest it in a league or tourny..

sounds like it would be enforced...

Daleswmn · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2011, 12:11:02 PM »

I don't know how the staff thing works so I will defer to Riggs on this but from what I understand is that you get a few of a new model to put them through their paces so many days before the rest of the membership and so many days before the release date. \

Is that not an advantage over your competitors for at least a block in a tournament?

Great discussion!

On a side note, would like to hear more about what your obligations are to be on staff Riggs. Do you give feedback to the company as well as review the new stuff? I am not interested in compensation as it is none of my business.

I did buy a Victory Road after reading your review.

Dale

Daleswmn · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2011, 12:34:59 PM »

Is the NANO legal for use this week at the US Open?

SKIDSNAP · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2011, 12:48:40 PM »

Jeff,

By your own admission that there is no new groundbreaking equipment that would provide you with an extreme advantage; then what is the difference whether you are throwing a blue ball or a purple ball or a teal ball as long as it is USBC approved for competition?

Why wait for the release date when it is your privilege to have the opportunity to throw and report on a new model?

In golf; professionals are often using prototype equipment that might never be available to their competitors. As long as it meets USGA and R&A rules the clubs are acceptable for use in competition. There does not seem to be a competitive issue in their world.

In bowling you still have to repeat shots to score. The equipment, by your own words, does not have a significant effect on the results versus the equipment currently available.

What do you think???

raiderh20boy · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2011, 12:53:22 PM »

Ethical-not ethical???

I have been fortunate to be "staffed" and get seed balls for quite some time now. I have not used these balls in tournament/league competition before they are available for general use BUT.... I made sure I "showed them off" before league practicing and then changing to different equipment for league to show the differences.

UNFORTUNATELY I will be having a knee replacement Mar 1 and I am not able to "SHOW OFF" this latest ball from Storm even though I drilled it 3 weeks ago !!!!!!

Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2011, 01:24:34 PM »

Jeff,

while i did post a response to the same question on your Facebook... I'm going to say this which is basically the same, but also with a different answer too..

If you are conflicted personally with using the ball before anyone else in the general public can use the ball then dont use it... But Storm did send you the balls for a reason, and that is to use the ball in league's and tournaments, before the general public can get thier hands on said ball. So thats kinda the perk of being a Staffer. While I do agree that i doubt we as bowlers will ever see a explosion in new technology like the Excalibur, I dont think the Nano is really any different from any other ball.... It's the indian not the arrow....

Unless the carry on this ball is Sick, IE carry's everything in the pocket.... i dont see this ball being any advantage over the Marvel / Victory Road or anything else that is new from Storm or Roto Grip...

But thats just my 2cents... I dont think whatever your choice is when you goto Nationals, anyone is going to question your character about it. if they do then, they obviously dont know you personally... ( not saying I do ) but I do understand where you are comming from....

" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl "

For my vids on youtube - search DLYskes1976
or look for me on facebook

tburky · « **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2011, 02:29:33 PM »

"I am thinking it is wrong to use my new VIRTUAL GRAVITY NANOs in any competition until March 1, when they become available to the public.

You all agree?

PBA rules prohibit the use of any ball until after its release date of availability for PBA members. (They were OK for the USBC Masters.)"

No you are a PBA member so you should be allowed. I got the vip ball from my pro shop and drilled it with the understanding I could not use it in league until the public release date. That is with all vip balls I end up drilling.

Edited by tburky on 2/23/2011 at 3:30 PM

Track_Fanatic · « **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2011, 03:00:26 PM »

As much as I understand Riggs' point, there is nothing in the USBC rule book that states a professional cannot use a ball that has already been cleared by both the USBC and available to all PBA members prior to the public release date.

I totally agree with him that any new equipment that comes out after the start of Nationals should not be used during the Nationals since it is an ongoing tournament.

With the availability to PBA members before it comes available to the public, do you think the pro's should be allowed to use the equipment in PBA tournaments if a non-member bowls in the same tournament?

I think everything can be debated about this subject. What is really ethical in these scenarios?

Ethical vs rules. Why do they have to be different? Why can't they all be the same?

riggs · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2011, 07:37:00 PM »

NANOs were PBA cleared for the Masters so they definitely are for the US Open.

They were USBC approved before anybody got them ... so it's not about rules. Thanks for all the thoughts from everyone. Probably won't use them this weekend.

Definitely think no balls introduced after start of USBC OCs should be legal for that tourney!

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

urbanshaft · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:01:10 PM »

youre a staffer,isnt your job suppose to be promote the brand?for me it be like the same as if i got a overseas ball that nobody around could get.just because nobody else has it doesnt give me a advantage.and who even says its the right ball for the tournament.just should use it and have a blast doing so and consider yourself lucky

Locke · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:10:26 PM »

I am completely seeing your point, but what I am saying is that if it is not one of those balls that changes the technology profoundly it is just another ball. I can not see how it is giving you an unfair advantage so I do not see how it is unsportsmanlike. If it bothers you don't use it but I would have no problem using it since it is just another ball. And like I said before, if you wait until March 1 how many people you face will have the ball? So then isn't it only right to wait until everyone has had several days after the release date to make sure that if they want to get it they will. i am not looking to start a fight here but it really is just another ball and I would have no problem using it because it just will not give me an unfair advantage.

riggs wrote on 2/23/2011 8:50 AM:Locke especially you are completely missing the point. It is not the real-world impact -- I'm one of those who think that ball technology has essentially peaked and don't think there would be any huge advantage in using the NANO. I don't think we'll ever see anything like the XCALIBUR again.

This is a matter of principal and doing the right thing and being a sportsman. I am 100 percent sincere with this. If you don't get any of that you clearly are NOT a sportsman.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Edited by riggs on 2/23/2011 at 8:50 AM

Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it

riggs · « **Reply #30 on:** February 24, 2011, 06:53:58 AM »

Locke those are good points. Did roll them for a bit Wednesday afternoon and they definitely do roll great but they are not anything revolutionary like an XCALIBUR -- don't think we'll ever see anything like that again.

Have a person or two to talk to on this before I make a final decision.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Author Topic: Ethical dilemma (Read 9864 times)

riggs

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