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Author Topic: Short pattern balls  (Read 5689 times)

storm_fan

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Short pattern balls
« on: May 19, 2010, 10:36:06 AM »
I made a post in another fourm about ball selection on the viper/cheetah to control the backend.  I have a 15.5-16 mph ball speed with about a 325 rev rate.  I use storm and rotogrip equipment and looking to bowl alot this fall in the regionals.  I have talked to several pro shops and got differant answers from all them so I thought I'd give this a try.  Something weeker with a strong layout seems to be over/under, so would something strong with a week layout be the way to go?  Thanks.
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charlest

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2010, 09:24:21 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
I think I'm gonna have to swing the Natural into my lineup more often.  I bowled on Cheetah for the first time in years last night, and was surprised to see that I had to clear about the first 10 feet to keep the ball right.  I must say I was quite shocked to see my Fast and Dark Star(in profile) peel off the spot as soon as the pattern ended.

Even more odd was that my Mars went in a straight line.  I do have a higher coat of polish on the Mars than my Nomad, Fast, and Dark Star...
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Definitely strange, the difference between the DS and the Mars. Try setting the Mars to slightly less gloss or less fine a finish. There should be that much difference between them. The Mars (not exactly a weak coverstock) should be a step below the DS. I think you'd need a good deal of polish on the Natural to fit it below the Mars. Probably still need some polish on the Natural to make it fit below the DS, if you left the Mars unchanged.
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Charles,

That's what I'm contemplating.  I was also thinking putting the high polish back on my Nomad, Fast and Dark Star, not only to allow it to go further down the lane but make its move later as well.  Doing this would also bring the Dark Star closer to the Mars, no?
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Yes, it should bring it closer, but you're comparing 2 very different balls. So it's kind of difficult to predict. They might show different ball reaction on one lane surface + oil pattern, and similar ball reactions on a second lane surface + oil pattern. House oil patterns may show similarities, while Sport or PBA patterns will show truer differences. It can be a juggling act.

May I suggest you use a non-abrasive polish like Snake Oil or Lanemaster Factory Finish polish to insure you're not changing the underlying grit level, but only adding length?


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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2010, 09:28:42 PM »
quote:
Would the mars work on the cheetah?  I tried a natural that was my friends and I didn't get along with it.  He had a 4 x 4 with a think a 3 inch buffer and he did good with it.  I threw it on a 38' house shot and left my first ever  5-7-10 and almost had the 8 pin but it fell late.


That is an example of the proper answer: it depends on your delivery/release (rev rate, ball speed, tilt, etc) and the drilling and the surface preparation.

I can't say exactly what went wrong for you, but since he did OKAY with it, for you, it could have been a matter of a lower rev rate or a higher ball speed or it just wasn't drilled right for you, that caused that horrible leave.

quote:

 I just never could get the right motion.  I have thrown the mars on the US Open pattern and it worked pretty good with me averaging 208 for 8 games.  I used a 4 x 5 1/2 with a pin down drilling to smooth it out.  Polished it was too squirly so I took it down to 500 and back up to 4000.  The ball read the mid lanes really well with good carry but you can't play big angles with it.


It's a very low flaring core. Few can play a large angle with it. Few would want to. It's designed as a control ball for lighter oils.

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nocarey

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2010, 09:44:30 PM »
I'd suggest any Brunswick Avalanche, they even have a Urethane one coming out soon.  Their Slingshots are great too.

Also consider 900 Global, they have the Link and Creature.

Finally, Storm has the Tropical Storm and the new Tropical Heat.




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Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2010, 09:36:34 AM »
quote:

Yes, it should bring it closer, but you're comparing 2 very different balls. So it's kind of difficult to predict. They might show different ball reaction on one lane surface + oil pattern, and similar ball reactions on a second lane surface + oil pattern. House oil patterns may show similarities, while Sport or PBA patterns will show truer differences. It can be a juggling act.

May I suggest you use a non-abrasive polish like Snake Oil or Lanemaster Factory Finish polish to insure you're not changing the underlying grit level, but only adding length?


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Check PM
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storm_fan

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2010, 01:50:22 PM »
Went bowling lastnight on the Cheetah and Viper, so took a chance having two new balls drilled.  I have always liked the hybrid covers because of the motion, so I went off some vidoes I seen on youtube of Norm Duke and Wes Malott.  On the Cheetah I went with a weaker Hyroad drilled pin up 4 1/2 x 5 1/2.  The box finish was a little too jumpy so hitting it with 4000 did the job.  The cover with the weaker layout gave it just enough midlane to be vary predictible, and strong but very controlable backend.  Didn't have to make a ball change for all 3 games, I'm very impressed.  On the Viper the Hyroad wasn't enough without trying to grab it, so my choice for this pattern was a weaker drilled Rogue Cell.  I went with a 5 x 3 3/4 pin up layout for a hook/set look, but again the box finish was hard to control.  Starting back at 500 I went to 2000 then 4000 and polished it, then hit it like I did the Hyroad with 4000 to knock off a little surface.  This ball was fantastic but had to watch the hand. The only bad thing with this ball was you had to make faster moves to stay on top of the transitions, but it worked good for the first two games before leaving 3 flat 10's in a row.  I'm sure something else may work better on the Viper, but the Rogue gave me a great look.  This way on the Cheetah I go to a Reign when making a ball change and Cell Pearl on the Viper for a great two ball combo.

I shot 679 on the Cheetah and 692 on the Viper.
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golfnutFL

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2010, 03:20:31 PM »
The Avalanche (pearl and slide), Creature pearl and the Link were all too strong for true dry conditions for me. The Slingshot is a good choice as is the Tropical Storm.

quote:
I'd suggest any Brunswick Avalanche, they even have a Urethane one coming out soon.  Their Slingshots are great too.

Also consider 900 Global, they have the Link and Creature.

Finally, Storm has the Tropical Storm and the new Tropical Heat.




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themagician

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2010, 03:50:23 PM »
quote:
The Avalanche (pearl and slide), Creature pearl and the Link were all too strong for true dry conditions for me. The Slingshot is a good choice as is the Tropical Storm.

quote:
I'd suggest any Brunswick Avalanche, they even have a Urethane one coming out soon.  Their Slingshots are great too.

Also consider 900 Global, they have the Link and Creature.

Finally, Storm has the Tropical Storm and the new Tropical Heat.







I understand your post and situation but it seems your getting sidetracked from the original post, his post has nothing to do with DRY lanes, its about shorter patterns as he mentioned the Viper and Cheetah which have a pretty good amount of oil.
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Yanker

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2010, 04:14:18 PM »
Like others have said, even though the newer patterns are "short", they still have a good volume of oil to them...you might try a stronger shell with a smooth drill pattern(pin 1 to 2 inches from your axis point), or even a 6 inch pin from axis, not much in between these two unless you use a weaker ball...weaker shells tend to overskid and then go sideways at the end of the pattern..I find that the stronger shells make my moves easier as the lanes transition.
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piquabowling

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2010, 04:30:55 PM »
If i was you I would drill up a natural. Urethane works very good on the shorter patterns. that would make the most since. I used a t-road solid and played up 1 thru 3 board with that and I got great reaction. My pin on that is pin below bridge and cg kicked out to the right.
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storm_fan

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2010, 04:35:40 PM »
Thats kinda what I thought too.  A stronger cover/core with a weaker layout will just let the ball roll without too much from the layout.  But I think there is a diminishing point to this, like trying to use a Mutant or Invasion on the Cheetah.  I tried a Fast before and it was too over/under. I bowl a lot better when I can have a weaker hand on shorter patters, so thats why I went with the layouts I did.  I can have a weaker had and know the ball is strong enough to get the job done.
quote:
Like others have said, even though the newer patterns are "short", they still have a good volume of oil to them...you might try a stronger shell with a smooth drill pattern(pin 1 to 2 inches from your axis point), or even a 6 inch pin from axis, not much in between these two unless you use a weaker ball...weaker shells tend to overskid and then go sideways at the end of the pattern..I find that the stronger shells make my moves easier as the lanes transition.
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KNR216

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2010, 05:22:08 PM »
I ran into this problem also urethane for me was to weak , my weakest resin was over / under.I had a columbia reaction ricochet pluged 4000 polish and drilled it 90 x 5.25 x 70. Played on the cheetah 13 to 4 board ball had hardly no flair made a big move at around 40 to 45 feet for me this was the ticket.I want to put this layout on a tropical heat should be close, good luck!
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n00dlejester

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Re: Short pattern balls
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2010, 09:48:58 PM »
Pin under drillings are your friend on the Cheetah (pin in palm works wonders for me).  And speed.  Just absolutely overpower the pattern.  This pattern is already crazy to begin with, so take out the lane as much as possible and pretend you're a throwbot.
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