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Author Topic: Storm Axiom?  (Read 3401 times)

skfboiler

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Storm Axiom?
« on: September 29, 2020, 07:11:14 AM »
I do not have a solid ball in my Arsenal.  Iím looking to add one for a game one ball during league.  My hall speed is around 14 mph. I have decent revs.  Do not have any numbers but I consider myself rev dominant.  I consider my self a tweener. To start, I stand on board 25 and my target is around the 15 board at the arrows.  Would the Axiom be a good ball in this situation? My house has a good amount of oil in the center of the lanes.  If not the Axiom, what Storm/RotorGrip solid cover ball should I consider? 
Current Arsenal: Storm Gravity Evolve, Storm Omega Crux, Storm Phaze 3, Storm Soniq, and Storm Punch Out

 

TWOHAND834

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 08:24:33 AM »
I do not have a solid ball in my Arsenal.  Iím looking to add one for a game one ball during league.  My hall speed is around 14 mph. I have decent revs.  Do not have any numbers but I consider myself rev dominant.  I consider my self a tweener. To start, I stand on board 25 and my target is around the 15 board at the arrows.  Would the Axiom be a good ball in this situation? My house has a good amount of oil in the center of the lanes.  If not the Axiom, what Storm/RotorGrip solid cover ball should I consider? 

With your ball speed, I think the Axiom would be too strong with the out of box finish.  Maybe if you adjusted the cover with some polish you could get the ball to retain a little energy.  In my opinion, the Phaze 2 would be a better choice.  However, the best option in my opinion is the All Road.  I believe the core numbers would match up better for you.  With you being rev dominate, the higher RG would help the ball retain energy for the backend while the NRG cover helps to read the pattern front to back.

Just to add something.....the All Road is not a true Solid.  It is a hybrid.  The Phaze 2 is a solid.  If you want a true solid, go with Phaze 2.  If you are okay with a hybrid, then go All Road.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 08:27:26 AM by TWOHAND834 »
Steven Vance
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skfboiler

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 09:37:53 AM »
As far as the Allroad, my Timeless with 3,000 grit is currently filling that roll. What about the Wildstreak or Rubicon on the RotorGrip side?  Or should I wait on a sanded solid in the Storm Thunder or Hot lines to come out.
Current Arsenal: Storm Gravity Evolve, Storm Omega Crux, Storm Phaze 3, Storm Soniq, and Storm Punch Out

CoorZero

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 12:33:46 PM »
14 mph. off your hand or downlane? That make a pretty big difference.

After that it depends on what shape you want. From early/smooth to late/sharp I would rank them Idol, Axiom, Phaze II, Rubicon, and Wild Streak. About the same for overall strength but I would flip the Phaze II and Rubicon. And even though the Wild Streak is last I wouldn't really consider it a true sharp reaction ball either despite the core numbers.

There's also the Aspect from 900 Global which is now poured in Utah with the rest of the Storm and Roto Grip stuff. That looks like a really good option for something to start out with.

SG17

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2020, 01:36:41 PM »
in the storm line; there are also the gravity evolve and Crux Prime.  both are asymmetrical.

skfboiler

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 01:52:44 PM »
As far the speed, Iím going by what the bowling center speed reference. I donít know if it is off the hand or downlane. For the first game in league I would think I need something smooth. 

Wouldnít the Gravity Evolve and Crux Prime be too strong for my ball speed?
Current Arsenal: Storm Gravity Evolve, Storm Omega Crux, Storm Phaze 3, Storm Soniq, and Storm Punch Out

tommygn

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2020, 03:00:17 PM »
If you want a ball that is for fresh oil with clean backends, the Prime or an Evolve is the ticket. If you are truly "rev dominate", then use a flare decreasing layout with a slow transition MB placement, adjust cover as needed. Something like a 2X6X1 or possibly a 5X3X4 as examples.

Ball speeds on the monitors are downlane after the ball has already slowed down. To get closer to actual ball speed, use your plastic spare ball (if you have one) that is highly polished and throw your strike release with it right up 15 at the pocket.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 03:25:51 PM by tommygn »
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skfboiler

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2020, 07:42:28 PM »
I always thought high end asyms like the Prime and the Gravity Evolve were too strong for bowlers like me on the house shot.  I do agree that a layout to control the flare and slow the reaction is needed. My pin down original Soniq is smooth at the break point.
Current Arsenal: Storm Gravity Evolve, Storm Omega Crux, Storm Phaze 3, Storm Soniq, and Storm Punch Out

CoorZero

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2020, 09:37:00 PM »
I always thought high end asyms like the Prime and the Gravity Evolve were too strong for bowlers like me on the house shot.  I do agree that a layout to control the flare and slow the reaction is needed. My pin down original Soniq is smooth at the break point.

Possibly. You describe yourself as a tweener though and it doesn't sound like you're playing outside in the dirt either. With the Prime and Evolve having SPEC it's a little different though. It's a strong cover but not one that over-reacts. The Crux is a little smoother between the two.

Keep in mind the Axiom has what Storm believes is the strongest cover they've ever made. That's not a weak core either.

If the too-strong factor feels too risky for you just get a Phaze II. A great ball with a proven record that should fit what you want it to do.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2020, 08:22:10 AM »
Here is my next question.  Why would someone spend high end money just to put a weak layout in it when he can spend $25 - $40 less than that to achieve what he is looking for?  Also....playing the middle of the lane with a 2 inch pin and not a lot of rev rate is going to corner pin himself to death.  He would shoot 180 every game, maybe 200 with a few fortunate hits. My rev rate is 540 and even I have a hard time kicking out the corners from 3rd arrow in simply due to lack of entry angle.   

After looking closer to the core numbers, the Wild Streak would be a great choice.  Thing to keep in mind is that the further inside you play, the more angle the ball needs to have on the backend to carry corner pins.  I really like the core numbers on the Wild Streak because the high RG and differential will help the ball retain the energy you will need to kick out the corner pins but the cover will be strong enough to read the oil pattern.  I have included a video from Luke Rosdahl so you can see what this ball is capable of when playing that area of the lane you mention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljU0mFZxWtA
Steven Vance
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tommygn

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2020, 08:45:39 AM »
Here is my next question.  Why would someone spend high end money just to put a weak layout in it when he can spend $25 - $40 less than that to achieve what he is looking for?  Also....playing the middle of the lane with a 2 inch pin and not a lot of rev rate is going to corner pin himself to death.  He would shoot 180 every game, maybe 200 with a few fortunate hits. My rev rate is 540 and even I have a hard time kicking out the corners from 3rd arrow in simply due to lack of entry angle.   

After looking closer to the core numbers, the Wild Streak would be a great choice.  Thing to keep in mind is that the further inside you play, the more angle the ball needs to have on the backend to carry corner pins.  I really like the core numbers on the Wild Streak because the high RG and differential will help the ball retain the energy you will need to kick out the corner pins but the cover will be strong enough to read the oil pattern.  I have included a video from Luke Rosdahl so you can see what this ball is capable of when playing that area of the lane you mention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljU0mFZxWtA

You need to use the correct cover to get the correct shape to strike consistently. That's what the Spec cover does. This idea that a bowler can't throw high end stuff because of their rev rate is simple untrue. Since we aren't allowed balance holes anymore, it's hard to get a symmetrical ball to stop hooking at the right time. You can achieve this with an asymmetrical ball drilled properly for the bowler. The cover is what dictates how a ball responds to friction when it sees it, and the Spec cover is designed to do exactly what the bowler was asking for, a ball for fresh head oil, with clean backends.

The poster said there's a lot of oil in the middle of the lane, and he needs a ball for game one. He said he has more revs than speed, so I don't know where you are getting this no rev rate from. The part of the lane he said he is playing, is right about where a "tweener" being a bit on the rev dominate side would play.

As far as the Wild Streak, really high RG/ higher diff balls with strong covers tend to be bad choices for "tweeners". Conditions have to be too perfect for them to go through the pins correctly. They are often too strong off the dry because of the cover, and wiggle and don't strike in the oil because of the core wanting to push down the lane. Those type of balls tend to be better for speed dominate players that have their angles in front of them, or high rev and fast speed players that have enough hand for the ball to react properly and they can open up the pattern.


The bottom line is, I wouldn't necessarily have disagreed with your first suggestions, IF we were still allowed balance holes. Then, you could create the shape downlane to get it to stop hooking and roll through the pins the correct way. We don't live in that environment anymore, though.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 09:02:46 AM by tommygn »
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TWOHAND834

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2020, 09:28:38 AM »
I never said he had no rev rate.  I only said he didnt have a lot, meaning 450 or higher.  I even used my 540 as an example.  If you watch the video, Luke clearly states that for a high RG ball that the ball revs up surprisingly well and even talked about how that came to be with a convo with Hank Boomershine.  He shows multiple shots playing in the area of lane the original poster speaks of.  Luke also shows what the ball does with surface changes.  When he had it at a true 2000, the ball was absolute money.  Last I checked from watching the video, Luke doesnt have a super high rev rate either, at least not in this video he doesnt.  The first few shots his rev rate couldnt be more than around 300.  But as he moved in, you can tell the rev rate went up a little bit.  In a video he did a few years ago, he stated his specs at 17 mph and 325 rev rate, which is pretty close to the poster.  Luke also mentions in this video that the Wild Streak has all but become the first ball out of the bag just about everywhere he goes. It is difficult to argue with video proof.

The Wild Streak does not roll like a typical high RG ball.  The RG is 2.60 but rolls more like a 2.50.  Cant remember if it was this video or another one.  But they described the Wild Streak as a "Hyroad in the front part of the lane with the Axiom look on the back end" and is a unique reaction to the Storm/Roto family.  I am not sure why this would be a bad choice for the poster.

Let me add one more thing.  Storm has already released a "layout adapter" for this whole weight hole nonsense.  Video proof shows that a simple shift in pin distance by around 1/2 to 3/4 inch will eliminate the whole not using a weight hole issue.  Storm has posted this video to youtube as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CICjeQNqiqg

EX:  45 x 5 x 45 will now become 45 x 4 3/8 x 45. 
       75 x 5.5 x 30 now becomes 75 x 4.75 x 30.

You can tweak the pin distance a little but you get the idea.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 09:35:29 AM by TWOHAND834 »
Steven Vance
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tommygn

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2020, 11:00:06 AM »
I never said he had no rev rate.  I only said he didnt have a lot, meaning 450 or higher.  I even used my 540 as an example.  If you watch the video, Luke clearly states that for a high RG ball that the ball revs up surprisingly well and even talked about how that came to be with a convo with Hank Boomershine.  He shows multiple shots playing in the area of lane the original poster speaks of.  Luke also shows what the ball does with surface changes.  When he had it at a true 2000, the ball was absolute money.  Last I checked from watching the video, Luke doesnt have a super high rev rate either, at least not in this video he doesnt.  The first few shots his rev rate couldnt be more than around 300.  But as he moved in, you can tell the rev rate went up a little bit.  In a video he did a few years ago, he stated his specs at 17 mph and 325 rev rate, which is pretty close to the poster.  Luke also mentions in this video that the Wild Streak has all but become the first ball out of the bag just about everywhere he goes. It is difficult to argue with video proof.

The Wild Streak does not roll like a typical high RG ball.  The RG is 2.60 but rolls more like a 2.50.  Cant remember if it was this video or another one.  But they described the Wild Streak as a "Hyroad in the front part of the lane with the Axiom look on the back end" and is a unique reaction to the Storm/Roto family.  I am not sure why this would be a bad choice for the poster.

Let me add one more thing.  Storm has already released a "layout adapter" for this whole weight hole nonsense.  Video proof shows that a simple shift in pin distance by around 1/2 to 3/4 inch will eliminate the whole not using a weight hole issue.  Storm has posted this video to youtube as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CICjeQNqiqg

EX:  45 x 5 x 45 will now become 45 x 4 3/8 x 45. 
       75 x 5.5 x 30 now becomes 75 x 4.75 x 30.

You can tweak the pin distance a little but you get the idea.

I've known Hank for over 20 years, form the old days of him working for and comping balls for Dynothane out at the High Rollers and Mini Eliminators years ago, and got to know him better from me being on Strom regional/ pro shop staff for over 17 years. Luke is entitled to his opinions, as I am entitled to mine, based on MY 20+ successful PBA career and running a pro shop for over 15 years. That doesn't make Luke the end all be all of info, nor does it make me the end all be all. I have PLENTY of experience of drilling and rolling balls to justify my posts, though.

I am well aware of the layout adapter. It creates more flare, but still doesn't make the ball do what you can make an asymmetrical ball do. If you could get the exact same results, then there would've been no need for a ball like the Rubicon. A Rubicon or Axiom pearl would be a far better suggestion than a Wild Streak based on what the OP said his stats are, and what his current arsenal is, and what he wants to use the ball for, and how it fits in with his existing arsenal.

The Wild Streaks I've seen go down the lane look best in the hands of the bowlers with the style that I mentioned. Bowlers who hook it with a lot of hand and speed, or bowlers who keep their angles more in front of them, and keep it in the oil toward the pocket because they are speed dominate. tweeners generally go around the heads more, and the Wild Streak looks best with straighter angles through the front of the lane, to the spot.

I'm not going to get in a pissing contest over qualifications and stats with you. My resume speaks for itself. I am MORE than qualified to make bowling ball and layout suggestions.


As for the original poster, I stand by what I said about trying an Evolve, or Prime, or even possibly a Rubicon. Rubicon covers some boards though and the cover is more responsive to friction at the end of the pattern than Spec cover is.
Talk to your local certified pro shop so that you can get your exact ball speed, axis of rotation, tilt, and rev rate, to make a qualified decision on what to drill. Seeing as you don't have any asymmetrical balls in the bag, and you want a ball for fresh, adding one with the correct layout would give you a well rounded arsenal, with less over lap.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 11:30:59 AM by tommygn »
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

tommygn

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2020, 11:11:29 AM »
Steven,

One last thing, just so you know, it doesn't matter where you put the pin on a symmetrical ball, the thumb becomes the PSA after drilling. Using a large deep balance hole, you can move that PSA of the drilled symmetrical ball away from the thumb hole.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 11:15:57 AM by tommygn »
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

Strider

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Re: Storm Axiom?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2020, 05:46:22 AM »
Steven,

One last thing, just so you know, it doesn't matter where you put the pin on a symmetrical ball, the thumb becomes the PSA after drilling. Using a large deep balance hole, you can move that PSA of the drilled symmetrical ball away from the thumb hole.

Did you mean it doesn't matter where you place the CG?  I know a lot of old school drilling techniques don't hold true anymore, but I believe pin placement still matters.