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Author Topic: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary  (Read 8465 times)

Luke Rosdahl

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Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« on: June 10, 2017, 12:24:50 PM »
First of all, PLEASE give me feedback on this.  I try to be objective in my reviews.  Yeah I'm a staffer, but it's not my job to lie about stuff, it's my job to know everything about a ball and tell you what it does.  I'm not much of a marketing fan, I believe in giving people information and helping them end up with a product they're happy with, not promoting something to move units.  If the product is good, you won't have to worry too much about marketing anyway, BUT I also wanted to get my opinion in there, which is hard to do in one video. 

I'm not a huge fan of my Timeless review video.  No, didn't like the ball, but I still feel it's really good for certain bowlers or certain games.  In my video it sounds like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth like, "well I don't like it, but I can't talk too bad about it, but I still have to make sure I give the facts, but I still think it will be good for this type of game . ."  I was just all over the place and I really don't like how that turned out.  So what I'm going to do now is make two videos for each release.  A straight up review, just giving you the facts and telling you what it does, but also an opinion video to tell you what I actually think about it.  Some people just want facts, some people want things you can't find on a tech sheet.

The commentary for this video feels a little heavy handed . . I didn't intend to come off like such a fanboy, but I really do like this ball, and there were a few points about what's going on in the industry right now that I felt like bringing up.  I don't foresee future opinion commentaries coming out like this, there will be much more about the ball and much less "extra" stuff.  Please tell me what you think though, is doing two videos overkill, do you like it, do I in fact sound like I'm pulling a "bambam" by talking it up so much, etc?  I don't want to lose my objective reputation, that's most important, I don't want to get the, "oh he's just another staffer, pay no attention to what he says."  Thanks in advance, I know I can count on this site's users to give it to me straight. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHlAzYi2PSw
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2017, 10:28:36 AM »
That's a manufacturer rule . . for every "official" video for a new release, it has to be compared to a recent release, preferably the previous release in the line or a complimentary reaction.  Now, that doesn't mean I can't add to the video of course . . the intent would be to show how much more or less it hooks and shapes in comparison to said control ball?  I have a brand new IQ Tour I never use . . that could work. 

You need a control ball that you compare all balls to instead of comparing it to a previous release.  Drill a ball and set it aside and only use it for the comparison in the video.
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lilpossum1

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2017, 10:43:44 AM »
Can you arrange things so that you thrown on two different patterns? Start off by throwing on a THS that most bowlers bowl on, then throw on a condition that the ball was made for? I can't remember if you did that on a weaker ball or not, but I remember LSR did that for balls like the arson low flare and maybe the Desert Ops. But also throw out a heavier condition for balls like the Sure Lock so we can see the full potential for that ball in comparison to your control ball

Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2017, 10:51:50 AM »
First of all I appreciate the response from you!!  I DO regret the conflict of interest, it's a catch 22 sometimes.  There are a lot of "staffers" that go through the motions to fulfill contract obligations and it's given the lot of us a bad reputation.  If a ball is great for me, like this one, it's hard to reign that back, and also hard to avoid, "well of course you like it, you're a staffer."  But given that I'm supposed to know this stuff better than anyone, if a ball doesn't work for me, that reflects EXTRA poorly since I should know what layouts or surfaces to go to.  It is what it is though.

I do like your point . . that making "good" shots is just as subjective as "missing."  The same variables apply to both, but I've got an idea how I could show misses and give context and information without just having a few random bad shots in there.  "So what happens when I miss?  This shot was thrown too hard, this shot was thrown too soft, this shot was right, left, overhit, didn't catch it, etc."  I get what you're saying . . I've seen videos that just show like 10 straight shots and give a shot quality rating without saying what was wrong or right with the shot and just leave it up to the viewer to figure it out.  However, I can see your point that there is value, quite a lot really if the misses are explained or given context . . because every ball does have different fudge room.  Sure Lock, throw it too fast, might be alright, throw it too slow, not a chance.  Now Hyroad Pearl, if I get a little slow or soft, probably will be ok, get too firm, nah, not a prayer. 

Your last paragraph I agree with, this is why I film every video on the same condition if at all possible.  I would PREFER to show each ball on the condition it was designed for because if a ball doesn't perform well on the condition it's supposed to, then there are problems, BUT having been in a pro shop for so long . . yeah, people come in and buy the ball they want and then go try to make it work on a house shot.

Thanks very much for the advice, much appreciated!! 

Hey man, I asked for feedback and this qualifies lol.  Yeah that's why I said I thought this one was a little over the top.  However, this is an OPINION video, this wasn't my REVIEW, so lol I can say whatever I want.  So first to clarify and be clear, this is specifically an opinion video or how I feel about the ball, not my actual review video.  My actual review video was up last week, BUT I don't want my opinion videos to compromise my reputation.  But as long as we're on the topic, here's my actual review video to critique:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqWYEKLr0-M

Now I do have a few video rules as well.  Number one is no layout pictures.  The layout numbers are all that matters, where my fingers go helps no one and quite possibly confuses some.  Number two is no bad shots.  It's completely unfair to judge a ball's capability on bad shots, I'm not going to show a shot where I miss 5 right and watch the ball miss the headpin and say it has poor recovery.  I'm reviewing the ball, not myself.  Number three, describe the ball based on the condition it was designed for, otherwise it would be like saying how poor a 7 iron is at putting.  "Well the Sure Lock sucks on dry lanes."  It's a Sure Lock . . so . . yeah.  I don't feel a need to go out of my way to say something negative about a ball unless there's something negative to be said, like I felt there was with the Timeless.  See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOmffx9lsUs  I hated that ball, it was plugged and redrilled for my wife before the release date even got here, but I had to give it a fair shake because I felt like it was going to be good for some people. 

HOWEVER, this all being said, if your opinion stands, then cool because perception is reality.  If it seems like I'm leaving something out or glossing over something or using some marketing angle to avoid saying something negative, then I need to address that because if you feel that way, likely there are others that feel the same.  Doesn't matter what my reasons are, if it seems a certain way, then my reasons sound like excuses to cover my donkey, and I don't want that.  At the same time, not going to break my video rules.  Storm wants me to put layout pictures on the videos because people like seeing them, but I'm not going to do that because it can literally only cause confusion.  Where my fingers are at bears zero relevance to anyone who doesn't have exactly the same PAP measurements.  Don't care what the ball does on bad shots because I've seen too many videos where they show misses but aren't playing the right part of the lane for how the ball reacts in the first place, so if you're playing the wrong part of the lane and showing what happens when you miss, it's going to be different from if you miss playing the correct part of the lane, misses are completely subjective and 100% on the bowler, also bears zero relevance to the ball.  Also see too many reviews that say "well it doesn't have enough traction in heavy oil and is too strong on friction so it's going to be best on medium heavy conditions."  Well on the tech sheet it says it's for medium heavy conditions, so I'm also trying not to insult the viewer's intelligence.  Is that fair enough, or what would you say in response?  There's a happy medium here somewhere, and I would honestly appreciate a response!

On edit, I am sorry this comes across as harsh. It is honest though... Having said that, the opinion stands....

Ok wait. This is like being in Neverland... Wow. Luke, you're not the fanboy, but everyone below you sure is. I just listened to the video for the 3rd time. 9 positive comments, ZERO NEGATIVE OR EVEN "HERE'S WHERE THE BALL DOESN'T FIT" COMMENTS (Every ball is better in a certain situation). Tell me again exactly how you're honestly rating the ball with that distribution? Zero shots missed. What did you do, shoot 47 in a row?
You may have an honest intent, but show me, in even ONE spot, where you said what the ball doesn't do, or show a miss, or when to put it away. Neat trick of feigning honesty and humility while pushing the product but HOLY MACKEREL BATMAN (in honor of Adam West, who died today), this really stands out as the emperor wears no clothes. Show me, just one place in the video, just one please.
Ok, flame on, go ahead.... But you know I'm right... :)

Hey Luke.  Representing one of the only video reviewers that shows shots that don't make the cut, I thought it worthwhile to give you another perspective.  I will start by saying I like your commentary. TamerBowling.com was pioneering this almost 10 years ago.  We write full independent reviews on my site so we've been covering the actual review, whether voiceover or written, for some time.  You have some conflict of interest but I think you have generally been fair.  The more that people like us provide commentary, the more informed the community is.

What I wanted to say is that I disagree with your assertion that showing misses has zero value.  I understand that showing a bowler missing "can be" more a commentary on the bowler but there are 2 factors in my mind.  One is when the bowler doesn't actually miss, meaning the shot was a "85%" or better shot.  In that case, it helps the viewer see how much forgiveness or miss room they have.  And we talk about that.  I mean every ball should strike if I throw it 100%.  The second is truly when the bowler misses target or other significant mistake.  Even in this case, there is value.  Why?  Because we all miss.  Nobody is a machine.  If I was Parker Bohn, than I have no need to see miss room :-).  We actually miss on purpose sometimes to see the balls reaction.  People are going to miss and I think it adds significant value to help people understand what happens to ball reaction when they miss.  I realize there are a lot of factors but doing this for 10 years, I can tell you that a whole lot is transferrable, a lot more than you are implying.  Showing only strikes on the same line you could say adds just as little value in your argument then, because the factors that you argue for showing only strikes are still there, e.g., the bowler, their PAP, the lane condition, the topography, temperature, rev rate, speed, you name it...  Then you could literally show one single throw and call it a day.

The other thing I would like to comment on is your remarks regarding balls and their reaction on certain conditions.  Most bowlers bowl only on their house shot almost exclusively.  If we are more or less simulating their condition, they should know if a Sure Lock rolls like a turd or is amenable for a bowler with similar style.  I mean if the Sure Lock is so condition specific, then you could argue why spend so much money on something you will never get to use...and that is a perfectly defendable logic for certain bowlers.  Just saying that, that information IS information.  I have been surprised many times in 10 years of reviews and 25 years of bowling with reactive equipment by the versatility of certain balls that have a specific intent from a manufacturer while at the same time disappointed by other ball reaction that should be more versatile and isn't.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen another bowler absolutely kill a house shot with a super strong ball while it was simply too strong to bother for me...

Hopefully you take this commentary as healthy debate.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2017, 10:57:06 AM »
I can try.  That's a little more difficult to arrange given my schedule, most of the time why my upload schedule is all over the place, I just have to get stuff done when I can and the time isn't always predictable.  BUT, yeah there's value to be had there too.  It's funny, the Sure Lock is tons and tons of fun to throw, but it just doesn't really work on anything because it hooks and backends so much.  It's too strong and chews the track up way too fast for regular house shots, and it's too angular for most sport patterns until you're forced inside, but then while the backend helps, it's most of the time too much ball overall because of lane transition.  Super condition specific. 

Can you arrange things so that you thrown on two different patterns? Start off by throwing on a THS that most bowlers bowl on, then throw on a condition that the ball was made for? I can't remember if you did that on a weaker ball or not, but I remember LSR did that for balls like the arson low flare and maybe the Desert Ops. But also throw out a heavier condition for balls like the Sure Lock so we can see the full potential for that ball in comparison to your control ball
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morpheus

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2017, 11:33:16 AM »
I personally don't think you should change a thing. You're obviously a knowledgeable and articulate with integrity regardless of brand affiliation so just do what you do!
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2handedrook12

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2017, 12:23:17 PM »
I personally don't think you should change a thing. You're obviously a knowledgeable and articulate with integrity regardless of brand affiliation so just do what you do!
I guess I'm considered a "fanboy" for this, but I agree here. I feel like you are providing more thsn enough information in your ball reviews. You can't please everyone and there are other people that appeal only to a specific audience. I guess if you impleneted the IQ Tour idea alongside the similar release to the new one wouldn't be bad. But I would personally hate seeing a review only to that ball would be useless for me. I watch different reviews for different reasons. Your reviews kinda give me insight on how the ball performs and what kinds of uses I'll see for it if at all. Tom Sorce is also very knowledgeable and his reviews kinda give me an idea of how a ball will compliment other pieces and how they best perform. After that, I might go to someone like Josh Taijiri for another demonstrstion of a ball. Maybe different layouts or more importantly ball roll and game variations.

The good shots and bad shots idea isn't bad, but to me, that depends more on the lane conditions and topography that you're facing.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2017, 01:02:44 PM »
Well there were some really good points and suggestions made . . but just like I tried here, I can make a couple different videos.  Adding a few shots with a control ball takes an extra 15 seconds of video, and adding a few misses with context adds another 20-30 seconds without compromising what I already do.  I can always add new little "shorts" here and there like if I drill my other CR with the different layout, make like a 45 second clip or add on, do some different stuff.  I think I can upgrade without hurting the overall result.  And hey, if it does, let me know.  I know I can't please everyone, but there were a couple legit good points and suggestions, so I've gotta give it a shot and see what happens at least.  Thanks though, I appreciate the vote of confidence!!

I personally don't think you should change a thing. You're obviously a knowledgeable and articulate with integrity regardless of brand affiliation so just do what you do!
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leftybowler70

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2017, 06:04:20 PM »
Why can't their be more 'Reviewers'  like you 2?  ???

mainzer

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2017, 08:24:32 PM »
Not even​ a fan of Storm/Roto, but I find your​ reviews​ to be magnificent. To be honest almost got me to drill some of the stuff up.

The only thing you might think about as a idea is maybe changing the Surface for example throw some shots with the ball OOB then some shots with a altered surface. Again just a idea, for myself I throw NO bowl OOB, To hard to replicate.

Great videos for the code red btw.
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TamerBowling

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2017, 08:26:00 PM »
Why can't their be more 'Reviewers'  like you 2?  ???
It takes a lot of time, effort, money, and integrity...  You could pay for BTM but even then, I feel like we have an advantage, besides being free, in that we have video and review.  I'm hoping I can keep it going as long as possible as long as people are watching and getting something out of it.  I'm also happy to see reviews like Luke's as it gives folks an additional look and perspective to help make an informed decision.
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leftybowler70

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2017, 09:08:10 PM »
Obviously, you two are rare breeds in this industry (although we all know this, but appreciate the time, effort, and integrity that you both bring with it.) 🙂

michael.willis9

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2017, 11:46:24 PM »
Man to be honest there's so many suggestions you'd either have 300 videos or 30 minute videos.

Some things I've seen that I like from different review videos....

1) multiple people throwing same ball
2) one person throwing different layouts
3) different lines by same bowler on same shot
4) same bowler and same ball but different finishes

As for the sport shot....  man if there was a way you could swing it where once a week they lay out a different sport pattern and you bring a handful of balls out and throw them on the pattern

RobK300

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2017, 01:17:17 AM »
Luke, from what I've seen on YouTube I would rate your videos as #1 (albeit I'm only seeking out Storm/Roto balls). Objective (as possible), consistent, informative. Always a go-to, I just wish there were more reviews from some of the slightly older balls that you can still get (Lock was one) but pretty soon you'll have the full compliment of available releases.

The two video approach sounds a good improvement to an already great series of ball motion videos. Please keep up the good work and Storm - please note the praise of many potential customers seeking Luke's videos. Every ball being "must have" isn't credible and gets ignored, but these videos work.

Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2017, 06:45:02 AM »
I'd second this . . just the equipment to even start doing this isn't cheap if you want to do a decent job, then there's the equipment unless you're getting comped balls,
 which usually doesn't happen unless you're a big channel or a site like Bowler's Mart.
  Like I said, if I wasn't on staff, zero chance I could do it, and even then it still has its challenges. 

Why can't their be more 'Reviewers'  like you 2?  ???
It takes a lot of time, effort, money, and integrity...  You could pay for BTM but even then, I feel like we have an advantage, besides being free, in that we have video and review.  I'm hoping I can keep it going as long as possible as long as people are watching and getting something out of it.  I'm also happy to see reviews like Luke's as it gives folks an additional look and perspective to help make an informed decision.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Storm Code Red: Opinion Commentary
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2017, 10:08:44 AM »
Tamer, Average Joe, and Luke have the best reviews for all different reasons. When Britton was doing them (videoballreviews), he always had to say something nice and not really say what he thought because he was afraid of getting cut off. That sucks.