BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Storm => Topic started by: Jamesfarm on February 25, 2016, 06:23:45 AM
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I have the Phaze and was wondering if anyone's was not tacky like the advertising said. The surface on mine is very slick, no way anyone is palming this one!
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Here's a link to a prior Phaze thread that has been locked but it will answer your question
http://www.ballreviews.com/storm/storm-phaze-issues-t310558.0.html
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I have seen the advertising and never really paid a lot of attention to it. I am not going to be using it without fingers or thumb anyway. It is new and I was going to drill it for control to compliment my IQ 30. I drilled my IQ 30 at 4 x 5 x 1 and get a great amount of skid/flip. Exactly what I wanted. On houses with very snappy back ends, this did not work so well. I got the Phaze and drilled it 5 x 4 x 3 for control. It gets through the front very well, doesn't over react when it hits the dry, yet has great continuations through the pins! It doesn't deflect a lot, like I thought it would. It is a great ball for me with the drill I put on it. For me, it is my bench mark ball. I have the Lock for a hook monster, and pitch black for dry lanes, and now I have a good mid ball for me. Take it for what you will. I still believe that every ball is the best ball for someone and the worst ball for someone else.
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My Phaze is just as tacky as they advertise. If my hand was just a little bigger I have no doubt that I could palm it. A bigger guy in one of my leagues did palm it after he saw that I was throwing it. It has become my benchmark ball as well. I think it is a great THS ball and will work great on medium conditions. No complaints at all from me on it.
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I can't get past how hideously ugly it is. (Yes, I'm superficial)
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I threw one today for the first time on a fresh 39ft House Shot with a ton of volume from 10-10. This would be an awesome ball if it was at the midprice point. No way I'd pay retail for it. In my bag I have Optimus Solid, Marvel Pearl (2), Rocket, Victory Road Pearl, Devour (Pin Axis w/Polish), and a Too Hot. The Phaze was a 2-3 move right in comparison to the Victory road, about 5-6 right off the Rocket, but the continuation just wasn't there. If I got the ball bounced to the dry early and it faced up before the tracers then the carry was awesome, but this ball HATES oil. I can see this as a good short pattern ball or a good option on HPLs or old surfaces with a lot of built in friction. This will not be a "first ball" reaction for a lot of people.
I think a lot of rev dominant/high rev guys are going to like it in the track area for controlling the pocket or guys that like a rounder motion. It's realistically about as strong as a Ride Hybrid at the end of the day.
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I have both the Phaze and the Ride and they aren't even in the same ballpark as far as strength/movement. I've used the Phaze at 4 different houses on THS and a sport shot for a tournament and it has yet to disappoint. My Ride is a great dry lanes ball, but the Phaze is stronger in every aspect. I'm curious if maybe there are some bad batches of this ball? I'm hearing a lot about how it is a dud and a lot about how it is amazing. I know every ball acts differently for each individual bowler, but I've never seen such a love/hate relationship for a ball like this. I'm thinking a lot has to do with how Storm hyped this ball up like no other. I'm enjoying mine for now and hope the success continues.
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I really want one to prove the naysayers..even a used one. But the funny thing is...for a ball everyone is struggling with..they want mint $...like I'm supposed to bail them out for making a bad purchase. One guy I bowl with is trying to unload his for 190 dollars lol..
My response was youre trying to sell to the wrong ball junkie. It's gotta be for a song!
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There are a couple of manufacturers doing the same thing. The costs to provide the product to the customers has probably gone up, as expected. Combine this with the typical profit margin and you get higher prices. Mid-range balls will soon cost as much as high-end balls. It is a fact of life. Imagine the outrage if companies raised the price of every ball $10 as of January 01.
New year, new prices; you get this with lots of markets.
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There are a couple of manufacturers doing the same thing. The costs to provide the product to the customers has probably gone up, as expected. Combine this with the typical profit margin and you get higher prices. Mid-range balls will soon cost as much as high-end balls. It is a fact of life. Imagine the outrage if companies raised the price of every ball $10 as of January 01.
New year, new prices; you get this with lots of markets.
Business 101 doesn't apply to bowlers. We want it cheap or free.
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There are a couple of manufacturers doing the same thing. The costs to provide the product to the customers has probably gone up, as expected. Combine this with the typical profit margin and you get higher prices. Mid-range balls will soon cost as much as high-end balls. It is a fact of life. Imagine the outrage if companies raised the price of every ball $10 as of January 01.
New year, new prices; you get this with lots of markets.
Business 101 doesn't apply to bowlers. We want it cheap or free.
And to be able to complain about it while getting it cheap/free
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Any organizations product is worth what consumers are willing to pay for it. Consumers vote with their wallet whether it's a bowling ball or the any other product/service so stop saying bowlers are cheap, everyone wants value for their investment. If the product/service isn't good, the price will be reduced and organizations that no longer provide value in the eyes of the consumer go out of business.
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I hear that Storm will move production to Canada to cut production costs.[/sarcasm]
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I hear that Storm will move production to Canada to cut production costs.[/sarcasm]
Bad sarcasm. Everything is more expensive in Canada
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Wouldn't that make it good sarcasm?
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Any organizations product is worth what consumers are willing to pay for it. Consumers vote with their wallet whether it's a bowling ball or the any other product/service so stop saying bowlers are cheap, everyone wants value for their investment. If the product/service isn't good, the price will be reduced and organizations that no longer provide value in the eyes of the consumer go out of business.
Of course, but the ink hasn't even dried on the Phaze price tags. What you detail will take time. We will have to see if this one release will mean Storm is finished.
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Any organizations product is worth what consumers are willing to pay for it. Consumers vote with their wallet whether it's a bowling ball or the any other product/service so stop saying bowlers are cheap, everyone wants value for their investment. If the product/service isn't good, the price will be reduced and organizations that no longer provide value in the eyes of the consumer go out of business.
Of course, but the ink hasn't even dried on the Phaze price tags. What you detail will take time. We will have to see if this one release will mean Storm is finished.
The Optimus and Optimus Solid were not hits and Storm is still in business. So I don't think Storm is going anywhere if the Phaze doesn't meet expectations for some.
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You're right. And sometimes I think people use the word "hype" and try to make it mean "big hook". Instead, we should be using the term "advertising". The Phaze was advertised as something different than what people are expecting.
If the IQ Tour were perceived as having the same hype as the Phaze, people would be pissed by the fact it doesn't hook enough or handle enough oil. But in reality, the ball fits it advertising perfectly.
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You're right. And sometimes I think people use the word "hype" and try to make it mean "big hook". Instead, we should be using the term "advertising". The Phaze was advertised as something different than what people are expecting.
If the IQ Tour were perceived as having the same hype as the Phaze, people would be pissed by the fact it doesn't hook enough or handle enough oil. But in reality, the ball fits it advertising perfectly.
I couldn't agree more. This ball wasn't advertised as the biggest hooking ball ever. It's for medium conditions and that's what most THS conditions are. I think it should be a THS killer and I'm enjoying it a lot.
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My father in law is having trouble with his. When his hits the pocket though, it hits like a truck! It's so loud and hard. Pins just fly. But he doesn't have any miss room with it. It looks like he's bowling on a sport shot. It's super controllable, but he's having trouble figuring it out. He said it's the longest he's had to try and figure a ball out.
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I for one want to try the Phaze, but waiting to get one used since everyone is on the fence about it. 16lb anyone?
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Could someone show me all of this hype in regards to hook? I've only seen where to cover is tacky. But that doesn't equate to hook and Storm does not claim that it does. Storm claims that the ball produces "happy strikes." ;D
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After much fighting with this ball, I have finally figured out how to get it tacky, for the people in the same situation that mine was in. I finally thought to kinda treat it like a brunswick ball since that the reaction some people are claiming it to have. I hit the ball on my spinner with a 500 pad, then took a dirty polish towel, and just got it wet, and polished. Ball now has the tackiness that many of the others had. So if your dealing with the slick feel try this. I hope it helps some people out there.
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I drilled my phase yesterday. It was tacky out of the box. The thing I did notice it is not a highly shined ball. Throwing down the lanes it is very rolly(if there is such a word) and a continuous curve. What's impresses me the most is the fact it revs through the whole lane. A different motion from storm and a motion I like.
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Mine was super shiny out of the box..... Seems consistency is an issue....
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After much fighting with this ball, I have finally figured out how to get it tacky, for the people in the same situation that mine was in. I finally thought to kinda treat it like a brunswick ball since that the reaction some people are claiming it to have. I hit the ball on my spinner with a 500 pad, then took a dirty polish towel, and just got it wet, and polished. Ball now has the tackiness that many of the others had. So if your dealing with the slick feel try this. I hope it helps some people out there.
The reaction isn't typical Storm but its not as bad as a Brunswick reaction. Lets not get carried away, lol.
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Track clean n tacky works great if still made under powerhouse
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You would figure tacky = friction. I talked to a staffer that suggested you drill this with a 1/2" stronger pin than you would normally and adding a low hole to get the ball to pop a little more off of the spot. Makes sense. He also said this ball is designed to be able to be used an entire block start to finish. Sounds legit if you can line up with this on the fresh.
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You would figure tacky = friction. I talked to a staffer that suggested you drill this with a 1/2" stronger pin than you would normally and adding a low hole to get the ball to pop a little more off of the spot. Makes sense. He also said this ball is designed to be able to be used an entire block start to finish. Sounds legit if you can line up with this on the fresh.
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I guess nobody can show me where Storm claims that this ball is a hook monster? All I've found is tacky surface and a new motion, per Storms website.
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Guessing the new ball motion isn't what many were expecting at the high performance price point.
Anything high performance priced that isn't a "hook monster" usually gets some disappointment.
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Guessing the new ball motion isn't what many were expecting at the high performance price point.
Anything high performance priced that isn't a "hook monster" usually gets some disappointment.
Motiv has jumped on their prices for similar performance to the previous release. Is that a problem? Storm was talked about for reusing covers and cores year after year and charging the same price. So they release new core and covers and charge more Dr similar performance. Bowlers have to pick their poison when they complain about retreads.
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They gotta make their $ on a new core design. They don't come cheap..
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They gotta make their $ on a new core design. They don't come cheap..
my point exactly. People love the Centripetal core, but want new core and covers. That "new" comes with a price.
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I still don't understand how prices are still as low as they are. Just think, the Brunswick qauntums when they came out. Technology has only gotten better but the pricing hasn't matched. They should be a lot more IMHO.
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They gotta make their $ on a new core design. They don't come cheap..
my point exactly. People love the Centripetal core, but want new core and covers. That "new" comes with a price.
Yup, broken record billy, figs when he was at track told me in person, it cost EBI 70k just to produce and market a new core...
They gotta sell over 500 of em to shops before the core costs are paid for...crazy..
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I still don't understand how prices are still as low as they are. Just think, the Brunswick qauntums when they came out. Technology has only gotten better but the pricing hasn't matched. They should be a lot more IMHO.
Those forest green quantums that came out in 1994 were an excellent ball...I loved them lol. A pro shop couldn't just buy 1 quantum at a time they had to buy a case of 4 balls.
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You would figure tacky = friction. I talked to a staffer that suggested you drill this with a 1/2" stronger pin than you would normally and adding a low hole to get the ball to pop a little more off of the spot. Makes sense. He also said this ball is designed to be able to be used an entire block start to finish. Sounds legit if you can line up with this on the fresh.
I bowled a tournament today with a Storm staffer and someone had a Phaze on the rack and he called the Phaze the 170,270,170 ball. Yep, sounds like an Optimus to me.
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They gotta make their $ on a new core design. They don't come cheap..
my point exactly. People love the Centripetal core, but want new core and covers. That "new" comes with a price.
Yup, broken record billy, figs when he was at track told me in person, it cost EBI 70k just to produce and market a new core...
They gotta sell over 500 of em to shops before the core costs are paid for...crazy..
your math is off by a few. But I get your point. I have it around 800-1000 balls to the shop to cover core R&D if your 70k is right.
Northface, that sounds like a 170, 210, 170 bowler to me...
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They gotta make their $ on a new core design. They don't come cheap..
my point exactly. People love the Centripetal core, but want new core and covers. That "new" comes with a price.
Yup, broken record billy, figs when he was at track told me in person, it cost EBI 70k just to produce and market a new core...
They gotta sell over 500 of em to shops before the core costs are paid for...crazy..
your math is off by a few. But I get your point. I have it around 800-1000 balls to the shop to cover core R&D if your 70k is right.
Northface, that sounds like a 170, 210, 170 bowler to me...
70 didn't cover all costs, just the core cost. I was assuming shops maybe get the phaze for $130 , 70/$130=538
He told me that right when track started the numbering system. It was also why they do the density changes instead of an all new core shape. He passed around the Lego brick core and showed us all how one was different from the next. (930T vs. 920A...if my memory is clear)
However I don't know proshop costs...so tkk you're probably dead on at 800-1000 just to cover R&D..
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They gotta make their $ on a new core design. They don't come cheap..
my point exactly. People love the Centripetal core, but want new core and covers. That "new" comes with a price.
Yup, broken record billy, figs when he was at track told me in person, it cost EBI 70k just to produce and market a new core...
They gotta sell over 500 of em to shops before the core costs are paid for...crazy..
your math is off by a few. But I get your point. I have it around 800-1000 balls to the shop to cover core R&D if your 70k is right.
Northface, that sounds like a 170, 210, 170 bowler to me...
70 didn't cover all costs, just the core cost. I was assuming shops maybe get the phaze for $130 , 70/$130=538
He told me that right when track started the numbering system. It was also why they do the density changes instead of an all new core shape. He passed around the Lego brick core and showed us all how one was different from the next. (930T vs. 920A...if my memory is clear)
However I don't know proshop costs...so tkk you're probably dead on at 800-1000 just to cover R&D..
your number for what shops get balls for would be from a distributor. So the company selling to the distributor would be for less than what the shops buy for. So you have to assume the distributor has a markup, which they do.
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They gotta make their $ on a new core design. They don't come cheap..
my point exactly. People love the Centripetal core, but want new core and covers. That "new" comes with a price.
Yup, broken record billy, figs when he was at track told me in person, it cost EBI 70k just to produce and market a new core...
They gotta sell over 500 of em to shops before the core costs are paid for...crazy..
your math is off by a few. But I get your point. I have it around 800-1000 balls to the shop to cover core R&D if your 70k is right.
Northface, that sounds like a 170, 210, 170 bowler to me...
Ordinarily, id agree, but he's pretty good. Wins a lot of stuff in the Midwest, some regional titles as well, he's not a clown.
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You would figure tacky = friction. I talked to a staffer that suggested you drill this with a 1/2" stronger pin than you would normally and adding a low hole to get the ball to pop a little more off of the spot. Makes sense. He also said this ball is designed to be able to be used an entire block start to finish. Sounds legit if you can line up with this on the fresh.
I bowled a tournament today with a Storm staffer and someone had a Phaze on the rack and he called the Phaze the 170,270,170 ball. Yep, sounds like an Optimus to me.
Optimus was a dog turd for me.
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Avg. 224,
Just wanted to say, I bought the ball the day it came out, on buddiesproshop.com and had it drilled and delivered. I mirrored my drilling off Joshua Tajiri's drilling from a youtube video as we have similar styles and similar PAP's. I use a lot of hand but am trying to use weaker drillings to play a little straighter than I used to play.
First week the ball was rolling nice, shot a decent 683 with it and it moved just like i would like in my league.
Last Friday however i noticed some of the issues others stated they have with the ball, in that it sometimes just doesn't move. I was the only person on the pair of lanes struggling to get my ball to turn, mid-way through the FIRST game. I adjusted moving right and slowed the speed down a tad, but the ball still wouldn't turn. I ended up basically using this ball as pretty much a straight ball as i had to literally throw it direct at the pocket. It seems it doesn't like carry down or is finicky with oil. I did notice if I got it out towards the gutter it would hook back hard but then it would overlook and go brooklyn.
Still shot a 663 but was really disappointed in the ball. I figured the first week i just needed to learn the ball a bit, I felt in practice on the second week I had found my area perfectly and started the first game with 4 strikes and 9-spare, but then literally the ball stopped turning right after that.
Hoping last week was an anomaly but after reading some comments throughout the threads i think i shouldn't have bought this ball.
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So for 2 weeks you bowled to your average. Maybe your expectations are too high.
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I didnt know a 683 and 663 were such horrible series.
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Idk about all of you but I hope mine doesn't hook! I'd love to the play the track, anytime I can I kill it! 8)
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I guess we live in an age that averaging 224 is not good enough. I get that we spend money on new equipment but once someone starts averaging 210 plus, improvement is seen in small increments, not large steps. If all I had to do to bowl over average when I averaged 230 was buy a new ball, I would have had a new ball every set. By the time I jump in brackets and the side action, the new ball would have been paid for.
Just doesn't work like that.
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Not saying I was unhappy with the series I threw in the last week, what i was unhappy with was the touchiness of the ball at least using the factory finish. I'm going to try taking the polish off and move the ball to a different grit level. Just felt like the ball died on me in the middle of the first game, especially when i was hitting pocket in practice and the first game up to like the 5th frame. After that the ball turned into a spare ball almost, and because the ball was new i was too stubborn to switch balls that night.
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Sometimes covers need broke in and the surface of the ball from the factory is not what matches up for you or me. I remember Phil C's Soaker covers on Dynothane stuff from a decade ago. Phil would tell you that the ball needed a few games to get broke in, like a dozen or more.
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I have an Unreal amd it took me 6+ games to break in. I hated it when i first got it then go 299/760 and then go 300/750. Now its as consistent as can be but even still, if im not consitent in my approach and release, its not going to score.
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I think I watched every phaze video...
All things aside...take all factors out.
Shorter paps and CGS further towards their pap look to appear to skid hook roll really well.
Phazes with holes seem to look good too, vs. No hole.
The further the pin is away it, seems to just skid and miss the breakpoint.
I read somewhere on here that reps said to move the pin towards the pap an inch or so, and add a hole.
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That being said...
I think it's cool, every pin up ball reacts the same anymore...
It's might be very advantageous to have a ball that can really skid, or one that can really roll...maybe the whole intent is to make drilling more important? Or it accidentally is being the case
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I think Tony Ruocco's rolled rather well and his was 6 inches from his PAP if I read that correctly.
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That video like all of the others from Bowlingball.com are on a mega wall. So it's hard to have a ball not look good. Though there have been some that have.
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just buy a fight. shot 757 with it out of box. on old wood lanes
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This is the layout I'm going with...
https://youtu.be/7fROPIG_j5U
By far best rolling one on YouTube...ofcourse in my opinion 8)
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This is the layout I'm going with...
https://youtu.be/7fROPIG_j5U
By far best rolling one on YouTube...ofcourse in my opinion 8)
Stacked Leverage? People still use that? Gross.
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This is the layout I'm going with...
https://youtu.be/7fROPIG_j5U
By far best rolling one on YouTube...ofcourse in my opinion 8)
Stacked Leverage? People still use that? Gross.
I know u hate that but I love it. I got a lot of honor scores with similar layouts..
Also...95% if the phazes are pin up, cg slightly kicked...and everyone says the ball blows...
Klempkens was pin down under the bridge and his rolls well, apparently... Could do that too.
But dang this video is good, skid hook roll...doesn't ever really miss the spot. Every other video looks terrible. Even bowlerdeals is 2 arrows right ha-ha..
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Well. I averaged 232 last summer with the Optimus. To me this ball is more continuous than angular and works best for straighter players. It's not super strong or very angular but is great for playing the track area. I would say the Phaze is similar but stronger and more rolly. The Phaze allows me to play straighter in heavy oil. I have mine drilled pin down with a little surface. It rolls early and keeps moving through the pins. Both these balls work great when the condition warrants using them. I think most bowlers like a reaction similar to the Sky Rocket which is very angular. To me the Sky Rocket is too over / under for my liking. If I miss a little into the dry the ball takes off.
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Yeah I'd ignore anything you see from that crew, Ruocco thumbs the piss out of everything so he could get a 6 inch pin White Dot to hook, that kind of sometimes two handed kid either flags it out to the 3 board or never gets it right of 15, and everything Curlie throws looks the same.
IF you want to make the Phaze look "pretty" on a house shot, you need to go stronger across the board. It's a very strong ball to begin with, it's just not a strong ball on the backend. Trying to force backend out of the ball is not a good idea, because it's just not that kind of ball, HOWEVER, drop 10-15 degrees off both your initial and final angles, and drop about half an inch off the pin, and add a P3 hole. So if a favorite layout for you is 65x5x40, go 50x4.5x30.
In my opinion however, you buy different balls to do different things, yet somehow everyone wants every ball they buy to work on their league shot. My Phaze got used for my video and is sitting on a rack in the back waiting for Greater Ozarks, Nationals, and my sport league this summer because it is going to be an absolute beast on a sport pattern. Hook but not flip? Sign me up. 500 or 1k grit straight up 3/4/5 at Nationals? I can hardly wait. League shot though? Nah, Loco Solid and Hectic have that covered. The Phaze is a house shot killer for guys with a lot of hand or guys with virtually no hand. Guys with hand can rip on it without it turning sideways on the back, and the guys without hand can play a lot closer to the friction on the outside without the over/under of more angular balls. Tweeners? Absolute nightmare. Tweeners and crankers on sport patterns? Best ball ever. Low rev rate? Buy an Alpha.
That video like all of the others from Bowlingball.com are on a mega wall. So it's hard to have a ball not look good. Though there have been some that have.
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Hank Boomershine told me to just lightly break the shell with 3000 abralon by hand. Then use a ball cleaner. Wow! It totally woke the ball up.
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Mine was tacky out of box, I usually change surface on a new ball. I decided to roll it OOB and WOW, this ball is a really good piece. I have really enjoyed this ball so far.
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The one I threw originally had a p4? weight hole, high VAL angle (pin down), and about 5.5 from my PAP seemed to be a little strange. After it was redrilled to have a lower VAL angle and keeping the weight hole (putting the hole around the p3 position) made it roll a lot better! Being someone that was a big fan of particle balls in the past (HPD, Saw Blade, Second Dimension, Buzzsaw LRG), 2000 gives me that kind of motion except a little stronger due to modern technology. I haven't thrown it polished yet with this layout change, but I will once I have my own. Whatever issue cover wise seems to have been cleared up after the first few batches.
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Storms matchmaker suggested the Phaze as my heavy oil ball...sorta surprised me
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Storms matchmaker suggested the Phaze as my heavy oil ball...sorta surprised me
Depending on specs, I can definitely see that as an option especially with surface. If the shot allows you to play up the gutter or in the track area, it will probably shape really well (again especially with surface and the proper layout).