BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Storm => Topic started by: Wooten on December 09, 2013, 03:52:56 PM
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Hello all-
I've struggled a bit lately and I think it's more of an ignorance of condition and not matching up than problems with my ability. Lately I feel like my release and timing are as good as they have been in awhile, but I struggle to adjust properly on one of my house shots. It's best described as a severe wet/dry. I didn't listen to some advice about using a ball with some surface because in my mind surface has always meant more hook, or at least early hook/burnup in this kind of shot.
I tried a Totally Defiant, IQ Tour Pearl with mixed results. I'd line up fine for a bit, but then on what I thought were good shots, the ball would hook so sharply and so late that what seemed like a good shot was a big 4, greek church....you get the idea.
I don't have the speed I used to and I have more trouble on synthetics than I do wood fwiw. Since this house changed from wood, my average has dropped around 15 pins - consistent 215-220 for a decade, now 200-205. I'm a tweener, stroker who typically is comfortable standing 2-4 board left of center and playing 8-14 as conditions warrant, at around 14-15mph, 350 rev rate. My best success on this particular shot was after finally listening so some advice and hitting an old DV8 Hell Raiser Revenge with a green scotch-brite. Ball is calm and much easier to manage, even if I miss in either direction. As the lanes transition though and I move my feet left and target inside, it's too soft to play deep with. It's either corner pins or splits of the 2-8-10 variety. If I try to leave my feet in the same place but move my target in and go straighter, the ball reacts earlier as you might expect. Trying the pearl balls at this point is sort of a disaster.
I do have an IQ tour solid, but it's too strong for the dry and too weak for the inside on this pattern. It works better than most of the balls I have, but it still is way too over/under to manage easily. I have a Sync as well, but it's drilled for Reno and just doesn't work on a house shot at all.
This seems like a pure matchup issue, as well as a learning issue - and I think I'm finally learning to stop thinking that a lot of surface is a bad thing on this shot. Help me put a ball in my hands that someone like me can get down the lane but turn with enough backend to carry. IQ Tour Fusion? Marvel S? Zero Gravity? (would prefer something out now :)
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It is hard to make a correct recommendation without seeing you bowl, but some general points. Severe Wet/Dry is usually battled with control layouts on solid or hybrids. The reason being that a Pearl will be exactly what you are seeing. I like a symmetrical on this condition due to the fact the core wants to roll and not jump. If you are a Storm person which it seems like you are from your equipment and what you are suggesting...I would highly recommend the Reign of Power.
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Disturbed in the Roto Line
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What do you mean drilled for Reno. To me that should mean something that is smooth which should work well in wet/dry
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Depending on how you bowl, I'd say something with a strong coverstock and/or strong layout would help blend that over/under. OR, if you're willing to try and be daring - drill kill a ball to play right in the dirt.
For what this is worth, I've taken my Totally Defiant and sanded it all the way up to 4k (500, 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k) and I have a beautiful look on the wet/dry conditions in one of my leagues.
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When all else fails I pipe my wrecker up the track area.
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Drill a Radical Reax 2 with a control layout. I'm 18 mph, 375 rpm, low tilt, med rotation and mine with a control drill is the BEST thing I've owned for wet/dry ever!
Otherwise I'd go with a pin down hybrid with surface if your tilt is above 10*.
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Sorry I didn't notice the STORM preference.
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My recommendation would be a Lights Out with surface at abt 2000 and laid out with the pin 1.5-2" from your pap and the weight hole 2" down the VAL....this combo with allow the ball to slow down so it doesn't shoot thru the breakpoint if you miss in and not jerk off the dry as well as close down your angles
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My recommendation would be a Lights Out with surface at abt 2000 and laid out with the pin 1.5-2" from your pap and the weight hole 2" down the VAL....this combo with allow the ball to slow down so it doesn't shoot thru the breakpoint if you miss in and not jerk off the dry as well as close down your angles
Love this. This is a layout that is underutilized in leagues.
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A good friend and bowler I've worked with for awhile, Robby Porter just won a regional in Reno on a very shorter pattern utilizing a Freeze and Outburst laid out this way...never a ball tool to have in the bag
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Ric--What does the x hole 2" down on the VAL do to the ball with a short pin?
A good friend and bowler I've worked with for awhile, Robby Porter just won a regional in Reno on a very shorter pattern utilizing a Freeze and Outburst laid out this way...never a ball tool to have in the bag
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Increases the flare as the ball starts to slow which helps it control the 35-45' part of the lane...the increase in flare helps it traction better in oil and slow down or not over react in the dry or friction...thus blending it out. No weight hole the flare stays tight which can enhance over/under
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Very good. I thought that but wanted to know for sure from your experience. Great stuff and a layout I have tried on a Motiv Ascent Pearl 2.50" pin to PAP and at P2000 is very controllable.
Increases the flare as the ball starts to slow which helps it control the 35-45' part of the lane...the increase in flare helps it traction better in oil and slow down or not over react in the dry or friction...thus blending it out. No weight hole the flare stays tight which can enhance over/under
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I remember years back Columbia used to recommend their strongest balls for severe wet dry. At the time they recommended that I consider the Reaction Roll. Their strongest core and a particle ball. I have this ball and it is one of my strongest anytime I pick it up.
They also recommended going 5 boards deep into the dry instead of projecting just to the oil line itself.
I don't know about those ideas I am just passing them on. The Reaction Roll for me was often too much for this purpose but I do understand the concept. The particles made the ball act like a much duller ball Thus bleeding off energy earlier.
Now I never used that strong a ball for wet/dry but did use the 5 board projection method with a Rotogrip Sonic X solid last year and have some big games. I also have used this philosophy of 5 boards into the dry years ago with a Columbia Panic and a flatter hand and had a decent season!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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My recommendation would be a Lights Out with surface at abt 2000 and laid out with the pin 1.5-2" from your pap and the weight hole 2" down the VAL....this combo with allow the ball to slow down so it doesn't shoot thru the breakpoint if you miss in and not jerk off the dry as well as close down your angles
What kind of pin out do you think for this layout? Normal 2 to 3? or shorter? What about the wrecker?
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Wrecker might be too strong off the spot and open up your angles...2-3" pin should be fine try to keep the top weight under 3oz maybe closer to 2.5oz so you won't require a crater right off the back.
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Just Rico regarding the weight hole?
You frequently mention a wieihthole 2 inches down the VAL. The ball I have drilled 1 3/4 pin to PAP has 0 finger Thumb at this time with no weighthole(cg back towards grip center. I realize I can add thumb weight pretty easily if need be to create this weighthole.
However the question is, can a weighthole 2 inches past the VAL have the same effect in line with the PAP have the same effect? Or phrased another way what are the differences between the two weightholes when applied to this drilling?
Thanks,
Luckylefty
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The differences will be minimal...closer to the 'true' VAL the earlier the ball will respond...it's more the size and depth of the bit that effects more time than not
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JustRico,
Thank you. To refresh my memory. The bigger the bit the greater the flare increase??
REgards,
Luckylefty
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The wider potential and generally quicker response
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I think I am going to do this on a Grip It. I love this drilling with a light bulb shaped weightblock. Hence why the Lights Out would work.
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JustRico,
Thanks for your answers. I get the quicker response for the larger weighthole. To clarify on the portion of your answer on wider potential. I believe that means greater spacing between flare lines with the wider hole vs the narrower deeper hole?
Is that correct?
Thank You.
Luckylefty
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Lucky,
Not trying to step into the big Rico's shoes, but yes. The wider track flares give it a little more teeth, as opposed to the smaller spacing between the flares.
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My statement is nothing is definite (: therefore a larger weight hole will allow for the potential to increase flare thus creating a wider footprint...thus increasing traction potential. In ball drilling there are basis but as in life nothing is exact
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I get the answer though!
Thanks both!
Luckylefty
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Thanks all for their thoughts. I've not made any new equipment changes but I'm looking at the following. DV8 Dude, Lights Out, Marvel S
What about a Marvel S with the layout suggested for the Lights Out?
My recommendation would be a Lights Out with surface at abt 2000 and laid out with the pin 1.5-2" from your pap and the weight hole 2" down the VAL....this combo with allow the ball to slow down so it doesn't shoot thru the breakpoint if you miss in and not jerk off the dry as well as close down your angles
I should add that I've had recent success with an old DV8 Hellraiser Revenge at 2000, pin above the ring finger, CG just right of the thumb (I'm right handed). The problem I have is that by game 2.5 and 3, I need to move in, and I cannot make the corner with this ball on most nights. It becomes very unpredictable in the middle of the lane as well.
My average per game at this particular house shows this struggle I have pretty clearly: 215 210 191
While surface helps, I'm basically lost as I need to move in because I can't match up.
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The Lights Out will allow to stay closer to the friction longer...the Marvel S could or more than likely create the same issue unless you smoothed the surface up but it's like having 2 drivers in the bag...
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Got it. A similar recommendation I received was for a DV8 Dude, fwiw, but I don't really expect input on that one in the Storm forum :)
I will probably put holes in a Lights Out this afternoon following the specific layout recommendation here. My pro agrees with the suggested configuration.
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The lights out with some surface is excellent.
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Thanks. I guess my concern with the LO is that it's kind of flippy in the videos I've seen, but I assume the surface/layout takes care of calming that down - but not to the point as to make it too week for a tweener?
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Lights out is not flippy at all. I have pin down 40x4 x 60 with a p3 hole and it's a smooth. Makes a hard move but not flippy.
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I am planning on trying this layout out, but my driller only uses pin and cg to pap. What would you suggest? 2x4?
PAP: 4 1/2 > 3/4 ^
rpm: 375-425
speed: 17-19 mph
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2" X 3.75" in the positive/thumb quadrant to accommodate the weight hole down
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Thanks Rico. What sitze hole do you recommend?
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1" X 2.5" deep
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Thanks much Rico. Going to try it out tonight :)
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hi ric,
i have the layout on one of my balls, but the weight hole is about an inch deep and not 2.5. if i drill the whole deeper, i will end up with negative side weight. at the moment i am at 0. should i drill the hole deeper? i am liking the reaction i have.
thanks,
rene
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Drill the hole deeper...statics are irrelevant
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Oh boy, here we go . . *runs for cover*
Drill the hole deeper...statics are irrelevant
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As long as you keep the statics within the static weight rules laid out by USBC, do it. If you're worried about statics, the deeper hole may only take out another half ounce, but the reaction will change much more with the change in shape of the weight block. Depending on the ball, 1 inch deep probably didn't even touch the core.
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My comment was not meant to incite furor or anything other than I was more keying in on the reaction than worrying about the overall statics
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Haha I know, I've just seen big discussions break out over this in the past . .
My comment was not meant to incite furor or anything other than I was more keying in on the reaction than worrying about the overall statics
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I've started many of them (:
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The key on wet dry, or on flatter patterns for that matter is to find a way to play more direct through the heads. That is why I don't like real aggressive shells. Not all pearls are necessarily bad on wet dry. Someone mentioned the Freeze. I would add the Cobalt Vibe to the list, and there are others out there. Also some solids like the IQ Tour can be set up to handle wet dry very nicely. I have mine at 4000 wet sand, with an axis hole, and it is still smooth off the dry, and lets me play further right and fairly direct.
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Best ball I have in the bag right now to combat the wet/dry is a Grip-It drilled 2x65 with a hole down the val. It's not a ball that I can go left to right with (much), but it is choice when I see too much bounce off the dry. Looking forward to using it on Sydney when they're fresh. I think I have a chance to roll it out at the hole and control the friction.
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My recommendation would be a Lights Out with surface at abt 2000 and laid out with the pin 1.5-2" from your pap and the weight hole 2" down the VAL....this combo with allow the ball to slow down so it doesn't shoot thru the breakpoint if you miss in and not jerk off the dry as well as close down your angles
What ball specs work best with this layout?
What would the dual angle numbers be?
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Your personal specs pretty well determine what the ball specs need to be and what the dual angle numbers would be. You'll have to figure out where the dual angle numbers put your fingers and that will tell you what specs you need to look for.
My recommendation would be a Lights Out with surface at abt 2000 and laid out with the pin 1.5-2" from your pap and the weight hole 2" down the VAL....this combo with allow the ball to slow down so it doesn't shoot thru the breakpoint if you miss in and not jerk off the dry as well as close down your angles
What ball specs work best with this layout?
What would the dual angle numbers be?