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Author Topic: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!  (Read 1804 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl

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"Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« on: August 19, 2006, 01:46:28 PM »
Rick and I have been posting coaching suggestions and reminders lately. With the season rapidly approaching, we are (I am speaking for Rick too ) going to try to get a few more very good suggestions out.

In this thread I want to touch on the "flat spot". NO...this is not the flat spot created when Scoot plugs a bowling ball. I am talking about the flat spot in your foward swing just before the release.

For those of you unsure what the "flat spot" is.....this is the point when the ball has reached the bottom of the swing and is essentially moving straight ahead in the release. During this point your thumb should be exiting the ball. This is very important because we are in an age of bowling balls when "hitting up" on the ball is a no no. With your thumb out of the ball at the proper time hitting up is almost impossible because as you extend your arm foward the fingers are creating the "hook, or motion, or revs".

Too accomplish an ideal flat spot it is important to have NO GRIP PRESSURE(or as little as possible). When you begin your pushaway and have extended your arm forward this is where you want gravity to take over, at no point do you want to have your elbow bent throughout your armswing. Disengaging muscles in your forearm/wrist/hand and shoulder will help in the free armswing. As you begin your forwards armswing this is where you really want to focus on your flatspot. You want your thumb exiting the ball when it is just behind your ankle. This is the area that starts the flat spot FOR MOST BOWLERS. Once your thumb has started exiting the ball you want to keep your swing long and towards the lane.
At this point this is where alot of bowlers tend to keep the ball on their thumb longer to hit up on the ball. As I mentioned earlier, the bowling balls today are so strong that there is no need to hit up on the ball....doing so often results in weak hits and solid taps.

Video may be the best way to view how your flat spot currently is.

If you can work on your flat spot the benefits will be extraordinary. When performed properly it aids in a well balanced  finishing position and a good leverage point of the release.

The season is almost here.....Legion Members are you ready?

-Carl


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Carl Hurd
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Edited on 8/20/2006 9:42 AM

Edited on 8/20/2006 10:15 AM
Carl Hurd

Austintown Ohio (Wedgewood Lanes)

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Brickguy221

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2006, 11:27:00 PM »
quote:
If you can work on your flat spot the benefits will be extraordinary. When performed properly it aids in a well balanced finishing position and a good leverage point of the release.

 


Carl, you mention coaching here. This is where you need to tell (coach) people here how to do this as many don't have a clue on what/how to do this. This is the type help that would be benefical to people in that if you guys would explain the "how to do its" and not just say you need to do this, you need to do that, etc. I can think of a lot of things to tell people what they need to do to become better bowlers, but I can't tell them how as I don't know how myself. This is the type help people need from you and Rick........Just a suggestion that I think would help people.
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SteveAustin2808

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2006, 12:07:05 AM »
YOUR TIME IS UP AND MY TIME IS NOW! YOU CAN'T SEE ME! MY TIME IS NOW!

Carl, you better believe I'm pumped up for this upcoming season!

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2006, 09:30:03 AM »
Brickguy,

Thank you for your suggestion. I am going to edit the original post and see if I can add in the proper method to accomplish a good "flat spot".

I touched on this subject because I feel it is very imporatant---however, of all of the things that can be coached via words online without watching a bowler this is far and away one of the most difficult to explain. I like the challenge though.

-Carl
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Carl Hurd
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Edited on 8/20/2006 9:42 AM
Carl Hurd

Austintown Ohio (Wedgewood Lanes)

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Tag Team Member #1

<b><i>TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!</i></b>/

Brickguy221

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2006, 10:15:13 AM »
quote:
I am going to edit the original post and see if I can add in the proper method to accomplish a good "flat spot".  


Carl, excellent job of explaining the "flat spot". This is the kind of information people need when giving a tip.......Hey, you did such a good job here that I am going to award you one...."attaboy"....lol

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Mark T. Trgovac

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2006, 04:51:57 PM »
quote:


In this thread I want to touch on the "flat spot". NO...this is not the flat spot created when Scoot plugs a bowling ball. I am talking about the flat spot in your foward swing just before the release.
 

-Carl


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Carl Hurd
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Edited on 8/20/2006 9:42 AM

Edited on 8/20/2006 10:15 AM


You gots jokes carl, but I never put a flat spot in a ball carl. It was funny but not as funny as you forgeting to glue in my grips. LOL. Nice post though.
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DukeHarding

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2006, 05:13:17 PM »
Carl,

Good post.

I've been working with Lyle Zikes on my game for the ast year.
He uses videotape analysis every session (rear, side & front).
He has pointed out that my thumb separation and flat spot is really good, and most PBA touring pros would die for it. Of course, I have a lot of other flaws in my game, like visual targeting, which is a whole other topic.

Bowling in my Sport League, I watch some of the better bowlers, and most of them have soft hands (especially HOFer Les Zikes, at 72 puts a lot of young bowlers to shame). I think developing a flat spot and softening up your hand coming through the ball is a big key to bowling well. A muscle-free swing is imperative, and a relaxed grip is also, which means you have to have a ball that fits your hand.

Takes a lot of discipline and practice to develop an effortless, muscle-free game. It always seems to come down to the "P" word...an area that bowlers neglect. Sorry, 3-6 games a week is not enough...
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2006, 10:43:24 PM »
Duke....


Practice bud. You said it exactly...most of us do not put the kind of effort into practice that the game requires.

-Carl
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Carl Hurd
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Carl Hurd

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tenpinspro

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2006, 03:17:32 AM »
quote:
 I want to touch on the "flat spot".


Of all the things we can help with, you pick "this" one?...lol  It is a very important part of our modern game but a little tricky to explain in writing vs being able to show a bowler what to do.

Definition of the "flat spot" is when our fingers are parallel to the ground in the arc of our swing or pendulum.  This should begin (like Carl states) near our ankle and continue a little forward before it starts to rise again and break the parallel plane.

Everything Carl states is correct and I'd also like to add what can happen if we don't clear our thumb quick enough.  By not releasing quick enough with our thumb, the following but not limited to can happen:

1) decrease in revs - the closer we release the fingers to the thumb, the lower amount of revs we get.  Hence why 2 finger bowlers get nothing but revs.  Try and throw a baseball while releasing your fingers and thumb simultaneously, how much "spin" can you put on that object?

2) (clockwise motion) topping or spinning the ball - If we stay in the thumb too long, I've seen many bowlers continue wrist motion and their hand ends up over the top of the ball and the back side of their hand is now facing the ceiling.  That creates a spin and that may create an ineffective shot due to a lack of reaction (depending upon the condition).

3) (counter clockwise motion) staying in the ball too long with our hand can also cause a bowler to roll over his/her gripping holes if their motion is clockwise or similar to a full roller/backup release.  This also causes for a lack of hook or reaction because we are now releasing the ball in a very upright position causing it to have very little axis rotation.

There are more variables and reactions that can oocur with a late thumb release but I'll be nice and end it here..  Feel free to ask any questions if there's anything that's unclear, thanks.
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Djarum

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2006, 08:43:20 AM »
quote:
quote:
 I want to touch on the "flat spot".


Of all the things we can help with, you pick "this" one?...lol  It is a very important part of our modern game but a little tricky to explain in writing vs being able to show a bowler what to do.

Definition of the "flat spot" is when our fingers are parallel to the ground in the arc of our swing or pendulum.  This should begin (like Carl states) near our ankle and continue a little forward before it starts to rise again and break the parallel plane.

Everything Carl states is correct and I'd also like to add what can happen if we don't clear our thumb quick enough.  By not releasing quick enough with our thumb, the following but not limited to can happen:

1) decrease in revs - the closer we release the fingers to the thumb, the lower amount of revs we get.  Hence why 2 finger bowlers get nothing but revs.  Try and throw a baseball while releasing your fingers and thumb simultaneously, how much "spin" can you put on that object?

2) (clockwise motion) topping or spinning the ball - If we stay in the thumb too long, I've seen many bowlers continue wrist motion and their hand ends up over the top of the ball and the back side of their hand is now facing the ceiling.  That creates a spin and that may create an ineffective shot due to a lack of reaction (depending upon the condition).

3) (counter clockwise motion) staying in the ball too long with our hand can also cause a bowler to roll over his/her gripping holes if their motion is clockwise or similar to a full roller/backup release.  This also causes for a lack of hook or reaction because we are now releasing the ball in a very upright position causing it to have very little axis rotation.

There are more variables and reactions that can oocur with a late thumb release but I'll be nice and end it here..  Feel free to ask any questions if there's anything that's unclear, thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
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Rick,

I'm confused with the last item. I have an extremely high track(1/8 from thumb and fingers, maybe less) but I still get around 30 - 45 degrees of axis of rotation, with almost no tilt. Is this what you are suggesting? Or are you suggesting that if you stay in the ball too long your hand is now directly behind the ball, and the ball goes end over end parallel to the lane, ie no rotation?

Dj
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2006, 09:17:10 PM »
Dj,

That is kind of what Rick means........normally when a bowler does this they end up tracking directly of the thumb hole.

-Carl

PS- Folks...this is "Tag Team Coaching" for the reason you see above....we will each pitch in and offer opinions and advice.

Feel free to message either of us if you need further info.
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Carl Hurd
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Edited on 8/21/2006 9:22 PM
Carl Hurd

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Buckwild

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2006, 09:24:42 PM »
This is what my coach is working with me on. I still have the tendency to cup the ball at release, but when I can keep it flat, I see the difference in the backend, the ball is rolling to the pocket.
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tenpinspro

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2006, 03:09:53 AM »
quote:
Or are you suggesting that if you stay in the ball too long your hand is now directly behind the ball, and the ball goes end over end parallel to the lane, ie no rotation?


Yes DJ, this is more of what I was referring to.  Rotating clockwise from a suitcase position is how we typically create the full roller release.  If we start with our hand under the ball and then rotate clockwise, that can become very flat (end over end) or can go as far as being a "backup" ball...
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Djarum

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2006, 10:44:35 AM »
Rick and Carl,

Thanks. That makes sense. I've been trying to get my gf out of this happit for some time now. She stays in the ball way to long and ends up over the thumb with her rotation.

Dj
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MC

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Re: "Tag Team" Coaching....Comin' at ya!
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2006, 03:46:41 PM »
Rick,
I think that this is kind of what you worked with me about, two years ago. And you described it as throwing a knuckleball down the lane. So my thumb and fingers were essentially coming out of the ball close to the same time. But that description was the mental image that clicked with me. Hope it can help someone else as much.

Mike
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